Career Pro Kerry Hannon On Remote Work + Great Pajama Jobs 50+
Show Snapshot:
Is working from home the new corner office? If you’re looking to land and love a remote work job, listen in as career and finance expert Kerry Hannon of "Great Pajama Jobs: Your Complete Guide to Working from Home" uncovers ideas for finding jobs—and thriving—in the new world of remote work. Plus, she shares strategies for side-stepping ageism in your job hunt. Bonus, we talk the money moves that every woman 50+ should take to thrive, especially now.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. What’s a pajama job?
2. Why remote work is for all generations, not just younger digital natives.
3. The biggest myth hurting the 50+ worker.
4. The tech skills you need to be marketable.
5. The secret sauce an older worker brings to the workplace.
6. Acing interviews with a C.A.R. story.
7. The future of work post-pandemic.
8. Returning to work after a career break.
9. Key money moves to take to prep for retirement.
10. What are you waiting for? Time to try a retirement calculator.
11. Ramp up your financial smarts with a money book club.
Quotable:
One of the big, pervasive myths about an older worker is that you're not up to speed with technology.
If you're an over-50-worker trying to get back into the workplace, it's all about your network.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (00:03):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50, who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
The economic shockwaves of COVID-19 set off a global cascade of pink slips. Companies of all sizes collapsed, entire sectors shrank, and a vastly different economic and job landscape is emerging as work from home is becoming the new normal. We Zoom, we Skype, we have virtual job interviews. Wondering how this is going to affect you? Worried that ageism will impact your chances of hanging on to your job or landing a new one?
I'm joined today by career and personal finance expert, Kerry Hannon whose latest book, Great Pajama Games: Your Complete Guide to Working from Home, is your bible for landing and loving a remote work gig. Kerry will walk us through the pros and cons of remote work, and debunk the myth that older workers, 50-plus, are doomed to low-pay, low-skill of retirement jobs. Plus she's graciously agreed to put on her finance cap to help us think through the key financial questions every woman should be asking herself and easy actions you can take to thrive during this period of extreme uncertainty. Welcome, Kerry.
Kerry Hannon (01:09):
Good to be here, Katie. Thanks for the invite.
Katie (01:11):
I adore the title of your latest book. What's a pajama job? And what makes one great?
Kerry (01:18):
Well, I must say, we're using it a little bit loosely, but it's remote working. It's working from home. It's working outside of the traditional workplace. And many of us might do it in our pajamas at some point during a day, but I made it sort of fun. I think that people who approach remote work in a more formal way, truly are. Maybe your boss doesn't want to think that you're in your PJ’s.
Katie (01:43):
Maybe you're in your Zoom top and yoga pants.
Kerry (01:46):
Let's go for yoga pants.
Katie (01:47):
Yeah, exactly. Remote work feels like it's everywhere these days, given what's going on with COVID. Is this something that is happening because of the pandemic? What was the remote work landscape pre-March, 2020?
Kerry (02:03):
Sure. You know, Katie, the fact is that remote working was truly getting to be a global movement. I mean, across the board, remote working was becoming more accepted. It was no longer a struggle for people to ask their employer or their manager, "Can I work from home one day, a week or two?"
Katie (02:23):
Yeah.
Kerry (02:23):
Getting that flexibility in your work life because it wasn't just for older workers, younger workers were now saying, "Hey, we're digital natives. We've grown up with our laptops and working wherever we are. We want to have this as part of our benefit is that we have this work flexibility to work where we want to when we want to and how we want to." And so, you know, across all age groups, it was happening and there were many companies that were saying, "Hey, we get this. We're seeing the benefits for our bottom line and for our productivity, by letting our workers work from home." So, you know, that was happening and then boom, the genie's out of the bottle. Everybody had to go home. And now it's, as you alluded to, this is where we're at. And it's becoming a reality that I don't think we're going to go back on.
Katie (03:12):
You touch on the fact that younger workers, who are digital natives, were really asking for this type of work. Do you think that employers and hiring managers feel that remote work is really the province solely of the younger worker? Do they recognize that people 50-plus are comfortable and fluent in tech for remote working?
Kerry (03:33):
I'm so glad you asked that because that is one of the big, pervasive myths about an older worker is that you're not up to speed with technology. You're not going to be comfortable communicating this way, through Slack or through Zoom or whatever it may be, as an older worker. There's no evidence out there that they're not capable of working this way. And frankly, since we've been home, it's clearly proven that everyone knows how to do this now because you simply have to. And I find that that was something that employers are saying. They may have thought that in the back of their heads, but today, older workers have been able to prove quite decisively that they, in fact, are up to speed with this. And if they're not if someone is still uncomfortable with the tech piece of it, I really encourage them to…it's essential that you have these tech skills to work remotely. So, you're going to have to learn some new computer programs and communications tools and web conferencing. You know, what we just mentioned, Zoom, Google, and Base Camp. So, there's free online skills training all over the place to get you up to speed. And so don't be intimidated by it.
Katie (04:44):
Absolutely. It's interesting because all of these different technologies that you just referenced, Slack, Base Camp, part of their promise and their offering, is that they're easy to use that they're making your life simple. You can work across teams, work remotely, and yet, it's ironic that people feel that at a certain age, you can't learn these fairly simple tools. I actually teach a class at the education management company, General Assembly, and they teach all of these offerings that you just alluded to. So, you're absolutely spot on that places like General Assembly or Coursera or even LinkedIn Learning, are great places to pick up these new tools and to reskill. And all of the platforms give their own education tutorials on how to use these.
Kerry (05:31):
And they're free.
Katie (05:32):
Free is good, we like free.
So, we've just sort of debunked the myth that older workers can't have these tech skills, that they do in fact have them, or they can easily get up to speed. That's the number-one hurdle. The second hurdle is really communicating to an employer that this is not an issue. So, how would you recommend to an older worker that they do the communication that their skills are sharp?
Kerry (05:59):
You know, that that is a little bit tricky, but not hard to do. The important thing to do is to make that connection. If you are remote working now, and you've probably been doing this for a while so you're used to this, but the important thing is regular communication and connection. To have that touchpoint with your boss or your manager every day, maybe a couple of times a day. And it needs to be through the computer and written texts and emails, but it also needs to be verbal. So, pick up the phone if possible, and show that that's one thing that somebody who's over 50 or midlife clearly has. We have amazing communication skills that a younger generation may not have quite developed as much because they've grown up with their screens.
Katie (06:51):
Absolutely. So, what are some of the other skills that a 50-plus workforce brings? I've heard you say that you just said communication skills. Obviously, if you've been in the workforce for a number of years, you have deep industry knowledge. You might have had more experience managing teams. What do you see as assets that an older worker should be playing up to land their next great gig?
Kerry (07:13):
Oh, absolutely. You need to actually demonstrate that you are a problem solver that you have weathered through important challenges and come out the other side. And we call these — it applies for all age groups, but particularly if you're an experienced worker — you want to have these examples, your C.A.R. story. So, your Challenge, your Action, and the Result, you know, whatever it was. You brought a difficult job in ahead of schedule or added sales or revenues and so forth. Whatever the challenge was, make it a fun story and be able to show that it was your experience that helped you navigate this quickly and appropriately for your clients. So, it's really being able to keep track of your progress and show them that you're able to navigate problems and problem-solving.
And also your ability to work with teams. You know, we're not solo operators, even if we are working alone out of our home offices right now. An older worker is actually technically, as I've found in my experience, very collaborative. The teams, when you have a younger and an older worker together on a team, studies clearly show that their productivity is higher. And so, it's something that's really to be valued. And I do think that an older worker can bring that to the workplace.
Katie (08:40):
Absolutely. I agree. As an older worker myself, I totally believe that we leverage our experience, we leverage the ability to communicate and work across different groups. Oftentimes, older workers are parents, you're living in a multigenerational home. You have the ability to communicate across generations in ways that perhaps younger workers who are just developing their confidence might not yet have.
Kerry (09:07):
And Katie, one other thing I would add to that, is that we also have this ability to show an employer that in fact, we've done this in recent years. We don't want to go back and say, "Hey, you know, I solved this problem 40 years ago." Because it's different today. So, you need to show that you're curious and that you're open to trying new ways of doing things and you've thought about new ways of doing it. Because that's one thing that employers are concerned about is that you're stuck in your ways, that you aren't willing to learn new ways of doing things. So, this is very important, to show that you listen and you understand the mission or the problem of your employer or your potential employer, and really are willing to bring a fresh way of thinking to it.
Katie (09:51):
Employers care most about what you've been doing lately. My day job is actually helping clients with their career branding and their professional messaging. I do a lot of work on LinkedIn, helping people share their story, share their value, and everything that you said really aligns with the coaching that I give to my clients. That employers care what you've been doing most recently. If you've been lucky enough to have a long and wonderful career, you really need to focus your communications on what you've been up to in your most recent role and your last few years. And I love your suggestion that you come armed with a C.A.R story, and I'm going to start to use that acronym with my clients. And I'm putting it into the show notes so people can use it in their own lives, but you really want to illustrate the value that your work produces, the outcome that you deliver in concrete terms. Really use metrics, numbers, and really specific examples that bring your story to life.
Kerry (10:46):
Yup. Everyone loves a good narrative and, you know, you don't want to just say this was my title and these are my responsibilities. No, no, no. What did you do? You know, tell us about that.
Katie (10:57):
Right. What did success look like? And how did you contribute to it?
Kerry (11:00):
Yes. Perfect.
Katie (11:00):
So, what are some remote work jobs that are exciting? That our listeners might be interested in doing? I know your book covers a lot of different companies in different industries. Where do you see the opportunities?
Kerry (11:12):
Well, you know, without question, that's what the first section of the book is all about, great remote jobs. And it's really a smorgasbord to get people thinking, "Oh my gosh, I didn't really think that this would be something that could easily do remotely." Yes. Okay. You're going to have your basic customer service kind of help. That kind of position has always technically been there as a remote job. But what I'm seeing is everything from accountants to graphic designers, to medical coders, remote nurses. We know telemedicine is growing like crazy and of course writers, but there are all kinds of angles. And two of the big areas, of course, are healthcare and education. So, if you can find your way. I'm sure in your work, you do this too. I encourage people, you know, to do that MRI on your skillset. What is it that you're really good at? And don't be afraid to redirect that to a new industry, to a new field, because you're just redeploying yourself. You may need to ramp up some skills and so forth, but they see how you can make a pivot from what you're currently working in to kind of take advantage of some of these growing opportunities. Because coming out of the pandemic, yes, it's been difficult. There have been extraordinary layoffs. It's been difficult for many, many people, but I do see glimmers of hope, of light, of new kinds of jobs that are coming up through this, that we're going to see increasingly important in people's lives.
Katie (12:43):
I agree that people need to recognize that hiring is happening and not get discouraged. I am on LinkedIn every day. I see clients announcing that they are looking to source talent. I see clients announcing that they've gotten a job. My own sister-in-law, who lives in Massachusetts now, just got hired for a job in Seattle. And that job came into her hands because of COVID. Being in Massachusetts, she wouldn't be getting hired for a job where she's expected to be in the Seattle office every day, but the remote work has made that possible. So, it's an exciting time in some ways, even though it's really daunting and scary in other ways for people.
How do you see COVID having reshaped the job market and the remote job market, and what do you see — it's so hard to have a crystal ball and life feels very uncertain — but what do you see coming in our fall?
Kerry (13:37):
You're correct. I mean, it's difficult to really look too far, because who would've thought we'd be where we are today in January or December. But what I see Katie is a movement, and this is something that had been starting to happen in the workplace, but we're going to see it accelerating. Even as we come out of the pandemic and we have more of a hybrid workforce, some people going into the office, others working remotely, is that employers they've had to really pare down their operations to get through this and the potential recession. We may come out of this, that I'm going to hazard a guess that we're going to see more contract jobs, more part-time jobs, more jobs without benefits being offered by employers, to people working remotely and offsite. That is not a particularly great thing for workers in general, not to have those benefits, but I do think we're going to see an increasing amount of that. This has been happening for workers in their twenties for quite some time. And for workers over 50, that the job market is tilting that direction. And so, what that's going to require is some pretty serious personal finance for the individual to take control of your own retirement savings and those sorts of things.
Katie (15:03):
You wrote an article earlier in the week that I came across on the internet and it was talking about how you wanted to debunk the myth that older workers are to these low pay, low-skilled, retirement jobs. And I think you alluded to that really tired trope of the Walmart greeter as if that's the only job that people are eligible for after a certain age.
Kerry (15:23):
I know that makes me crazy. Doesn't that make you crazy? It's like what? I mean, it's like, you know, everyone trots that out. And in fact, there are so many really interesting jobs and those broad ones I mentioned earlier, but people don't have to be stuck. There are all kinds of opportunities for experienced workers who, especially if you've got the digital skills, or anything remotely, in terms of being able to seamlessly work online with different projects and project management.
But it's all about skills and people's need, there is not this cohort of young workers coming up to take a lot of these jobs. And so employers know that, especially if they're trying to control costs, they don't want to have to be training people and ramping them up for a job. They want somebody to come on board who can hit the ground running. And so, it's very important as we mentioned before, you know, for somebody who's older looking for a job in the workplace, don't try to replicate your old job. If you've been laid off, really think creatively about ways you can apply your skills for a new approach and be open to different kinds of jobs, you might not have thought of, it's really important.
And I think we mentioned in talking at some point that some people may have stepped out, especially women, are doing some other kinds of work. Think about your skills beyond your resume. You know, if you worked as a pro bono, as a treasurer for your local parent-teacher association, or you did financial management and budgeting for them, or if you're caring for an aging relative, which I have been for my mom, who's 90, you've been a financial manager, a hiring manager.
Katie (17:03):
You've been doing unpaid work.
Kerry (17:03):
Yeah. I mean, you've been doing it, so market those skills. Do it.
Katie (17:09):
Absolutely. I have three children who range in age from 13 to 20. And I have been in and out of the paid workforce two times during the 20 years that I've had children and I can testify that it is possible to return to work. It is possible to make the move from being a stay-at-home parent to being, gainfully employed. It takes, as you alluded to, creativity, it takes tenacity, it takes grit, and it takes being willing to put your foot in the through a door, you know, kind of crack it open and then keep pushing it open. So, when I first returned to work, I was doing it not in the same capacity as when I left, but I was willing to take something that was smaller, that paid a little bit less. That sort of cracked that door open for me, which I think is a great strategy for returning to work.
Kerry (17:57):
You know, Katie, that is the strategy. That is so smart because you don't get caught up in the semantics of the salary or the title, or the ego issues there. Okay? If you've been able to take some time. And I always talk about my fitness plan, you know, you need to be financially fit, physically fit, and spiritually fit, to do most things in life. But certainly to get a job if you've been out of the workplace from a layoff, or if you stepped off to raise a family or do caregiving. So what you just said, if you're financially fit and you've done a budget, you've trimmed down, you're lean and mean, you're not so caught up in having to have that certain salary. And you can slowly, you know, get back in and rebuild where you are.
The physical fitness is really important because it fights ageism in a huge way. People don't even realize it, but they want you on their team because you bring this energy and this positivity, and this can-do spirit from simply being physically fit. It's not dying your hair or getting Botox. It is really truly a wonderful tonic. I walk my dog, but you might, you know, swim. Build exercise and eating with nutrition into your life.
The final thing is the spiritual part, which is really just a quiet space where you can step away from the stress of job-hunting. And whether it's Tai Chi, yoga, mindful meditation, whatever works for you. Again, for me, it's walking my dog in the country, but whatever works. These things are magic to help you face and step into the workplace again.
Katie (19:28):
That is such smart advice. Because job hunting can really feel like a slog and it can feel dispiriting. When I work with a client, I work with a lot of senior clients. They've had great careers and if they're in between successes or in transition, it can take a period of several months, even up to a year to find something that is the right fit for where they are and their career and is the right fit for them in terms of salary.
So, when I'm working with somebody, where it's taking a longer time to ramp back into the workforce, I always encourage them to think about where else in their life do they succeed? You know, are they singing at their church choir, or are they making like the brownies that everyone's raving about? You know, have they picked up a new skill? Because when you feel that you're succeeding somewhere, it affects your whole demeanor, it affects your mindset. And that is so critical for succeeding and landing in a new role. People want to work with people who are confident and happy and feel good about themselves. So, you really need to inject that mojo into your job hunt. So, I really appreciate that advice.
You mentioned getting financially fit as well. And I would love to switch gears for a little bit and talk about money. How do you make those foundational elements? If you're looking for a job switch, how do you set yourself up? So, you can make a career pivot, or you can weather a job loss.
Kerry (20:56):
That is an individual situation. Everyone's going to have a different scenario, whether you're single, whether you have a partner, whether you have a family. So, the comment, the real basic thing, is you sit down and really do that budget. None of us like to do budgets but do it. Where can you cut back? Right now, I think many people that were laid off and working from home have had this ability to see where some of their costs have reduced because they're not going into the workplace as much, commuting costs, and spending. They've been able to reduce spending because, in the early stages, we couldn't even go out to eat, right?
Katie (21:36):
No, no coffee. No Starbucks. No lunch.
Kerry (21:40):
And what are those costs that you really found you really didn't need? So, get lean. Really look at those aspects. Can you downsize depending on where you live and your status and your stage of life? Do you want to move to a smaller home? Do you want to move to a different city even, where the cost of living is lower? Those are bigger picture ways to do it, but can you pay down some credit card debt? Anything you can do to kind of set that path, make a nice, clean slate for yourself. So that when you're looking at salary and you're looking at opportunities out there, you're a little more nimble. You can really have more flexibility there.
Katie (22:18):
And what if you didn't have the time to do that kind of planning and trim those costs? Because for many people, their jobs sort of went poof during COVID, or their companies went out of business. Things have really shifted. What would you say to somebody who's kind of scrambling right now? How would you stem the losses quickly? Is there a shortcut? What is your recommendation?
Kerry (22:42):
You're correct that the things about financial fitness do tend to do to be a process. You know, it's hard to do things overnight. I mean, you can quickly cut down a couple of costs, some of the more extraneous ones, but really the lifestyle changes are things that come over time, but you need to pay attention to them. I think that you need to get one of the big issues is going to be if you need to get back to work right now, is to really get the ego out of the way and be willing to take on work that that maybe is not paying what you think you're valued at. I believe we all need to value our work, but if you need to just keep income coming in, be willing to start a patchwork kind of a work environment where you're doing a couple of different types of work, a couple of different clients. Because now if we're working online, we're working from a home office remotely, this is the time that if you're getting these contract or part-time offers, to piece together, a patchwork quilt of a couple of things and realize that one of them may grow into a permanent situation or a full-time thing, but maybe not. Maybe this is a time in your life where we no longer have that linear career, that this is a new workplace. This is you know, work transformed. It's a different way of managing our work life. And, you know, I've said this all along, no matter what age you should always think of your work life as Me, Inc. You're always working for yourself. And these are your clients. Even if you just have one.
Katie (24:09):
I love that. I saw a post on LinkedIn a few weeks ago. And it was from a young woman who just graduated from college and she was a marketing major and she'd just gotten hired at Target. And she made her announcement on LinkedIn. And she said, no, I have not been hired by Target's marketing department. No, I'm not working in the digital space that I wanted to. I am a Target retail employee. And I've taken this job because I need to make some money. I just got out of college. Work is work and I am open to opportunities down the road, but I'm delighted to be earning a paycheck. And she had something like 60,000 "likes" and people were so excited for her because she, as you said, put her ego aside. She was honest about the situation she was in. You know she's a college graduate, she needs some money, and she was willing to work. And I thought to myself, I'd love to hire this kid.
Kerry (25:00):
She's authentic and real. I mean, that's what it's all about. And you know, Katie, wherever you are, even if you've taken on…and I often tell people to get volunteering even, get out of your head and into the world. And what happens there is it explains those gaps in your resume, but you never know who you're going to meet, who might lead to your next opportunity. She may not know as a retail associate at Target, you never know who you're going to meet. Or, you know, what's going to come your way and how you spin that to a new kind of when you're in a regular job interview. My gosh, I think that would be a really fun story for her to tell in an interview about why she took that opportunity up and what she's learned from it, right?
Katie (25:40):
Hiring managers want you to account for time. And if she's accounting for time by explaining that she was willing to get into the workforce, that's a check in the box. That's a reason why you'd want to hire her. And the strategic volunteering that you talked about also helps you account for time.
I had a client who was a CFO and he got caught up in a reduction-in-force and he was job hunting for six months. But he was a very senior, C-suite executive, and finding those types of opportunities, they're not everywhere. So, six months into his job hunting, he thought,"I need to be telling a new story." And he started strategically volunteering as the acting CFO at a nonprofit where he worked. And this was so smart because then he could go into a job interview, explain what he was doing with his time. He was clear that he was just acting CFO while he was job hunting, but it gave value to the nonprofit. It allowed him to tell a new story and it ultimately helped land him his next role as a CFO at a different organization. So, volunteering is a great way to be using your time while you're job hunting and you can acquire new skills while you're doing it. You might be able to pick up new technology. You might be able to have, you know, work on a new project that you can add to your list.
Kerry (26:58):
Absolutely. And the other thing, I'm quite sure that you talk about a lot and I swear by, is that no matter what age you are, but definitely if you're an over 50 worker trying to get back into the workplace, it's all about your network. It's all about your networks.
Katie (27:14):
It's your net worth....
Kerry (27:15):
That's how employers hire you. I always say networking is one letter away from not working.
Katie (27:21):
I'm stealing that!
Kerry (27:25):
It's all yours, but it's the truth is, they hire people they know or people they know. And they hire people who believe in their mission, who love what they're doing, who really love their product. So, you know, if you can find that joy, that enthusiasm for five or six employers who you really want to work for, then you go on LinkedIn or wherever it is. And you find out who the heck do you know who works there. And start that process to get your foot in the door, to meet somebody who can make that recommendation or that introduction for you. It doesn't get you the job, but it certainly gets you a long way towards getting hired.
Katie (28:00):
Absolutely. LinkedIn is a wonderful research tool to figure out who can help make a warm intro. So, you don't have to do that cold outreach. I agree.
I want to switch gears for a minute and talk a little bit about retirement while we can. You know, most of our audience is 50-plus. I'm 50. I have done some of the things I know I should be doing, although not all. And my question to you, is it too late at this stage to start making money moves for our retirement? Are there still opportunities to do retirement planning at this phase?
Kerry (28:35):
Without question, without question, go for it.
Katie (28:39):
Yay!
Kerry (28:39):
We've got this longevity. It's no longer, you're working to 65. Let's dismiss that right now. Our generation may be the first one to embrace this idea, but it's a cultural issue that's going to change over the years. The 20 somethings are going to be working to 75, 80. That's just how it's going to be. So, the fact is right now at 50, you've got another 15, 20 years minimum before you really need to tap into that retirement money and you can let it grow for you. And even people who have sort of saved adequately to this stage, always are planning for what kind of work they want to do. And those quotes, retirement years, because, you know, it's their safety net. So, they don't have to take Social Security early at 62 or at full retirement age but they can wait until 70 and they get really the benefit at that 8% bump in their Social Security benefit for those years.
So, it's really important that we can do that, especially with the stock market gyrating the way it is, there’s no reason why we can’t. We've got lots of years of growth left in that. So, be confident. Make a plan. Think about, well, I may want to just work full speed ahead for this many more years, but you know, the world has a way of changing that on us. So, always be prepared that we're going to be working lots of different kinds of jobs, much longer than our parents. And so, yes, yes, yes. You've got plenty of time to continue saving and there are those starting your own individual IRA is really a good way to do that. If you, depending on your business, you might do a solo 401k.
Always remember: if you are doing one of those contract jobs or you're freelancing, please do those automatic savings out of your paycheck into a retirement account that you've set up. And I'd like them at some of the no-load mutual fund companies like Vanguard or Fidelity or T. Rowe, but whoever you're working with is fine. Just make it an automatic distribution from each of your paychecks, because just like your employer does, or your full-time employer did do because you won't notice that it's missing in it and you will continue on a regular basis investing for retirement and saving for retirement. And it's really hard to just decide to do it once a year because, that check is too big. But if you do it with each paycheck, it’s much easier.
Katie (31:05):
Such, such smart advice. And what would be another tip or tool, or what surprises you about what people are not doing to save for retirement or plan for retirement that you think is a must-do?
Kerry (31:16):
Well. I think people will say, I"'m going to think about it tomorrow.” And...
Katie (31:20):
Wait, that doesn't work?
Kerry (31:23):
They like to play Scarlett O'Hara. You've got to everything and it's simple as a thing to do. And it sounds so ridiculous, but if you would just go on one of these mutual fund websites, or the AARP has one, do a retirement calculator. Studies show that if you at least take the time to run a calculator of what you might need if you do step out of the workplace to meet your standard of living that you want to keep up. It just gets you to start thinking about it and makes you realize, and the big fear is, as you know, we don't know what the medical costs are going to be at the end of life for us. We don't know how healthcare is going to continue to escalate as part of our budget. So, it's imperative that when we are healthy and we can earn an income that we just keep at it, because — and please do work you love — because nobody wants to be miserable because that makes you sick too. But you want to just keep at it as long as you can, because we don't know what, you know, that bill might be in the last decade or so of our lives. So, it's very important to do that.
Do run the numbers, do sit down with a planner. It doesn't have to cost a lot. A lot of planners will give you a free consultation, find a no-fee financial planner. Ask friends and family, but it has somebody who is unbiased to really sit with you. That's not going to have skin in the game about making a commission off of what you invest in, but can look at your holistic financial plan and give you some guidance. You want to start that now and then you start to massage it as time goes on. It's going to change. But I think it's really important to work with a financial planner if you can.
Katie (33:03):
I agree because people are experts in certain fields and you can shortcut your learning and your smarts to get, and be given, resources and tools that it may take you a long time to uncover. People could certainly look at any one of your 14, is it 14 books now? Career and retirement. Or head to your website, which we'll talk about at the end and reference in show notes. But you have an incredible wealth of resources in terms of career, retirement, planning for some of the financial needs that sometimes women experience. If they go through a divorce or a spouse dies. Because women sometimes have different financial needs than men if they've stepped off the career track to care for kids. So, you're an incredible resource as well. What do you see for you next in your own career? I know that you've just written your 14th book and that you're busy on a book tour, but where do you see yourself going? Because you're pretty much unstoppable.
Kerry (34:04):
Well, the truth of the matter Katie, is that I absolutely love what I do. And I'm so blessed because as a young kid, you know, when people said, "What do you want to do when you grow up?" I said, "I want to be a writer." And that happened. Yeah, unbelievable.
Katie (34:18):
And you've written everywhere. You've written not only your own books, but you've written, you had a column for...help me out. Was it USA Today?
Kerry (34:25):
USA Today was my last full-time, in-house job. I should say I work harder now than I ever worked when I was in-house. But today I write a column for MarketWatch, for PBS Next Avenue. I write regularly for The New York Times. And so I have lots of different — and the AARP — I have lots of different clients. And the thing about being a writer and what I do is that I'm always learning something new. I'm always educating myself and meeting new people. And it just fires me up on a regular basis. So, I can't ever imagine not working in this fashion because it's really doesn't feel like work to me.
In that regard, I love speaking. So hopefully, we'll be able to get back out on the stages and talking to people face-to-face because I get high off of the audiences and really making that connection with people. So, I'm looking forward to doing more of that, hopefully in 2021. And I actually just signed a contract for a new book for next year.
Katie (35:25):
As I said, you were unstoppable.
Kerry (35:28):
So, I'm going to do a book with McGraw Hill. And we're going to look at what we started talking about today, but I need to really dig in on how the workplace is being transformed because of the pandemic and also the longevity revolution. So, we're going to take a real deep dive into how is it all changing and what can we expect and how can we take advantage of it.
Katie (35:54):
Cannot wait for that. I love the term. I just love the longevity revolution, because we are just getting started. We're living more vibrant, dynamic, longer lives. And there is so much richness to this next chapter. So, I'm excited to hear what you have to say, and what you have to share in that book. You have incredible resources. I would love to know if somebody was just getting excited and wanting to dive into managing their finances or managing their career. Is there a particular product or resource or tool that you would direct them to?
Kerry (36:29):
Oh my gosh. There really are some great resources out there and it's hard for me right off the top of my head to single some out. But you can find some, by going to my website and looking at some of the people I quote in the articles I write, or some of the different resources there. But they're just some really great opportunities to educate yourself about personal finance today. And I really encourage women, in particular, to reach out.
There are some great books, I love my own books, but there's plenty of other good books out there as well. Jane Bryant Quinn has a new book out on retirement. Start a money book club, get your girlfriends together, or it can be a co-ed club, whatever you want it to be but it's really fun to dig into. Instead of reading a good fiction book, let’s read a little bit about money and start the conversation. Because I think women tend to think it's impolite to talk about money and personal finance.
These are things that we need to regularly be talking with each other about. And not be intimidated because I talk to women particularly about money and they say, "You know, I'm not just not good with math.” Or, “It bores me." And you know, none of that is true, to be honest with you. It's simply that they're uncomfortable and they're not confident about the language. And so ramp it up. Raise your hand; ask those questions. And no question is too stupid in this area. And so, there are great free resources online for women in particular. I like WISER,wiserwomen.org, which has some really great tutorials and stuff. And all the mutual fund companies have good educational resources, the book club.
Katie (38:03):
Such a fabulous idea, because everything's more fun with your friends. And, you can really sort of divide and conquer. You could tackle different topics that different people are interested in. And I love the idea of a book club because they're your accountability partners. You know, if you've all agreed to get smarter about a certain topic; your friends are going to hold your feet to the fire. So, that is really fabulous advice. I am going to link to all your books in our show notes, but if you could let our listeners know where they could find you and your books, I would like for you to share that with our audience.
Kerry (38:37):
Oh, thank you, Katie. It's Kerry Hannon, K-E-R-R-Y-H-A-N-N-O-N.com. That's my website. You can go there and you'll find out a lot of my articles. I try to keep shoveling them up there as they come out. And the books are there. I'm on Twitter at, @ KerryHannon and LinkedIn and Facebook. So, you know, cruise around, you'll find me.
One thought I wanted to leave people with Katie. There is this Chinese saying that I always think about. And I'm not going to be able to say it in the language, but it alludes to this idea that when you have a challenge like you're job hunting, or you're trying to get control of your finances, whatever it might be in front of you that we've talked about here today, it's crossing a river or large stream. I love large streams. I spend a lot of time with my dog Zeena going to this big stream out in Virginia that we like. But if you go, you cross that stream or that river, just by feeling those little stones beneath or big stones beneath your feet. You know, if you visualize yourself crossing that stream. If you step from one stone to the next one, to the next one, you eventually get across. And that's how you have to think about your job search or getting your financial life in order. It's step by step. There are lots of running water going all around you, but just when you go slow, and you just take it one step at a time, that's where you're going to get to the other side.
Katie (40:00):
Step-by-step that's such great advice. Thank you for joining us today, Kerry.
Kerry (40:04):
Thank you so much, Katie. I really enjoyed the invitation and the time with you.
Katie (40:08):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. Thanks for listening. And if you enjoyed the show and you have friends or family who want to be financially smarter and is looking for great career advice, please spread the word of Kerry's episode. You can also help us grow by heading to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts to subscribe, rate, and leave a review and visit us at acertainagepod.com for show notes and bonus content special. Thanks to Michael Mancini Productions who produced and created our theme song. See you next time. And until then: age boldly beauties.