Hazel Founder Aubrey Hubbell Brings No-Leak, Chic Disposable Underwear to the Midlife Incontinence Market
Show Snapshot:
Here’s an unwelcome midlife surprise: one in two women over 50 experience stress incontinence, aka urine leakage. That’s right – if you are afraid to drink water and then laugh, run, sneeze, work out, or, God forbid, sit in the middle row of an airplane, you are not alone.
Please meet Aubrey Hubbell, co-founder of luxe, femme care brand Hazel which is disrupting the billion-dollar urinary incontinence market. We may be decades into *adulting* —but we are decidedly NOT into—and not settling—for “adult diapers.”
Goodbye, Depends. Hello, Hazel. Hello to a frank, honest conversation on the taboo topic of midlife urinary incontinence.
In This Episode We Cover:
Surprise! One in three women experiences stress incontinence, aka urine leakage. Over 50? That number rises to one in two.
Think YOU don’t have “stress incontinence?” How willing are you to run, laugh, sneeze or work out with a full bladder?
Why its time to shake up the shame and stigma around incontinence products.
What it takes to create thin, ultra-absorbent panties you can wear under yoga pants.
How much urine each Hazel panty captures, the cost per wear, and where to buy.
Aubrey’s founder journey.
The ins and outs of brand development, luxe packaging, and capital raising for a challenger brand.
Show Links:
Quotable:
We had one investor that we talked to say, "I just want to jump on a trampoline again.” So, we really learned that instead of saying, “1 in 3 women, 1 in 2 women,” and leading with statistics, we lead with experiences. You know, ‘When you’re with your girlfriends on wine night, crossing your legs extra tight because you’re giggling.’
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty [0:29]:
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. And welcome to a show that is unafraid to talk about taboo subjects and gives you the tips, tools, and resources you need to reimagine midlife. Today’s taboo topic is urinary incontinence because, guess what? 1 in 3 women suffers from the problem of stress urinary incontinence, according to the Urology Care Foundation, which is why the market for urinary incontinence products is billions of dollars. But despite the fact that 1 in 3 women are afraid to drink water and then laugh, run, sneeze, work out, or, god forbid, sit in the middle row of an airplane, women are not having this conversation. Because for far too long, the incontinence category has made women feel ashamed and alienated. Hello, adult diapers. My guest today is on a mission to disrupt this category.
Aubrey Hubbell is the cofounder and chief design officer of Hazel, a line of disposable leak-proof briefs that look and feel like real underwear. Goodbye adult diapers, hello Hazel and hello Aubrey. Thank you for joining us today.
Aubrey Hubbell [1:43]:
Hi Katie, thanks so much for having me.
Katie [1:45]:
I’m really excited. I know your products. You’ve sent me a pair in the mail, and I’ve gotten to see and touch them. They are thin. They are chic, and they do look like something that you would see in the lingerie department at Bloomingdale's or Saks. But I’m curious. I know we live in an age of disruption; taxis are facing off against Uber and Lyft, and we have hotels against Airbnb. When and why did you decide the female incontinence market needed a shakeup?
Aubrey [2:15]:
Yeah, so it comes from my passion of building brands and products for women in specific life stages. That’s really where it starts. So, I’ve spent my whole career doing just that. But Hazel really started when I was talking with women, primarily in their 50s, 60s, and 70s and quickly learned that there were two segments of the bathroom. They had the shelf on the wall with all their beauty supplies; their skincare, the brands that they were really proud to use. And then they had this whole section behind the cleaning supplies with all these products that really held a lot of shame and stigma.
Once we uncovered that, just dug deeper and learned about what those products were, why there was so much shame and stigma with them, and ultimately uncovered the incontinence category specifically. Quickly figured out what was wrong with the products, [laughs] it didn’t take brain science for that. But we really determined that this was a category that had been ignored, the consumer had been ignored and overlooked for so long, the products were so terrible, the brands were really bad, they didn’t resonate at all, and we decided to jump in. In order to really make a difference, we couldn’t take the easy route and we definitely took the hard route in rethinking this whole category.
Katie [3:46]:
Yeah, but it’s so ripe for disruption. When you talked about the two shelves in the bathroom, in my mind’s eye I’m thinking of you know, your pharmacy, your drug store. You walk in and the Depends are these gigantic, bulky, hideous looking packages that kind of feel like they’re a Pamper.
I know you’re a product designer, you just shared that. Your background, you worked at Zola, you worked at the children’s boutique line, Rockets of Awesome, so you’ve designed products for multiple brands. I would love for you to walk our listeners through how your signature product, the High & Dry Briefs, work and how that technology differs from Depends or other traditional products. I don’t want to just throw Depends under the market but all traditional incontinence products that are existing, besides yours.
Aubrey [4:35]:
Yeah, so when we kind of went into this, we really built on those conversations with women. Because you would assume she wasn’t part of the conversation, based on what the products these legacy brands look like today, we wanted to make sure she was a part of the process the entire way, so really making this a user-driven product design. So, we talked to her, and we said, some of the things that are wrong with the legacy brands and products are obvious to us, but tell us what you think, how does it impact your life? And we really heard two different things.
We heard from women that are wearing the products that exist today, they’re having to change the way that they dress to cover the bulkiness; longer tops, maybe tighter pants underneath the longer tops to keep them in place. They stopped working out because of the bulkiness, they couldn’t wear them under those workout leggings. They were mapping bathrooms if they weren’t wearing the product, there was definitely a segment that wouldn’t even walk down the aisle, cannot blame her. And she was wearing maybe products for periods but constantly changing them throughout the day because they’re not optimized for leaks. So, that was really what started the design process. We asked her, what do you want? If this product could look exactly the way that you wanted, what would that be? And at the end of the day, she just wanted underwear.
97% of the women we talked to said that they wanted a disposable brief, which was really important. We entered into this space open minded but quickly discovered that the technology that exists for reusable options only absorbs up to 8 teaspoons of liquid versus what we were able to develop absorbs up to a cup and a half of liquid, which is a bladderful. So, worst case scenario, we’ve got her. But the goal is really to make sure that it could go under the workout leggings so she could get back to running, to cycling, to her yoga class, back to work because that was something that she had pulled herself out of the workforce or was really uncomfortable at work and definitely uncomfortable working out.
So, we were able to include a control-top, which was one of the top requested features, you know, “Nice to haves” but why not, let’s see if we can accomplish it. And we ended up working with material scientists and fashion designers to really tackle both the design and the technology. So, we developed our own technology, it’s super, super thin, discreet. When you look into the product, there’s not a white cover like you would see with the pad, we actually incorporated a black cover, so you’re not constantly reminded when you’re wearing the product or when you go to the bathroom.
Katie [7:26]:
They look exactly like a pair of Spanx. To me, it’s amazing because Aubrey, I actually just went to a black-tie party, and I busted out a pair of black Spanx and your product looks very similar. It’s a thin, black panty with a slightly raised top that kind of pulls you in, and we all want that confidence that we’re sleek and that we can put it under leggings, as she shared, that you can wear to yoga class. Thank you for sharing how much liquid or urine these panties hold because that was one of my questions. If we can be confident that we’re not leaking, what are we talking about? So, you’ve answered that for us, a bladderful, which is pretty amazing. Do these panties last all day? Do you replace them after urine leakage? And how much do they cost?
Aubrey [8:14]:
Yeah so, in terms of how many she might wear a day, that really varies on the amount of leakage she’s experiencing as well as just her preferences for hygiene. A lot of women, if they experience leakage, they might want to change right after. So, on average, women wear about one to two a day. So, you can imagine maybe she’s wearing it all day at the office, but then when she gets home, she’s changing it. Or maybe she wears it to work out, and it’s a specific experience that she’s wearing it for. So, that just varies dependent on her lifestyle. Some women are wearing them all day and some women are wearing them to go dancing or to go work out.
Katie [8:54]:
Okay, got it. And I’m curious about these natural fibers, we connected at a few of the recent menopause events that happened in New York City. You kind of blew my mind when you shared that Depends and the legacy products that are addressing this challenge really are based on diaper technology versus, you know, the moisture capture and wicking technology that’s offered today. What are the natural fibers that we’re talking about and what makes you have the ability to be thinner and yet be so absorbent?
Aubrey [9:29]:
Yeah, this is where the product designer comes out. So, when we went into this, we had that wish list of how this product could be better and we brought that list to manufacturers that make diapers, essentially, today. And we said, “This is what needs to change with the product so that women actually want to wear them and are comfortable wearing them,” and we were turned away. The reason why and what you were mentioning, the reason why the legacy brands look the way they do is because they’re based on the supply chain and manufacturing that their baby diaper categories are built on. So, they quite literally are baby diapers, oversized. And so, what we found out is no matter the materials that we develop, no matter what we put into that manufacturing process, what comes out at the end is still going to be a diaper.
And so, that’s when we really worked out, we needed to develop our own materials and fibers. It’s a blend of natural fibers, there are several different layers, there’s a specific design that we patented for that absorption in that core area. And those materials then have to go through a new manufacturing process. So, we had to then also develop that new manufacturing process which is kind of a blend of fast fashion and what’s called Nonwovenn, so that’s the material process. And so, we kind of combined the best of both worlds to create a product that looks and feels like real underwear and echoes that, allows us to really have that flexibility of fashion, any style, any color.
Katie [11:19]:
Totally, and you’ve totally succeeded. We’re going to head into a quick break, but when we come back, I want to find out how much these cost, and also talk about the products that you have at Hazel beyond underwear. We’ll be back after this break.
[Ad Break]
Katie [12:48]:
Aubrey, we’re back. Your products are amazing; they’re thin, they’re discreet, they’re what women want today. Listeners who are wondering how much they cost and what your sort of model is for accessing these, where can they find them and what is the price point?
Aubrey [13:04]:
Yeah, so you can buy the briefs on HelloHazel.com, they start at a pack of 15 for $35 and the more you buy the more you save, so you can see those options on our site. And then you mentioned our other products. Our other products are the Clean Slate Wipes and the Anti-Stick Stick. And the Clean Slate Wipes are very much kind of straight forward, they come in a pack of 10, and they smell good, they’re unscented so not a strong smell, and they’re just great to compliment whether you’re working out or need a little help with cleanup. And then the Anti-Stick Stick was something we designed, again, based on feedback from women. It is similar to a diaper rash cream; it technically has the same properties but it’s a roll on. So, it’s great for, if you think of during the summer if your thighs chafe, it’s great for that. But it’s also great if you have leaks or sweat and you need to heal the skin and moisturize the skin.
Katie [14:16]:
So smart. So, you have a complete offering for women who are experiencing these symptoms. So, I’m curious, what is the market size of women that need this? I mentioned 1 in 3 women sometimes experience stress urinary incontinence. I have a really good friend from college who stopped running even though she was such an avid runner because she shared that she was experiencing leakage. I’ve done a show with a female urologist who talked about all the different bladder issues that women have. For somebody who is listening to this and thinking, I thought it was just me? What is your response to that?
Aubrey [14:50]:
First of all, in terms of how many women experience this, it is 1 in 3 women overall. When we’re talking to women, call it over 50, I hate grouping them that way, but for women over 50, it’s 1 in 2. So, a lot of women experience leakage in some form, and that’s kind of just the groundwork for where this started.
Katie [15:14]:
It’s absolutely astonishing when you think about the size of the audience. I myself don’t want to be in the middle row of an airplane. I feel like I’ve gotten better, and I’m not a runner, so I’m not experiencing this, but I’ve definitely had those moments of being worried when you’re laughing or sneezing. At one point, we had to run through the airport, and I was like, I’m not doing that. You can either have me be on that airplane or... [laughs] It is definitely a challenge.
What would you say to women– I love the positioning that you bring to this category. Your website is stunning, it’s elevated, and you talk to women in a sophisticated way. Why is it important to be having this conversation that normalizes this problem?
Aubrey [16:01]:
Yeah, I mean, when we were developing the brand, we spent so much time figuring out what type of imagery and language really resonated with her, and that was so important in really breaking the stigma associated with not only the experience but the products. Quickly, we learned that the word “incontinence” does not resonate. Even if that’s the medical term, no woman that I would talk to would say they have incontinence, yet they may be using products for hygiene purposes. So, as we thought about it, how do we say what we’re for without saying what we’re for? It was a value that we really speak directly, we’re not overly flowery, but we really speak to her as she should be spoken to and just resonate with her.
So, we use the word “leaks” very intentionally. It says what it is, whether she’s running, whether she’s on a plane, whether she’s at work. So, with all of the brand imagery that we built out, it was really important. We looked at all different types, tested out more medical. We tested more casual, more fashionable. And what ultimately resonated was that more fashionable imagery and the really elevated look and feel that we ended up with.
So, with that, I think what’s been really validating is about 35% of our customers have never purchased traditional incontinence products, whether that’s pads, liners, or adult diapers. And that really speaks to the way that we developed our advertising and paid marketing was leading with experiences. So, everything you said, I’ve loved in terms of whether it’s your friend that stopped running or sitting in the middle seat on a plane, or just all of the different activities, sneezing, laughing. We had this one investor specifically that we talked to, she said, "I just want to jump on a trampoline again.” [both laugh] And so, we really learned that instead of saying you know, “1 in 3 women, 1 in 2 women,” and leading with statistics, we lead with experiences. You know, "When you’re with your girlfriends on wine night, crossing your legs extra tight because you’re giggling.” That’s the type of thing that resonates with this audience, so that’s what we led with when it came to branding, and ultimately validated that with a huge chunk of our audience buying products that never looked bad.
Katie [18:50]:
So, I’m curious. You mentioned pitching Hazel to a female investor who said she wants to be on a trampoline, which I love because we all do. What has it been like as a founder to bring the product to investors? What is the reception that you’re getting in general? Are you seeing female investors connect and understand the need more than men? What’s been your capital-raising experience?
Aubrey [19:17]:
Yeah, it’s definitely been a complete mix of responses. We’ve had kind of the extreme of me holding up legacy brands and saying, "No, women do not want to wear this. This is a problem,” and trying to convince them. But it’s just such a breath of fresh air when you talk to people that understand the category, whether it’s male or female. We have some amazing men and women investors that just get it. They have backgrounds in... So, one of our investors is the cofounder of The Honest Company with Jessica Alba, and he understood the constraints because of the baby diaper category. We have several investors that are ex-Procter & Gamble executives, and so they saw the constraints within the legacy brands.
So, just connecting with people that really, truly get it was so important. But a big value of ours was finding those women who firsthand understand the experience. So, we specifically sought out women investors that needed this product or have purchased these legacy brands for their mothers or their grandmothers. So, either way, whether it was more strategic from a manufacturing and product development side or truly being able to empathize with our customers, it was so important. But we did see kind of extremes on both sides in terms of feedback. If they didn’t get it, they weren’t a good fit. [laughs]
Katie [20:53]:
Of course, it makes sense. There are enough investors out there, you want to connect with the people that truly understand the size of the market, and the size of the market is pretty astonishing. I’m curious, you have experience as a product designer, we talked about how you’ve worked for several different brands, you identified the need for this product to be reinvented and reimagined. Where are you manufacturing these products? Was it hard to take your idea and create a product and bring it to market? Walk us through that a little bit.
Aubrey [21:28]:
Yeah, well, when I said we took the difficult route, not only is it challenging to design your own or develop your own materials and then design your own manufacturing process, but we did it all during the pandemic, [laughs] which was an added layer of challenge. So, we developed our first design in the Dominican Republic with an incredible manufacturer that just worked with us to really develop and fine tune every single thing. So, we spent two years in product development, and we wanted to make sure that we weren’t settling. As I mentioned, we all those “nice to haves” that women told us they wanted, we were able to incorporate. So, we really worked a lot with them for a long time before we launched.
Katie [22:21]:
And how, where did you find your package designer? Your branding is gorgeous. How did you make that all happen?
Aubrey [22:29]:
Yeah, so my background specifically has been in not only product design but brand development, as well as user research. So, kind of had brought in every single skillset I’ve homed in the last several years, and with brands specifically, I’ve got a great network of really talented people. So, I brought together a design studio, Studio Mast, and they came in and did the brand identity. So, that means both the logo and the colors. We worked really closely to develop that. And then, we worked with an amazing copy person on the voice and tone. Her name is Caitlin Snyder. We worked really hard on making sure that we developed every single piece of our copy, our language, how we speak to her, what our values are, who our muse is, as we call it, our customer persona. And then we brought in a person that did our website, and she helped with art direction as well.
So, it was really bringing in so many different people that helped it all come together and really create that elevated look and feel. But that was really, based on my experience building various brands and products, we had these super high standards for the product, so how do we then build a brand on top of that that really resonates and is at the same level as the premium product?
Katie [24:06]:
Yeah, it’s so well done. It’s so sophisticated. I always love hearing the backstory of what it takes because most of us just walk into a store, find a product on a shelf and buy it. And we don’t always think about how it goes from ideation to execution to the packaging. To me, it’s just so fascinating to see these products come to life, and I just love a sneak peek into the process. I’m also curious about how you market it. For anyone who is listening to this who is thinking, I’ve got a great idea, I’ve always thought XYZ should be invented, or I would love to bring a midlife product to the market because I’m excited about my idea. How do you connect your product to a consumer? What’s that process?
Aubrey [24:53]:
Yeah, so what I didn’t mention with the brand development was also, like we said with product development, we shared our brand book with hundreds of women, so that directly informed how we brought it to market. So, we wanted to make sure that the words we used resonated, and the visual look and feel resonated. So then, when we brought it to market, we launched this year in January, direct to consumer, so on our website with a subscription, and that was, again, all based on her feedback telling us what she wanted, what would make her life easier.
So, when we launched the subscription, we also had a trial kit that allowed her to try two different sizes. Buying online is terrible, and it’s always so hard to figure out your sizing. We have a size chart, but very rarely are women getting out a tape measure and measuring themselves. Just a reality. So, we offered the ability to do a trial kit with two different sizes and then once she confirmed what her size was, she would get a subscription box based on how many products she needed per day and then it would be a monthly subscription. So, that was how we launched.
And then, in terms of marketing it, we did what I referenced before, which was leading with experiences. So, making sure imagery really showed what she was doing, whether it was running, drinking with her girlfriends, or going off to work. All those different scenarios we showed in our advertising as well as “This or that.” So, we showed legacy products or white labeled products, just kind of the basic products that manufacturers offered to brands, we showed those, and then we showed ours, so women know what these products look like.
Katie [26:41]:
That’s so smart. By the way, if you had a side-by-side comparison of a Hazel High & Dry Brief next to a Depends, you would have sales like gangbusters. That’s so smart because there is such a difference. I’m encouraging all listeners to go over to your website and see what we’re talking about. We’re describing it to you, but until you see one of these products on the website, or on your Instagram, or you hold one in your hand and experience how thin and sleek the panty is, the contrast is so startling.
Aubrey [27:17]:
Yeah, it was important for us too. When you go to the grocery store and you look at the products available, rarely what you see on the packaging does it reflect what the product looks like. They’re so highly photoshopped, so while what you see on the pack might be a cute pair of underwear, when you unpack, it’s a diaper. [Katie laughs] For us, it was really important to get great shots that were not photoshopped of the product on the body. It was also a great way to celebrate all women’s bodies, showing stretch marks, and showing scars, and all of that with our briefs on and no photoshop.
Katie [28:00]:
Yeah, I love that too. It reminds me of Sonsoles Gonzalez and Better Not Younger, who came on the show and shared that her website uses a lot of photographs of her actual friends. Her friends are these gorgeous, mature women, and the women that are on your website sharing and modeling your product look like gorgeous, real women, and I appreciate that as somebody who is in the mature category myself.
So, Aubrey in full transparency, as you know, we’ve talked about this. Typically, on the show, I feature women in their 50s, sometimes in their mid-40s. But you are, I think, my youngest guest ever. I would love it if you could share with my listeners your age and what made you decide to get into this market despite the fact that you’re not currently, probably a candidate for your own product.
Aubrey [28:52]:
I’m 32 years old, and I am so, so proud to be able to serve an audience that is older than me. It’s something that I’ve been passionate about for a very long time. I’ve always had friends that were older than me, and I’ve always loved people that are older than me. I don’t know why but it’s been that way since I was a kid.
So, in terms of my career and how it happened to be this next stage of life, I actually started out working with moms post-partum pregnancy age, and so obviously, that’s a wide range of age. But from a life stage perspective, I really started out supporting that mom that just got pregnant and then is post-partum with an infant. And then the next stage was, okay, moms that have kids that are a little bit older and working at that fashion brand, call it, through size 14, so maybe pre-teens in there. And then, I went to Zola, which was primarily for brides getting married, so engagement through newlywed life.
So, Hazel happened to be that next stage, but I actually started working with women in their 50s, 60s, and 70s at Zola, so that was kind of where the seed was initially planted with this demographic, with this age group. They were our primary revenue driver for the wedding registry products. So, if you think about couples creating their wedding registry, the guests actually buying the gifts are the aunts, the family friends, the grandmothers, and the moms. They’re the ones actually buying those gifts and creating revenue for the company, so I actually was bringing in women in their 50s, 60s, 70s to optimize that experience, that digital experience for them all the time.
Katie [30:51]:
It makes so much sense. This is steady drumbeat of this show is that women who are, as you said, 50, 60, 70, and beyond are the most affluent consumer in this country. We are an enormous block, we have buying and purchasing power, and it feels like brands are slowly catching up to that and that companies are creating products and services that meet our needs. You know, when we connected in New York, and I had the pleasure of sitting next to you at the Naomi Watts Menopause Event, and I was like, I need to have you on my show to talk about your product because even though you’re younger than my average guest, we feature women who are helping women thrive in midlife and I can say that if 1 in 3 women – and you shared that shocking statistic, 1 in 2 women over 50 – are experiencing stress incontinence or leakage, as it’s better to call it, I guess, they need your product. So, I’m so thrilled to be able to introduce you and Hazel to my audience.
It’s funny because I thought to myself, I’m not sure that I need this. But now I’m realizing that you can have it for, you know, maybe a hike. Even if you’re not experiencing regular stress incontinence, this is something that maybe every woman should have in their bathroom for times that they need it. So, I’m so delighted that you joined us today.
Aubrey, we’re moving into our speed round. Our time is coming to a close. We always end on a high-energy note, and it’s just sort of one-to-two-word answers. Are you ready?
Aubrey [32:29]:
I’m ready.
Katie [32:30]:
Let’s do it! Launching Hazel was _____.
Aubrey [32:35]:
Super challenging.
Katie [32:37]:
Super, super challenging. We love honest answers. The first time I remember hearing a customer use Hazel, they said what that stuck with me: _____.
Aubrey [32:49]:
“I can run again.”
Katie [32:50]:
“I can run again,” I love it! Hazel has gotten great press. What is a pinch-me-press moment that you had?
Aubrey [33:00]:
I’m still on a high from the Vogue article.
Katie [33:03]:
Who doesn’t want to be in Vogue? Of course. Your website says, “Hazel is all about increasing confidence and sparking joie de vivre.” What gives you confidence?
Aubrey [33:16]:
Helping women, empowering them to just live their life how they want to.
Katie [33:21]:
Nice. And what’s sparks joie de vivre for you?
Aubrey [33:26]:
Oh my goodness, so many different things. This journey of building Hazel, and meeting so many amazing women like you. It gives me so much joy.
Katie [33:38]:
Aww, I love that. And finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, at the ripe old age of 32, I feel _____.
Aubrey [33:48]:
Secure.
Katie [33:49]:
Mature, perfect.
Aubrey [33:51]:
Secure.
Katie [33:52]:
Secure! Even better. Even better. Yeah, to feel secure in yourself, to feel confident. As you should, you’ve created an amazing product, you’ve had an idea, you turned it into reality, and you’re making a difference for women. You should feel secure. It’s an amazing accomplishment, I’m thrilled you were here today, and I’m so excited to share your product with my audience. thank you so much, Aubrey. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you and Hazel?
Aubrey [34:23]:
Go to HelloHazel.com, and you can find us on Instagram too @HelloHazel_ and then I’m on Instagram as well @AubreyRachael.
Katie [34:39]:
Thank you so much, Aubrey.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next week when beauty founder Angel Cornelius of Maison 276 joins me to talk about midlife beauty, silver hair, and how she turned her signature Pomegranate Kiss Body Butter, which she first mixed in her kitchen, into a national brand and a Today show favorite.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties.