Cookbook Author Melina Hammer Talks Reinvention and Recipes for a Nourished Life
Show Snapshot:
Meet Melina Hammer, bestselling cookbook author and award-winning food photographer, chef, and owner of Catbird Cottage, a B&B in Hudson Valley, New York. We cover giving yourself permission to reinvent the tactile and collaborative pleasure of creating sumptuous meals and cozy fall recipes for both a quiet night at home and for festive holiday entertaining.
Melina shares ideas on hyperlocal food, foraging, and ingredients not to miss from her cookbook A Year at Catbird Cottage: Recipes for a Nourished Life.
Get ready to drool!
In This Episode We Cover:
From metalsmith to cookbook author—how Melina evolved a creative career.
Giving yourself permission to reinvent.
How midlife confidence can fuel a new act.
Pollinator gardens, heirloom vegetables, and birdsong—the beauty of Catbird Cottage.
The solace and serenity of being connected to nature.
Mouthwatering food ideas from braised short ribs, crowd-pleasing nibbles platters, pickled aromatics, and a homemade sourdough cracker recipe* not to miss.
*Find the recipe below.
Looking for new culinary inspiration? Try foraging, hyperlocal ingredients, and fresh ways to use old favorites like Parmesan cheese.
Entertaining and tablescape ideas, and a serving ware piece to elevate your food presentation.
Show Links:
Melina’s Website
Melina’s Instagram
Catbird Cottage Instagram
Melina’s Cookbook: A Year at Catbird Cottage: Recipes for a Nourished Life
Melina’s sourdough cracker recipe:
MAKES 2 SHEET PANS OF THIN CRACKERS
Ingredients
1 cup sourdough discard
1⁄2 cup all-purpose flour
1⁄2 cup rye flour
4 tablespoons salted butter, room temperature
2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh rosemary
1 teaspoon kosher salt
Extra-virgin olive oil for brushing
Flake salt for sprinkling
Cooking Steps
In a small bowl, use a dough scraper or spatula to mix the sourdough discard, the flours, butter, rosemary, and salt together until uniform. The dough should be smooth, not tacky. Divide into two, shape into rectangular blocks, and wrap each with plastic wrap. Chill for at least 40 minutes for the dough to meld.
Bring dough from the fridge 15 minutes before rolling it out. Lightly flour a piece of parchment the size of a rimmed sheet pan, unwrap the dough (reserving the plastic) and place it onto the parchment, then lightly flour the dough. Lay the plastic wrap over the dough and roll out 1⁄16 to 1⁄8 inch thick, pausing at intervals to unpeel it from the dough and re-flour it or the parchment as needed. If dough becomes smeary, chill it for 10 minutes, sandwiched between the plastic wrap and parchment on the sheet pan. Repeat all steps with the second batch of dough.
Preheat oven to 400ºF. Use a pastry brush to paint the dough with a light slick of olive oil all the way to its edges. Use a pastry cutter and cut the dough into crackers
I make larger oblong strips, and on other occasions, I make a grid of smaller, more typical cracker shapes. You must rotate whatever shapes you cut partway through baking for even browning, so keep this in mind.
Sprinkle the crackers with flake salt. If you refrigerated the crackers before baking, transfer the lot on its parchment to a pan that is not cold, then bake for 6 to 8 minutes, or until they begin to turn golden. Remove the sheet pans from the oven to rotate the crackers on each pan: less-golden shapes move to the perimeter, and vice versa.
Check at 2-to 3-minute intervals, continuing to rotate or swapping lesser-baked crackers with those more golden. Crackers will likely be done by the 12-minute mark—monitor your oven to see where the hottest zone is so you can ensure the crackers bake evenly.
Transfer any deeply golden crackers to a wire rack as the remainder finishes baking and allow all to cool fully. Crackers will keep 1 to 2 weeks wrapped in a layer of parchment, stored in a sealed container at room temperature.
NOTE: If you prefer to prep two batches and only bake one, the cracker dough can be frozen for up to 3 months, wrapped in plastic wrap, and then sealed in a resealable bag.
Quotable:
[I have} a confidence to leap, to say, ‘I'm going to figure it out,” to convince myself that I can figure things out because I've done X, Y, and Z already. I can give myself the permission to be confident… because I don't want to be paralyzed by fear.
One of the dishes I have returned to so many times are the braised short ribs and creamy beans from the winter chapter in my book. This dish is like velvet and satin and sustenance and joy.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty [0:28]:
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. A Certain Age is all about thriving in midlife, how to reinvent if needed or desired, how to make the most of the years that stretch before us, how to live a wonderful life. I’m excited to welcome a guest today who has made a life’s work of creativity, reinvention, and finding abundance, joy, and beauty all around her.
Melina Hammer is a best-selling cookbook author and award-winning food photographer, stylist, chef, and now owner of Catbird Cottage, a destination bed and breakfast in New York’s stunning Hudson Valley. After years working with the New York Times, Eating Well, Blue Apron, and others she now cooks for guests at Catbird Cottage where she grows an heirloom kitchen garden and forages wild foods, curating of-the-moment seasonal menus for weekly guests. Her most recent cookbook is A Year at Catbird Cottage: Recipes for a Nourished Life. She joins me today to talk about how to cook and live in a more connected bountiful way. Welcome, Melina
Melina Hammer [1:34]:
Thank you so much, Katie.
Katie [1:36]:
I’m really excited to have you as a guest today. We talked a little bit on our pre-call about how you live in such a beautiful part of the world, the Hudson Valley. I have a personal connection to that; it’s where my husband was born and raised, we have relatives all over the Hudson Valley and I’m really excited to dive in and learn a little bit more about how that region informs your work and your cooking.
Melina [2:01]:
I’m ready for this.
Katie [2:02]:
Let’s do it. I said at the beginning, you have a celebrated cookbook, you’ve got a very large community that both enjoys Catbird Cottage in person and online. Your current focus is food and we’re definitely going to spend the bulk of our time exploring that. But I know that you’ve worked as a metalsmith, a photographer, you had some work in film. I would love to start with a little stage setting. How did you evolve your career over the years as a maker and a creator?
Melina [2:32]:
Well, I had initially actually even earlier than the metalsmithing chapter, attended Ivy League school and realized that my plan to be an international foreign relations correspondent [Katie laughs] was the notion of an enthusiastic 18- or 19-year-old who loved travel. And when I really started to unpack the nuts and bolts of that I decided, well, maybe I’ll keep the travel aspect, but move along to something else that actually might speak more deeply to something that might satisfy my life’s pursuit.
And I actually stumbled upon metalsmithing and taking a metals class at a renowned arts university back in Detroit, my hometown. And it somehow gelled and it catalyzed what would become a little more than a decade, almost 15 years, where I went into art school, and I felt super passionate about making something from nothing. And seeing it articulated in metal meant that it would last well, well, well beyond my own lifetime so I could have some kind of mark on history or create some kind of legacy. And in addition to that, I was really connected to mythological ideas and ancient cultures and so I would use really low technology processes and form these beautiful surfaces and wearable pieces and I thought, “This is going to be my life.”
My husband and I moved to New York shortly after 9/11 and the New York I used to visit was, I felt, more intensely creative and more welcoming of a broader spectrum of creativity. And so, after 9/11 it felt like a different city in lots of ways and because I was working as a waitress or doing other kinds of odd jobs to sustain myself as I built my metalsmithing career – I was previously in Philadelphia, and I was actually gallery represented and I had pieces in Japan, and the UK, and a piece in the Smithsonian, but in New York it was a totally different ball of wax. So, after a few years of doing that kind of supplemental work, both my husband and I agreed that the tradeoffs weren’t adding up and I decided to pivot and try something that felt like it would be more commercially viable, and use the creativity that was my guiding light and apply it to something that felt like we could sustain ourselves without having to let go of a trapeze only to grab another. [Katie laughs] And yeah, well that’s the life of a freelancer.
Katie [5:34]:
Of course.
Melina [5:34]:
You almost never have a safety net and how do you find ways to retool the skillset or refine what you have accessible to you so that it could be adaptable to any one of a number of things. And initially as I was letting go of metalsmithing, I felt intensely guilty because I thought, "Oh my goodness, this is my deepest passion and I’m going to be trying on a new hat.” When in fact, once I really seized on doing food photography... And let me say, it wasn’t only food photography at the outset, and naively at the early stages, it was me thinking, “Oh, I have a finer art background. I know colors and textures and relationships to forms; I can do styling and the photography all together.”
And in fact, I was missing a key ingredient that very gratefully, I was able to bring into the fold fairly immediately for a few certain reasons. But I didn’t have discernment, discernment and ingredients and discernment of a culinary foundation. That came, thankfully, rather quickly to follow. But the industry felt like, okay, this is something I could latch onto and feel like there’s lots of room for expansion.
Katie [7:04]:
I love that you gave yourself permission to try something that you didn’t know how to do 100%. Sometimes I feel that I myself have experienced this, the trap of perfectionism. You want things to be perfect before you get going, before you try and that you were a little bit naïve to what you didn’t know but that allowed you to get started.
Melina [7:29]:
Yes, for myself I don’t have the circumstances that you described. For me, it’s always... It’s funny because I can be naïve in that mindset, but it really gives me a confidence to leap, to say, “I’m going to figure it out.” If there’s some piece, something I can anchor myself to, I can find ways to convince myself that I can figure the other aspects out because I’ve done XYZ already, or I’ve done this so far and therefore I can give myself the permission to be confident so that I can say, “You know what? This part feels right and let me focus on that, and then make whatever other transitions I need to make,” which aren’t easy, and often very nuanced, right, [Katie laughs] but still doable. And it’s so important to do that because otherwise, there’s a sort of stagnation or fear and I don’t ever want to be paralyzed by fear because I’ve been in those positions and it’s really unfulfilling.
Katie [8:33]:
I love that you took that leap. It’s interesting because your previous in jobs in metalsmith were something that were very concrete, now you work in a more ephemeral medium; we create food, and then we consume it, and we eat it. It’s interesting that you’ve made that jump. Your cooking work is very much linked the Catbird Cottage. I know that you offer eating events and curated dinners and cooking workshops. I would love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about Catbird Cottage, the landscape, and the environment in which you work and create your food.
Melina [9:11]:
I would be happy to. I want to touch on what you mentioned however, that wonderful ephemeral nature. Here it is, this irony of going from something super concrete that can last for forever to something that is incredibly temporary. But to me, in addition to that, which you’re exactly dead on with, to me in addition to that, there is this... I get to be part of facilitating someone’s special moment and therefore, their next greatest memories. And those memories are anchored in our lives for decades and decades. And in some ways, that’s even more personal, because I get to be part of your life. And that, to me, felt like this is a fair switch and kind of the same thing; creating something from nothing and being able to last for forever but out there in people’s lives in a little bit of a different way.
Katie [10:10]:
Yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s so collaborative, the way you describe it.
Melina [10:13]:
Yes! Most definitely.
Katie [10:15]:
It’s not just, here is the food that I foraged, or that I found, or purchased, that I cooked, I prepared. The meal has to be enjoyed by other people so it’s like a co creation of sorts.
Melina [10:28]:
Yes. So, we have a little Cape Cod cottage on a mossy hillside, and a beautiful winding road. There are a lot of things to fall in love with here. There is a rich ecosystem of birds and pollinators, I have installed a variety of pollinator gardens, my heirloom vegetable garden, and these things are textures and colors throughout all seasons that kind of embrace the entire landscape, really. And it is a place where it has created a real space for contemplation, and for a way to hit reset, and even a certain kind of sanctuary, for myself and for my husband Jim, and every guest who comes here. We hope that there is that opportunity and experience for them, and for the incredible vast majority of people there is this meaningful exhale in their stay here or in their dining with us for an evening. It’s really a magical and very much a collaborative experience because we get to build humanity together and that is some of the magic stuff of life, I feel.
We named the cottage Catbird Cottage because there is this North American mockingbird called the catbird, who migrates here in spring, around May and begins its lusty song to woo its mate and then have babies. They fledge and then they leave again around late September or October. The song is one of the quirkiest things and we’d never heard it before. And upon hearing it, it was as if, it was like R2D2 meets cartoon Disneyland. [Katie laughs] It was very, very much this.. .
Katie [12:35]:
Melina, I was not expecting you to say that when you described... [laughs]
Melina [12:39]:
It’s so, so quirky. Go on YouTube, find the catbird song. The males will sing to claim their territory for 10-to-15-minute stretches, and it is the cutest and sweetest and very humorous-feeling sound. And they actually can remix other bird songs so they... sometimes it’ll sound as if, "That’s part of a blue jay or part of a cardinal song,” but remixed by this quirky funny bird. And they are very curious birds; where some birds are timid or very much not interested in being around humans, catbirds want to know what you’re doing. They’re just super wry and darling, and we thought, of course, this is what the name is going to be, Catbird Cottage.
Katie [13:28]:
I absolutely love this story. I am going to google the catbird bird song and put something into the show notes so listeners can head to ACertainAgePod.com or they can hit Google themselves to figure it out.
Melina, we’re heading into a quick break but when we come back, I want to discuss more about Catbird Cottage and what is often on your menu there. We’ll be back in just a minute.
[Ad Break]
Katie [15:11]:
Melina, we’re back from the break. We went into it talking about the song from the catbird. You have painted such a gorgeous, vivid picture of where you work and live. I felt myself doing that exhale that you described that your guests get to experience.
I would love for you to share a little with us about what is often on the menu. You’ve written a cookbook that includes 100 of your different recipes, we are recording this show during the fall season. What would be on a fall Catbird Cottage menu?
Melina [15:46]:
Mmm. Always the conversation about what the menu will become begins with understanding our guests and any dietary restrictions or preferences or things people have seen whether via my Instagram page, or via my Food52 profile, or via the book. And then it’s a certain kind of collaborative effort, mostly on my end. I like a certain freedom to pull from what I’ve recently produced or finding a cadence that creates a sort of nourishment without feeling full in a heavy kind of a way. I always want someone to feel uplifted by a meal that they have here.
So, for fall, one of my favorite things is the Ultimate Nibbles Platter. This is something that anyone can recreate based on what you have personally available to you. My Ultimate Nibbles Platter and what features in the book includes an autumn olive jam, which is a wild and invasive tree berry, which tastes similar or a cross between raspberry and cranberry in a really juicy and custardy kind of a way, the texture of the jam feels very custardy. So, it’s a tart jam and it goes extremely well with a triple cream cheese that I often serve. For my personal favorite there is a local cheese and creamery, and they have a cheese called Nimbus, which is their version of this triple cream. I always joke that it’s so creamy you want to rub it on your elbows, your temples, [Katie laughs] it’s just so great.
Katie [17:33]:
Midlife women need to rub this cream everywhere, right?
Melina [17:35]:
Yeah, come on, I mean, emollients, yes. So, with that are a series of crunchy things. So, there’s spiced nuts from the book that are flecked with rosemary and nutmeg and brown sugar and cayenne. There are sourdough crackers that are beyond delicious, everybody raves about these crackers. Sometimes there’s my rye lavosh, which is sort of honey-scented, it’s super crisp. And always, always some array of pickles. Usually, I’m growing some kind of bush bean or runner bean and these, when they’re harvested young, are super crunchy and juicy. I’m using different aromatics and those combinations, along with an ultimate sort of pickley facet with the creamy and fatty category, and then the bright and the crunchy. I’m just looking to cover each of these kinds of textures and flavors. And once you address those texture and flavor layers, you have an infinitely adaptable variety.
So, the Ultimate Nibbles Platter is something where I can showcase preserves from every season for guests, and in addition to that, things that are mainstays for me, like the sourdough crackers for instance, which also have an infinite versatility, based on whatever aromatics you sprinkle onto them or the kinds of flour you decide to incorporate.
Katie [19:10]:
Now, are you making these crackers yourself? Or is this...
Melina [19:13]:
Oh yes. Everything is made by me, everything.
Katie [19:15]:
Okay. [laughs] Melina, when you say, “Oh yes,” you have to understand that some of us, you know, buy our crackers at Whole Foods, so I... [laughs]
Melina [19:22]:
Right. I mean, and there’s nothing wrong with that, and I buy crackers too. But these sourdough crackers are really special because there is a... First of all, I make sourdough bread and it’s the discard of the starter, it’s the stuff that you would otherwise toss and I come from a very frugal virtue... Frugality is a virtue, and you don’t want to waste, and why waste something when it could turn into something absolutely delicious? Never mind the fact that there’s quality because of the fermented nature of the batter, the dough that becomes it translates once it’s been baked into a cheesy, earthy, wonderful quality. And then it’s just airy and crispy, and because it’s the best cracker I’ve ever had now, it’s always part of a menu if I’m serving this platter.
But I also love my favorite crackers that I can buy from the shop too because that’s such a valuable thing when you want to entertain on a moment’s notice, and you haven’t had a chance to bake crackers. So, I respect and uphold both of those. But yeah, it’s a homemade cracker, and it's actually surprisingly easy to make, and over the years, I’ve done lots and lots of different variations on them.
Katie [20:38]:
Well, I would love to get a copy of that recipe for the show notes, and I would also encourage everybody to go buy A Year at Catbird Cottage: Recipes for a Nourished Life because I know that it’s a wealth of recipes that are like that that you can really expand your own repertoire.
When you expand your own repertoire, do you prefer to experiment? Do you love cooking old favorites? Is it a hybrid? And what are you excited about cooking now that its fall?
Melina [21:08]:
Most often, I am experimenting because I don’t feel like... This is sort of a pitfall of being a recipe developer [Katie laughs] and someone who is just saturated in food is, I don’t get to revisit a lot of things because I’m always working on creating something new. So, it’s almost always inspiration from a meal out that I might have had or something I came across in a magazine that I loved and then finding ways to riff on that. And it’s exciting because almost always, I land on something new fairly immediately and when I don’t, I just go searching on the web or paging through my catalogues of books and inevitably, something jumps out at me and it’s like, “Oh right!” Or I’m growing something, and I need to use it up, or I have something in the fridge, lurking back there and being like, “Hey, don’t forget about me, you’ve got to use this,” and finding some kind of inventive way that maybe was surprising in the end, to how delicious it became. And that is always happening for me these days because of the nature of the work that I do.
Katie [22:19]:
By the way, Melina, I have that kitchen as well. I have that kitchen where I’m like, “It’s time to make that kitchen fridge frittata,” where everything is going into it. I get excited, I buy a lot of stuff, and sometimes it’s hard to use it. So, I love that you create these crackers out of something that might be thrown away because that’s just proof, the crackers and the frittata are proof that you can make magic out of ingredients that many of us think about tossing in the trash.
Melina [22:50]:
Oh, absolutely. I even have a recipe in the book that includes the pickled aromatics and the brine from any kind of vegetable pickle in a rice and potato dish that is like, the epitome of nourishment and comfort. It’s got these custardy and soothing notes, and then it’s got these wonderful bright notes, and it is vegan, so it is adaptable broadly. You can always add more to it, like either bonito flakes or a little bit of soppressata, or tinned fish and it’s just this easy approachable dish that makes saving these little dregs of things, absolutely relevant because they become part of what shines in the finished dish.
Katie [23:45]:
You’re making my mouth water. [laughs]
Melina [23:47]:
Yay!
Katie [23:51]:
I love it. So, you are –
Melina [23:52]:
You asked a second part of the question which I’ve completely lost track of. What was it?
Katie [23:57]:
You know, that’s a good question. Oh, I know! What are you looking forward to making this fall?
Melina [24:02]:
Oh yes. Yes, yes. Well, I am very soon going to be cooking a five-course dinner from my book for just shy of 30 people. So, it’s going to be a real event, and one of the dishes I have returned to so many times that I have cooked very frequently is the braised short ribs and creamy beans from the winter chapter in my book.
Katie [24:31]:
Yum.
Melina [24:31]:
This dish is like velvet and satin, and sustenance and joy. It’s humble food, but it’s elevated food. I use a little bit of Gochujang in sort of anointing all of the vegetables, which often include fennel, shallots, beets, or kohlrabi, and deeply caramelizing these vegetables after having deeply seared the short ribs. And then it’s like a beef bourguignon but swapping these ingredients for the traditional. A lot of homemade stock goes in, red wine goes in, other aromatics go into the pot, and then all of its bubbles and simmers for an elongated period in the oven, and out comes the magic. It’s meat you can eat with a spoon. Beans are of the most humble foods you could find, and I usually put like a heel of parmesan in as they cook. And then the mixture of the two, the beans and this stew with this deeply satisfying sauce, the two combined are just fabulous. And in the end, I’m always adding bright elements because you don’t want it to feel rich and heavy, there are always herbs from the garden or wild greens, and they are absolutely zippy, bright, uplifting elements, and crucial in the mix of it all.
Katie [26:08]:
This sounds divine, and I can-
Melina [26:10]:
It is so divine.
Katie [26:11]:
I can smell it in my mind, and I am excited to get my hands on this cookbook and learn how to make this for myself. It’s interesting. My 22-year-old daughter introduced Gochujang to our kitchen. She lived and worked in Asia during a gap year after high school and came back and said, “Why isn’t this in the kitchen?” And we’ve added it, and we use it in lots of things. It would never have occurred to me to put parmesan into a dish as an enhancement for a short rib. I’m excited to learn that hack. I’m excited to explore more of what you offer in your recipes, both in your book and on Food52, which is such a phenomenal resource.
For listeners who are not familiar with it, can you quickly share what that is and why they should be spending some time there?
Melina [26:58]:
At Food52?
Katie [26:59]:
Yes.
Melina [27:01]:
So, Food52 is sort of this incredible umbrella of home goods, life hacks, home tricks, delicious recipes, and a community hotline. I have been a longtime member, and for the past two years, I have been a resident. They coined me as a Hudson Valley resident, and many of the recipes speak to the things that come in season here in the Hudson Valley, New York. But also, my interest is always to produce and deliver deeply satisfying flavor layers. You were speaking to the Gochujang and the parmesan; these are these little insertions of important punchy things that deepen and expand all of the kinds of flavors that we can enjoy. And they feel, in the end, kind of subtle, but there’s this extra something that you can't even necessarily put your finger on.
Twice a month at Food52, I create delicious recipes, trying to look at either "Here’s a way to use apples because it’s apple picking season.” Or “Oh my goodness, it’s summertime, and nobody wants to cook, so let’s make something really fast and zippy and gorgeous.” And it runs the gamut. It’s always looking at how can I make something delicious and whether it will ignite someone else’s passions? And then seeing it live in other people’s lives, in their kitchens, is the best thing ever.
Katie [28:37]:
Yeah. It’s a wonderful resource, and as we head into the holiday and entertaining season, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Kwanza, the Jewish holidays are in our future and New Year. It’s wonderful for hostess gifts. It’s a wonderful place to find recipes to kind of liven up your family standards.
I’m curious, Melina. You live in upstate New York, so much of your work is rooted in these hyperlocal and fresh ingredients. Certain Age listeners are all over the country. They come from different regions. If they don’t have access to what you have, the woods and the fields, what are ways that you would encourage people to cook more seasonally, no matter where they live or even if they live in a city or different region?
Melina [29:26]:
Well, I think that the wonderful thing is that this is applicable to wherever you are. If you’ve got a community garden or if there’s some sort of notable city park, you can start there. That’s how I actually started, I lived in Brooklyn, New York, and I knew nothing about foraging, but because it was interesting sounding to me, I went on a plant walk, and a whole new world opened to me. So, if there is a city park, there’s actually a whole section dedicated in the book that talks about foraging wild foods and how to properly identify them. There are foraging guides for every region of the United States as well as for all kinds of regions worldwide. That exists. That’s out there if it’s of interest.
Separate of that, I’m always a big fan of the farmer’s markets and local grocery stores because local grocery stores often will carry ingredients specific to the communities that live there. So, I lived in Jersey City for a spell and there was this incredible Dominican grocery store, and I was able to become more familiarized and broaden my own repertoire with all kinds of root vegetables and beautiful tropical fruits, for instance.
So, it’s really just paying attention to what’s near you and trying to connect to local producers or the niche ingredients that are available in your own orbit. And then that way, that establishes an adventure in food and magic as a result, perhaps, in food, and then therefore joy. And that you can just repeat over and over and over again.
Katie [31:09]:
Oh my gosh, I love that. That is such wonderful advice, and I love this notion of focusing on and enjoying the magic in food. I love this evolution that you just shared about how you started off in Brooklyn and that you’re now living more rurally. You have a new focus on slower living. I’m curious, could you have done this? Could you have launched Catbird Cottage when you were younger? What role, if any, did aging or getting to midlife play in your evolution in terms of your creativity?
Melina [31:44]:
I love this question. So, as a younger woman, I was hot about being out, and the activity and the bustle of New York City were a stimulation that I craved. And that changed, it really, there was almost a definable moment after leaving the city. I lived in the deep south for two and a half years in Alabama and I grew relationships with family farmers and brought foraging into my day-to-day experience more readily. In New York, I always had to imagine when the one elderberry shrub [Katie laughs] was going to have its flowers or its fruits and extricate myself from my schedule to get over there, and it was thwarted, to say the least.
But in moving back to the city or back north, I decided, and it just felt so palpable and clear to me that building humanity was a lot more important than lots and lots of running around. The solace and the serenity of being more connected to nature have been an incredible balm. I crave... just observation, a way to casually observe the landscape in front of me and then understanding the infinite layers that are present there in front of me. There is a kind of joy in that. The aspect where I can return to my thoughts and live truly in the present moment in this kind of landscape, brings me back to when I was a child and when I would go exploring, I was absolutely in the present moment, and there’s a real peace in that and to conjure that here at this moment in my life, when I understand the finiteness of so many things, better than when I was younger, it’s incredibly joyful, and it’s incredibly crucial. I know that I’m spending my time in a way that’s very meaningful as a result.
Katie [33:52]:
That’s so beautiful, and you’re so fortunate and lucky to have...
Melina [33:57]:
I am so lucky. Every single day I think about that.
Katie [33:58]:
To have created this life, and to really be having a space that you’ve created for yourself, and honestly, for others, where you’re helping them be present and feel joyful and connected to what’s right in front of them, to the environment around them, to what’s on their plate, to how to create a meal, and how to connect with others. It’s really such a beautiful gift, and it’s one that you’re sharing with others.
I’m so thrilled that you joined me today. I love when I drop into an amazing woman’s inbox and say, “Hi, want to be on my show?” And they say yes! For me, it’s one of the greatest joys of the last two years. I love everything you’ve shared, and I love that you’ve been with me today.
Melina [34:43]:
Thank you so much.
Katie [34:44]:
We are nearing the end of our time. It always makes me sad when I realize that we’re wrapping up. I have an eye on the clock. There’s so much more I want to ask you, so we’re going to move into a speed round. It’s kind of a high-energy, fun way to end so we can share a little bit more of you with our listeners. The good news is that anyone who has been inspired by Melina today and is excited to try some of her mouthwatering recipes, there are 100 of them in her book, A Year at Catbird Cottage, but we are going to do a quick speed round to close. Are you ready?
Melina [35:16]:
I’m so ready.
Katie [35:17]:
Let’s do it. Writing Catbird Cottage was _____.
Melina [35:22]:
The best thing in my life.
Katie [35:23]:
Nice. What’s a seasonal ingredient you’re always happy to welcome back in fall?
Melina [35:29]:
Persimmons.
Katie [35:30]:
Ooh! Those are also gorgeous as centerpieces. I’m going to say.
Melina [35:34]:
Oh my god, yes. It’s like a Flemish painting.
Katie [35:36]:
Nice, I love that. You enjoy discovering new ingredients. You’ve shared that you’re a forager. You really do discover new ingredients beyond just in the grocery store. What is something new to you that you’ve started cooking with that wasn’t part of your past?
Melina [35:52]:
Well, I found more ways to cook maitake mushrooms and hen-of-the-woods, and I love them.
Katie [35:59]:
Nice. Will we find those in your cookbook?
Melina [36:01]:
Oh yes.
Katie [36:02]:
Awesome. Okay, we are heading into the holiday cooking season. What dish do you recommend has always been a crowd pleaser?
Melina [36:10]:
Well, the cherry raganosh sandwich cookies are incredible. And especially with the holiday season, they’re these little gem-studded-like, not too sweet, but definitely indulgent cookies, and they’re gorgeous.
Katie [36:24]:
Love it. I know you’ve worked as a food stylist. What tableware or serving piece always makes food look amazing and inviting?
Melina [36:33]:
I love handmade ceramics that aren’t necessarily symmetrical, but they are perfect.
Katie [36:38]:
Fantastic. Guests are coming soon. What dresses up the table aside from the food?
Melina [36:44]:
Gorgeous flowers.
Katie [36:45]:
This staple is always in my pantry: _____.
Melina [36:49]:
Dried beans.
Katie [36:50]:
Surprise, this popular food is never in my grocery cart: _____.
Melina [36:55]:
Marshmallows. [both laugh]
Katie [36:59]:
I love surprise answers. By the way, I have two boys, and I always have marshmallows in the shopping cart.
Melina [37:06]:
Of course, you do! [both laugh]
Katie [37:10]:
Finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, I feel _____.
Melina [37:16]:
Gratitude.
Katie [37:17]:
Thank you, Melina. This has been really special and a lot of fun. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you, your cookbook, and Catbird Cottage?
Melina [37:26]:
You can find Catbird Cottage and me on Instagram, @MelinaHammer, and @CatbirdCottage. You can visit my website at MelinaHammer.com, where there are even more recipes and pieces of media. And you can visit my Food52 profile, visit the site and search “Melina Hammer.”
Katie [37:46]:
Thank you so much, Melina.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. And while I have your attention, two things. One, have you taken the time yet to write an Apple Podcast review for A Certain Age? If you’ve learned something new or simply love tuning in every week, please rate or review the show over on Apple Podcasts. Reviews help the show grow. And two, we are launching Age Out Loud over on Instagram, and we want to feature you. Do you believe your age stands for something? Are you celebrating a midlife pivot, a big birthday, or simply want to add your voice to the Age Out Loud chorus? Come join us over on Instagram @AgeOutLoud_Movement, or head to the A Certain Age website to learn more, ACertainAgePod.com.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age out loud, beauties.