Less is More: How to Declutter Your Life, Not Just Your Closet with Home Organizing Pro Shira Gill
Show Snapshot:
Are you drowning in to-do lists, overflowing inboxes, and a calendar that feels like it's about to explode? Welcome to a game-changing conversation with Shira Gill, the NYT-bestselling author and home organizing expert who champions the idea that minimalism isn't about having three t-shirts and an all-beige home—it's about being radically intentional with your time, energy, and life.
In this episode of A Certain Age, Shira breaks down her revolutionary approach to life editing from her latest book “Lifestyled” which shares practical tools that go waaay beyond decluttering your closet. Learn how to audit everything from your digital subscriptions to your social connections, create meaningful systems that actually work, and develop habits that give you back your peace of mind.
Whether you're feeling stuck, exhausted, or just ready for a refresh, this conversation will inspire you to take small, powerful steps towards the life you really want. Shira’s first guest appearance on A Certain Age was one of our most downloaded shows in 2023. Now, she helps us reimagine what's possible in 2025!
Show Links:
Follow Shira
Shira’s Book:Lifestyled: Your Guide to a More Organized & Intentional Life
Quotable:
What do I want to keep and what do I want to release? You can start fresh at any point.
Transcript:
Shira Gill [0:00]
I like to think of it as auditing your whole life, especially at midlife, which is what you focus on. It's such a ripe opportunity to take a step back and say, "What do I want to keep and what do I want to release?" That can include anything from your clothes to your belief system, your friendships, your credit cards—it's all up for grabs. And you can start fresh at any point.
Katie Fogarty [0:34]
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Beauties, if you feel like your home, closets, calendar, and life are jam-packed, bursting at the seams, threatening to swallow you up in a tsunami of to-dos, do not go anywhere. Today's show is going to supercharge you and guide you to a more organized and intentional life.
And best of all, we are welcoming back one of your favorite guests and mine. Shira Gill is a globally recognized home organizing expert and the bestselling author of the books "Minimalista" and "Organized Living." She's inspired thousands of people to clear clutter from their homes and lives, and developed a process and toolkit that applies to anyone, regardless of budget, space, or lifestyle.
She is here today to share ideas from her latest book, "Lifestyle: Your Guide to a More Organized and Intentional Life." This book goes way beyond closet cleaning and decluttering. Shira has distilled all the wisdom she has gained from helping tens of thousands of people organize their homes and days to create an absolute gem of a guide that offers tools and practices for living intentionally and taking responsibility for creating the life you want. I am so excited to explore this with her today. Welcome back, Shira.
Shira Gill [1:55]
Hi! Thank you for having me back. I'm so happy to be here.
Katie Fogarty [1:59]
I am so excited. You were one of the top five downloaded shows in 2023 when you first came on to talk about "Organized Living." I know why! You were right up there with Stacy London—you were in very good company. You were two of my five most popular shows, and I know why. We all need tools and ideas for managing the overwhelm of modern life.
You are now out with your third book. You've written three books in a row! We'll need to talk about how you made that happen. What inspired you to write "Lifestyle," and how is it different from your other books?
Shira Gill [2:39]
Yes, so I'm a home organizer. I have spent so much time with people in their homes and their natural habitats. What I started noticing, based on my experience in the field and just in my own personal life, was that most of us are so overwhelmed—we're overextended, over-scheduled, exhausted.
So my new book "Lifestyle" is designed for busy people with overstuffed schedules, including myself, who crave a simpler, more organized life but feel overwhelmed. The impetus for writing this was that I was kind of struggling with some imposter syndrome myself, where I felt like, "I'm an organizing expert, I teach how to edit and organize based on principles of minimalism, but my life and my calendar and my schedule are overstuffed." The light bulb moment came thinking, "What if I applied the same skills and toolkit that I've used to help people edit and organize their homes to their life?"
Katie Fogarty [3:47]
I love that. First of all, you had me at "organize your life." And you know, I know from reading your books that you have such a wonderful, clear, simple way of communicating your information. Your first book was "Minimalista"—I remember seeing it on the shelves at Anthropologie. You have really developed your own definition and brand of minimalism, and I would love, as a stage setting, to hear you define what you think minimalism is and how minimalism has actually maximized your life.
Shira Gill [4:17]
I love that question, especially because people are so freaked out by the concept of minimalism. I think typically when I even say to people "I'm a minimalist," they'll instantly go, "Oh, so do you have like three T-shirts and a fork?"
Katie Fogarty [4:35]
Right! Like, "I'm a minimalist, I'm not a monk!"
Shira Gill [4:38]
Yeah, I don't live down by the river in a van with one T-shirt! So I have defined my own kind of flexible, practical version of minimalism. I define it as being radically intentional, and not just with the things you own, but with how you spend your time, your resources, and your energy.
Ultimately, minimalism is really about clarifying what's important to you and cutting the clutter and distractions that stand in the way. So I focused the majority of my career on how we look at the things that we own and our physical possessions. And now in this book, I'm really looking at your entire life, from your friendships and relationships to your finances to your wellness and your daily routines.
Katie Fogarty [5:27]
I so enjoyed immersing myself in this book. I was reading it at exactly the right time. I feel overwhelmed—like you said, I have a lot going on, three kids, two jobs. The calendar is starting to fill up not only with holiday things but stuff that's looming for January.
I loved everything that you shared in this book, and we're going to explore as much of it as possible. A minute ago, you said something that I love—that minimalism is just being radically intentional about what it is that we allow into our lives, which feels so beautiful and like an offering that I want for myself. You know, minimalism is really about defining your own version of what is enough. But this is a serious question, Shira: when we are absolutely overwhelmed with everything that's going on in our day-to-day, how do we carve out the space to sit quietly and define our version of what's enough? How do we create the space to bring more intentionality to our days? Because that's the jumping-off point that we need.
Shira Gill [6:28]
I mean, that question is real, right? Because most of us don't have the time to go on a solo retreat and spend all of the time musing and considering, because we're so sucked into the daily grind. So I am all about the quick win and the micro action.
When it comes to this, I'm all about tiny little habit shifts. For those who feel completely underwater, think of even just one tiny thing that you can do to create a little more spaciousness in your life. That could be taking a 15-minute solo walk every morning before you get into the grind. It could be writing down one thing that's important to you—a priority—before you get into your day.
It could even be starting with some big questions. Like, I always say, if you ask better questions, you get better answers. So I like to ask people, "What's being neglected that you care about deeply?" I think just by planting that question, even if you don't have the answer yet, just kind of almost planting it as a meditation, something will come to you.
Like, whenever I ask people, they have the most unique answers. Some people say, "I just miss reading. I don't have time to read a book anymore." And so then it's looking at, well, maybe there is a really tiny way you can incorporate reading into your life, even if it's curling up on a Sunday for 15 minutes before you make breakfast for your family. But just identifying and having the awareness of what you're lacking, what you feel like you're longing for and yearning for, is actually the first step, even before you take any action.
Katie Fogarty [8:16]
I love that so much. I think that question of "what is missing"—you know, I think that every listener right now who's hearing us have this conversation already knows their answer. They've filled in the blank and they've said, this notion of reading, or "I'm really craving time with my old friend that I haven't seen," or "I'm just really craving the ability to get in my car and not feel stressed out because it's full of all the crap that I drag around."
I love this notion also of quick wins, because I think it's so smart, and this sort of habit stacking that allows you to just do more and do better. When I spent time with your book a few days ago, diving into it, I opened a drawer that I use all the time—every single day, multiple times a day—in my kitchen. It's full of these baking dishes, which is what is supposed to be in there, but what's also in there is like 90,000 plastic spoons and forks that come with delivery.
And I'm telling you, like, every time I look at it, I think, "Oh..." and none of us plan to use those. I keep thinking, "Why are they here?" And I read your book, and I'm like, "You know what I could do? I could put those in the recycling bin." And I just picked them up and threw them away. I was like, "Why didn't I do that a year ago?"
Shira Gill [9:26]
Yes, I love this! The 15-minute win!
Katie Fogarty [9:30]
It wasn't even that—it was like a second win! I'm not kidding you, I opened the cabinet drawer earlier today, and I felt such a sense of peace and accomplishment because I'm like, "You know what? I took those plastic spoons and I got rid of them."
Shira Gill [9:46]
Yes, that's your feel-good win! And I get the feedback constantly from people that things become so huge in their head, and then when they finally knock it out, like your example, or like the junk drawer or cleaning out the refrigerator, or making the dreaded phone call—it typically is less than 15 minutes. But if you think about the time suck of how much time and energy you've spent hating that drawer or being inconvenienced by it, if you can just knock it out in a few minutes, it's such a feel-good win.
Katie Fogarty [10:18]
It is such a feel-good win. And also, you know, because sometimes—I at least do this, and I'm assuming I'm not so special, I feel like other people probably do this too—is that when I open that drawer, I don't just think, "Oh, it's full of plastic spoons no one's using." I think to myself, "Why is everything so messy, and why can't I be more organized?" And it becomes something bigger than about plastic spoons. All of a sudden, it's like a referendum on myself as a person versus, you know, where I'm like, "How am I the person that's got a drawer full—" I mean, it's just so silly.
And now I feel like, okay, it is small, digestible stuff. So that's one of the best things about this book, actually—it's so easy to read, move through, understand. It's just like it practices what it preaches, right? It's just so well organized, and it gives you these tools. It makes everything feel accessible.
Shira, we're heading into a quick break. When we come back, I want you to share with our listeners how you organize this book. We'll be back in just a minute.
Katie Fogarty [11:43]
Shira, we are back from the break, and when we went into it, I was raving about how your book is like a living example—it's like a paper example of the work that you practice. It's very well organized. It's so easy to move through. It's kind of broken into two big sections. And I would love for you to just quickly share with our listeners how the book's organized, what they can expect to find in it when they read it.
Shira Gill [11:43]
Yes, absolutely. So as you said, the book is in two big sections. Section One I call "The Toolkit." And the toolkit breaks down these three core tools that I identified as basically working in tandem to be able to solve any challenge or problem.
Tool One is adjusting volume. So that's just kind of cranking up the volume or turning it down on the quantity or capacity of something. That could be subscriptions, memberships, social plans—you name it.
Tool Two is creating systems. So I define a system as an organized framework or strategy that solves a problem. Quick examples would be like automating your workouts or setting up an inbox for your mail and bills and to-dos.
And then number three is implementing habits. And the kind of epiphany I had as an organizer a few years ago was you can edit your heart out, you can declutter, you can organize, you can set up systems, but if you don't implement good, consistent habits, even the most brilliant system will be rendered useless. So enter habit formation. In this section, I kind of break down why habits are so difficult. I get into a whole host of habit helpers and ways to reduce friction and make it easier to build or break a habit.
So Part One is this toolkit—you'll get really well acquainted with these three tools. And then Part Two of the book is "The Practice." And that is like the hands-on, real-life implementation of these tools in all areas of your life. I have a dedicated chapter to kind of all of the big buckets of life, including health and wellness, home and environment, your career and your finances, spirituality and personal growth, and I show in real application how you can apply these tools to streamline and simplify everything from your overstuffed calendar to your to-do list to even your friends and relationships.
Katie Fogarty [13:57]
It really touches across all these different aspects of life that happen every day, that you move through, that you need to pay attention to. It's so rich with wonderful examples right out of the gate. I love the chapter on adjusting volume, which you just described as sometimes we think, "Oh, I'm so disorganized." But the reality is, like, we just simply have too many things to manage. No one could be managing all these things.
And so rather than thinking, "Oh, I'm not doing it right," you're doing the best you can. But the problem is, there's just too much. And if you can't keep track of all the things in your home, or if you're losing things in your inbox, or if you are dropping things off your calendar by accident, you simply have too many things going on. And this shouldn't be a revolutionary concept—it feels like common sense. But for me, it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, like, sometimes there are simply too many things that are going on in your life. No amount of organizing is going to solve for that. So maybe you could talk a little bit about that. How do we just have fewer things so that we don't feel as overwhelmed and stressed out?
Shira Gill [15:06]
Yeah, and I do just want to emphasize how right you are that most of our problems are volume problems. They're not system problems. And I think in my work as an organizer, I probably spend 90% of my time with clients and in my teaching on helping people edit and pare down and make decisions. Because if you can really reduce the volume in your home and your life, there's so much less to manage and to juggle that the organizing is so much less of an important feature.
It's really interesting because people always come to me and say, "I've got to get organized. I've got to set up systems." I always start with the volume. So a few examples that I outline in the book and in my own life are subscriptions, memberships, all of the digital clutter that can make us feel like we're drowning. It's all optional. And I think sometimes it doesn't feel optional because we—
Katie Fogarty [16:08]
[Laughing] I'm like, we do this to ourselves!
Shira Gill [16:13]
Yes! So, like, I made the decision a few years ago to delete every single social media app except for one that I use for business. So I use Instagram—it's my main hub because it's visual, I like it, it works for my business. I literally deleted everything else. And I cannot tell you how liberating it was. It felt a little scary at the time, like I was thinking, "What's gonna happen if I delete Facebook?" And I'm here to tell you nothing happened except that I had a little more time.
So I like to think about doing an audit, just the way you would take everything out of your closet and decide what you want to put back. When it comes to digital technology, look at all of the different things that are taking up space in your brain. For me, it was apps, subscriptions, memberships, my inbox, junk mail, marketing emails. And know that you can say no to as many of those things as you want.
So I like going on kind of a "mission unsubscribe," where I just sit and unsubscribe from a million things. And it feels like going to the spa—even if you spend 15 minutes—
Katie Fogarty [17:29]
A lot cheaper, too, by the way!
Shira Gill [17:31]
It is a lot cheaper to just delete things! So that's a big one, right? Just questioning all of those things—even like the news you consume. Where do you want to get your news from, and why do you feel like you like where you're getting news from? Or are you just digesting everything under the sun that plops into your inbox?
I have deleted almost all of my news apps and just have one centralized place that I trust. Influencers that you follow, brands that you follow—it's really an opportunity to kind of take a step back and reset. And I like to think of it as auditing your whole life, especially at midlife, which is what you focus on. It's such a ripe opportunity to take a step back and say, "What do I want to keep and what do I want to release?" And that can include anything from your clothes, your belief system, your friendships, your credit cards—like it's all up for grabs, is how I think about it. And you can start fresh at any point.
[18:38] Katie: I want to grab my phone right now and start deleting things off of it. I won't—I will be spending some time with it when we're done with this. But you're absolutely right, this notion that we get to choose. For some reason, the way life gets organized sometimes, we forget that, and we feel like we have to read everything, we need to be doing all the things, buying all this.
Actually, I'm pretty good about not buying stuff. I'm somebody who likes to hand things down from one kid to the next and then pass it along to girlfriends over the years. I love to move things through. I try not to buy too many things. But I'm not good about—right now, I'm going to get better after I continue to work with all your materials—I have three inboxes. They are overflowing with stuff. I sign up for things, I'm following five different news outlets. I don't need any of that, but I'm going to take your suggestion and start to put myself on a little bit of a diet.
[19:15] Shira: Yeah, it's great to know that we can be in charge, because I think when we feel overwhelmed, recognizing that we've got agency, that there are small actions we can take, really feels so valuable.
[19:25] Katie: So in the second section of your book, "The Practice," which is where we're taking these three big ideas—these three big tools that you share with us at the beginning—we apply them across these key and important life factors: health and wellness, our home, our relationships, our personal development, our career.
I want to start by talking about the health and wellness section. This section helps us edit our feelings of overwhelm and the feelings of too many choices in our health and wellness. You said something that I flagged. I wrote it down because I loved it. You said, quote, "In the health and wellness industry, there are so many messages focused on dieting and restriction. Avoid alcohol and caffeine. Say no to gluten, toss the sugar, curb screen time before bed"—cue the sad trombone.
[20:05] Katie
I literally laughed out loud when I read that, because I was like, you know, it does sometimes feel like, yeah, it's so prescriptive. "You must do this and don't do that," and it is a bit of a sad trombone. And we are heading into the new year. We want to march into this new year to the beat of a happier drummer, right?
[20:25] Shira
So organizing and minimalism is not always about editing or removing. Sometimes it's additive. How do we curate this feel-good toolkit for our health and wellness as we move into 2025? What are some easy systems, things that feel joyful and not overwhelming?
[20:45] Shira: So I really focused on this in the book because I personally hate restriction of any kind. I don't like being told, "No, you can't do something." And so I started thinking about what are the things that are additive for our health and wellness, that are good? And so many popped into my brain—like, getting more sleep is always a good thing. Getting more movement is always a good thing. Eating more green vegetables.
And so I started thinking, if instead of telling ourselves "I can't do this, I can't eat that, I have to cut this," if we instead just focus on what are three simple things that I want to add or optimize to improve my overall health and wellness? That could be something for your mental health, like adding a coaching session or a therapy session or going to a support group. It could be adding a weekly hike with a girlfriend, which kind of kills two birds with one stone, right? You're moving your body and you're getting social contact and connection and intimacy.
So what I would say to your listeners is, as we move into the holiday season, think about between one and three things that you want to add that feel good to you. They're not prescriptive, they're not limiting—they're the opposite. They feel freeing and liberating and energizing. For me, it's always like, I just want to get outside every day and take a walk. I know that that's always available to me. It doesn't cost any money. I don't have to drive anywhere.
[22:15] Shira: So I also would stress, because this is a book about overwhelm, make sure that the things that you're choosing are easy and accessible and don't feel like they're adding more to your plate, but feel like they're actually freeing up more energy.
[22:30] Katie: So take a walk, don't train for a marathon. It doesn't have to be hard or big or sexy or a gigantic, audacious project to make a real difference. And I love what you said, because it reminded me of something that I've seen kind of in social media, and we talk about on the show sometimes—it's sort of a midlife mindset, or just the realization that you don't have to do something, you get to, right?
And sometimes we feel like we have to exercise, but we get to take a walk, we get to do something that's stress-busting. So when we reframe that and make it simple, it feels less overwhelming, and it feels like it's available for our mental health. So you had so many—we just shared that the practice section covers things like health, home, relationships, career. Was there a particular chapter that you really loved writing?
[23:20] Shira: Yeah, I think for me, it was the relationship section. I had never really thought, previous to writing this book, about how to apply minimalism to relationships. I think coming out of COVID, there were so many awakenings that I had around curating my ideal connection cadence.
[23:40] So I'm a very, very social person, and I'm a yes-sayer. And it was so interesting because at the beginning of COVID, when we were in lockdown, I remember feeling like my whole central nervous system kind of relaxed, and I felt so much more focused and grounded and creative. I realized that I had really not been creating enough solo time for myself to kind of re-energize and recharge.
[24:05] And in researching this book, I talked to so many people about like, "What would your ideal—I call it a connection cadence—look like?" Like, meaning how often during a given week are you alone and recharging? How often are you with your partner or a good friend, and how often are you at like a social or networking event?
[24:25] And it was so fascinating because people's answers were so all over the map, right? Because we're all completely wired differently. And so I found it to be the most helpful exercise for me in the book of just kind of jotting down my ideal for each week—like I need to be alone every day, I've got to find some alone time—whereas my husband needs to be with people all day as often as possible. He literally combs the streets talking to strangers!
[24:50] Katie: Hysterical! He's like, "The dog again! I need to talk, I need to bump into some people!"
[24:55] Shira: And I'm like, in a dark corner, like, "I just need a minute to myself." So for me, that was really, really informative to just look at: What are the needs around kind of the ideal connection cadence when it comes to all of those things? And how can I bake them into my life? How do I make sure I have alone time every day, even though I'm a busy working mom juggling so much? How can I make sure that I prioritize time with my husband, which often, honestly, is the first thing to get lost in the shuffle?
[25:25] How do we automate it? Make it easy, make it fun? And likewise, even something as simple as asking yourself, like, how many parties or events do I want to go to in a given month, and how many parties or events do I want to host in a given year? I now kind of map that out for myself at the beginning of a new year or a new season, and just that kind of intentional planning has made it so much more enjoyable and has really diminished the "I feel like I used to go to a lot of things in an obligatory way just because I felt like I had to." Now I'm really deciding on purpose: What do I want to go to and do I like my reasons, and what can I say no to in a gracious way?
[25:55] Katie: It's so smart to do this sort of pre-thinking, because it allows you to assess. And I remember reading this chapter in the book, and at one point, you suggested to the reader that you could try this on for size. So if somebody is very busy and they're out every weekend and they want to practice only doing two weekend activities, they could try that for a month or two months.
[26:20] And then you can reevaluate, which, again, feels like common sense, but I thought that was a really useful suggestion to the reader that like, "Hey, try this on for size." If you miss being out every weekend, put it back in. It doesn't have to be forever.
[26:35] And I think it's also what you were sharing about how you recognize it, even though you love people and you're social, that you need this alone time. I think it's important for us all to recognize that our needs change from year to year and season to season, and that even though I was somebody whose weekend used to begin on a Wednesday in college—like I'm not that person any longer.
[27:00] And I do need yoga and downtime, and I need reading, I need all sorts of stuff. And sometimes, if we're just kind of clip-clopping along at our old connection cadence, and we're like, "Huh, why am I feeling exhausted?" It could be because we're in a different season that we haven't allowed ourselves to develop new habits within. Do you feel like you have changed what you sort of prioritize with your minimalist approach to life? Has it changed at all as you've aged, or were you always this person?
[27:30] Shira: No, I used to be a real people pleaser, and I had a really hard time saying no to anything. And I think actually, even just through the practice of researching and writing this book, I've become like a plus no-sayer and boundary setter.
[27:45] Katie: Oh my God, I love it!
[27:48] Shira: I think it's really, really profoundly shifted how I show up, how I protect my space. I even shared in the book a bunch of scripts that I use for different scenarios where people want a yes from you and you want to give a no. Because I really do think that there is a way of gracefully and with lots of love and care saying no, and I've practiced it so much that now it really rolls off the tongue.
[28:00] Katie: So let's hear it! Can we hear one? Would you be willing to share one?
[28:05] Shira: Yeah, I mean, so like, just the most easily applicable one for any scenario is just saying, "That sounds so incredible, and I'd love to help, but I am at full capacity right now, and I cannot take on anything else." So I use that all the time.
[28:20] Katie: I'm writing this down!
[28:25] Speaker: Someone saying, "Have you seen my inbox?" You know, right?
[28:30] Shira: Well, this happened because, as an organizing expert, I get asked for a lot of favors from a lot of people, and I love to help. And yet, you know, there's only so much capacity that we each have.
[28:45] And so I remember, a few years ago, I was asked to chair the auction fundraiser for my kids' school, which really is a full-time job in and of itself. And when I kind of replied like, "Oh, you know, I wish I could help but I have a full-time job," the response that I got back was, "Well, the person who did it last year has three kids and a corporate job."
[29:10] And so this is what sparked the answer that I now have practiced a lot, which is, "I'm so sorry. I'm just at full capacity." And I think nobody can really argue with what your full capacity is. I have not had anyone challenge me on that answer yet.
[29:30] Katie: Well, okay, everyone—I hope you guys are all like, if you're driving a car, don't write it down, but everybody else who's listening to this needs to grab a pen and paper and write that down, or, better yet, buy Shira's book, because that script and other great ones are in there as well.
[29:45] And I do remember that auction story from the book when I read it, and I was like, my kids are a little bit older now. I think yours are teens, but mine are—they're 24, 21 and 17. So I haven't been asked to do that yet, but I will share there are a lot of moms who listen to the show, and they are organizing the senior prom. And on behalf of anyone who goes to school, my son is doing that. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[30:10] Shira: Yes, it is the Lord's work. It's a really hard job, but—
[30:15] Katie: We all have to pick and choose where we're spending our time and exactly—you're doing other things and they're enjoying that, and then they will pass the torch to somebody else.
[30:25] Katie: So your book is full of so much practical wisdom. There are a lot of little phrases that readers will just sort of absorb and put into their own organizing and life editing vocabulary once they spend time with this delightful book. You know, it's the quick win, it's the micro actions, it's the "try this," and you have an organizing cheat code, right, that readers can use to simplify anything in their homes or lives. And I would love if you could give us a quick rundown and a few examples from your own home and life.
[30:55] Shira: Ooh yeah, that's fun. Okay, so with adjusting volume, one thing I've been really loving is, I call it practicing the rule of one. So it's kind of the fewer better philosophy, like, "I'm gonna just have one thing, but it's going to be the nicest thing."
[31:15] So an example would be, I used to lose my sunglasses all the time, and I had a bunch of, like, cheapo sunglasses. Now I have one pair of sunglasses that are really nice that I invested in, and I keep them in my purse in a really nice case, and I have not lost them, and it's been years. So that's like a really specific example.
[31:35] Katie: That's such a great example!
[31:38] Shira: I do it with even like my kids' water bottles. I just find, if you invest in one, you take better care of it. It's easier to track. So in our home, everybody gets one nice water bottle, one pair of sunglasses. We don't have umbrellas anymore because we lost them all. But if I were to invest I would have one.
[31:55] Katie: You live in California!
[32:00] Shira: I know, you probably have less need of—you're not in Seattle, where you might have—
[32:05] Katie: True, you might still have all your umbrellas.
[32:08] Shira: We don't have real weather here.
[32:15] Shira: So, rule of one and again—like I apply that to even my social media or my news, I'm always looking at, how can I pick one less but better? Then with systems, here's like a really simple one: I just realized one of the things that got lost in the shuffle of my life was seeing certain good friends that I really cared about. Because scheduling seems really difficult for adults with full lives, right?
[32:40] And so we started a system where we meet once a month at the exact same restaurant for lunch, and as we wrap up the lunch before we go, we just get out our calendars and schedule the next one. So there's never any like, text or email back and forth, or "this date or that date." We know that we're going to see each other once a month, and it's just been this kind of lovely thing to look forward to, like, same place, same time, see you next month. Again, like baking in the things that are important to you.
[33:10] Katie: That's so smart. That's so smart. By the way, I'm gonna say I'm still pretending I'm blonde, and so when I leave the hair salon, I always schedule the next appointment, because it's like, I don't want to have to think about it. Like, you just, boom, you're doing it, you're done, you're out the door, and you know when you're coming back. So I love exactly—you did it with your friends. It's so smart.
[33:35] Shira: Yeah, do it with your dates. And then the third one for habits—this one habit I've been practicing has really changed my life. I think I'm gonna write a newsletter about it. It's so simple: In the morning, when I wake up, I write down one thing that would make today great.
[33:55] And what I found is the exercise of doing this is so powerful because you're assuming that your day is going to be great.
[34:00] Katie: Yes, there's imagination. It lies ahead!
[34:05] Shira: It's coming for me! I make my things really, really micro. So like today it was, there's a matcha latte that I really like from a very specific cafe. And I had a packed day, and I was like, "You know what? I have this little window—I'm gonna go treat myself to a muffin and a matcha," and it's this little, tiny thing that just feels like a treat for myself.
[34:30] And so scheduling a treat for yourself every day first thing, I really think it's a game changer. And I think the other thing about it is that many of us are used to setting big goals and not achieving them, or letting ourselves down. I think by setting a teeny tiny, feel-good micro goal every morning and doing it, it sends this message like "I am a person who sets and achieves goals. I do follow through. I do take care of myself." So that's been a big one for me, that habit.
[35:00] Katie: I am taking that on because I do wake up in the morning, I do three like, sort of—I think of three things that I'm grateful for, because it sets me in a sort of a better head space for gratitude. But this idea that you're setting this desire for greatness, for something like that's going to be joyful, something to look forward to in your day—it's so smart. It's even better.
[35:25] I mean, gratitude is very important. I think we should all be practicing it. But this notion that something special lies ahead of me—and for sometimes, for me, it's just like getting into the bed at the end of the day with a great book.
[35:40] I also sometimes treat myself to going into—my town has an absolutely marvelous library. My mom's a librarian and I love going in and just like looking at all the books and just pulling one out or reading a magazine. These things don't have to be big or sexy or expensive, you know, just sort of squeezing in the muffin or the latte or, you know, browse through your favorite bookstore or libraries. And libraries are actually probably smarter because we don't have to buy all the books, although my problem is I do both—
[36:05] Shira: Hilarious! Well, you know what's funny? I did a poll on Instagram asking, "What do people want more time for? Like, if you had more free time, what would you do?" And I swear to you, like 90% of the responses were "read more books." I thought that was so fascinating.
[36:20] Katie: You know what? It doesn't surprise me, honestly, because I think reading is so transportive. You know, it just sort of takes you out of your day-to-day. It allows you to travel the world and time, and you know, history in ways that you can't necessarily get. You can read a book and all of a sudden be on the beach in Portugal, or you can be on a ship during a different time period or in a different place, and that's so—it's so powerful.
[36:45] So anyone who's really time-crunched and can't read those books should hop over to my sister podcast, the Midlife Book Club, where I interview authors about their books. Yes, you can, if you're not reading them, you can at least listen to authors discuss them, because that's been an incredible—that's also why I'm a little overwhelmed with my inbox. I got a lot going on!
[37:05] Shira: And I'm a big fan of that podcast, so—
[37:08] Katie: Oh, thank you! So it's super fun. All right, Shira, we're coming to the end of our time, but before we do, one of the things that I'm telling you and my listeners is, in the spirit of editing things out, I'm no longer closing these shows with speed rounds. This is the last month of December 2023, and I'm going to be starting to take a listener question to close every show.
[37:30] So for this show, we're going to end with my last question for you, and I would love—I'm putting you on the spot here. This has been a phenomenal conversation. As I share, this book "Lifestyle" is jam-packed with so much concrete, actionable, and not overwhelming advice. But if we were to give the listeners who have hung in with us to the end of this conversation today three action items, three quick hits that we could offer for them to declutter their homes and lives, what are three actionable ideas that they could wake up tomorrow and do or do this afternoon?
[38:05] Shira: Ooh, okay, I love that. You know, I'm all about the quick win.
[38:10] Shira: Okay, number one, I would say, declutter the home screen on your phone and move all of the apps to the second page, so that you just have a picture of something that you love to look at on your home screen of your phone, and it feels calming rather than over-stimulating. That's number one.
[38:30] Number two, I would say, automate something you want to do more of. So that could be yoga, it could be reading, as we discussed, a date night, a friend walk, but identify something that you wish you were doing more of, and then automate it and make it a repeat date on your calendar so it's baked in.
[38:50] And the last thing, number three, I would say, kind of conversely, identify something that you want to do less of, and take it off your list. Take it off your calendar, put it in your donate bag, whatever that thing is—identify one thing that you want to get moving from your life and practice letting go.
[39:10] Katie: Three fantastic pieces of advice, and anyone who's listening has got a drawer full of plastic spoons that you don't need—boom, okay, that is the first thing you're doing. Oh my gosh, this has been so much fun. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners keep following you and your work?
[39:25] Shira: Yeah, so the easiest is just to head over to my website, which is just my name, shiragill.com. I have tons of free resources, there's inspiration, links of my favorite things, a free community and newsletter, and of course, links to all of my books. So that's kind of my hub. And also on Instagram, where I share lots of 15-minute wins and daily ways to streamline and so much.
[39:50] Katie: That's at @ShiraGill—so much fantastic content. And anyone who's in the New York or the tri-state area, Shira's book is coming December 3. It's a phenomenal gift for yourself, and it's a phenomenal gift for the people in your life.
[40:05] But in New York on December 3, Shira and I will be in conversation celebrating her book at Williams-Sonoma. Everyone is invited to attend. You can learn how to register for that over at Shira's Instagram, or at @acertainagepod, so if you're in the area, we would both love to see you.
[40:25] Thank you so much, Shira. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. And you heard it here first—in 2025, we are editing the ending of our show. We are swapping out the speed round, and we will be taking listener questions.
[40:45] So if there's something you're curious about, something you're struggling with, something that you want to share and get a new perspective on, I will be weighing in. The guests will be weighing in. So please submit your questions to katie@acertainagepod.com or come find me over on Instagram at @acertainagepod and DM me your questions there—we will brainstorm answers together.
[41:05] Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then, let's be organized and intentional about our lives. Beauties, thank you!