Stacy London Gives Midlife + Menopause a Makeover. Plus, Why She is (Finally) Ready to Downsize Her Famous Closet
Show Snapshot:
Style icon and menopause leader Stacy London helps us declutter our midlife mind and closet. We get into how to say goodbye to things that no longer serve us (from clothing to ageist/patriarchal beliefs) and dive deep into reinvention, transformation, fashion, menopause, and the magic of midlife. Plus, why GenX wants to live a values-based midlife, the power of microjoys, and recognizing that life is not black and white—time to get comfortable living in the grey.
Show Links:
Follow Stacy
Quotable:
The first half of our life is the hero's journey (or the heroine’s journey), trying to figure out who we are as people. But the second half of life is the artist's way. Where you can take everything you know about yourself, and creatively put that out into the world in a way that feels post egoic...It's less about me and more about what am I doing in the world?
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Buckle up beauties, we have a fab show today. We're doing a deep dive on reinvention, transformation, fashion, menopause and midlife magic with none other than Stacy London, who wears all the hats and will help us get into all the things. You may know Stacy from her days as co-host and stylist on the long running OG fashion show What Not to Wear. Or, you may know Stacy through her taboo-smashing advocacy in the menopause space. Perhaps you stock your beauty bag with products from her time as CEO of women's personal care brand State of Menopause. Or maybe like me, you've caught the buzz around her return to media and the launch of her new project, Midlife Magic for Pinterest TV. If you believe midlife is a time of transformation and possibilities stick around, as Stacy shares the story of her midlife evolution and ideas for unleashing your midlife magic. Welcome, Stacy.
Stacy London 1:04
Thank you so much for having me, Katie, how are ya?
Katie Fogarty 1:06
I'm excited, I'm so excited. I've been following your work in this space. We've gotten to connect at a couple of menopause events live and I've been dying to get you on the show. So I'm really, I'm thrilled that you're here today.
Stacy London 1:19
Well, it's my pleasure.
Katie Fogarty 1:21
One of the things that I want to explore is really just this sort of theme of transformation in your life. Because I think it's, it's really sort of always been your thing. You know, you share the transformative power in fashion on TV, you did that for about a decade. You are now making women over in a new way, helping women shed the taboo and stigma of menopause and helping them take on excitement for midlife. So I would love to just as a starting point, ask you if you can share a little bit about how you got yourself started on this journey and how you started playing such a central role in the menopause, midlife conversation?
Stacy London 1:56
Yeah, it's actually a pretty straight line if you think about it. I, you know, I think that I've always believed in the power of transformation on several different levels. Obviously most of my career was about the transformative power of style, in terms of you know, how the way you look and present yourself was going to make you feel. And I felt very strongly about that. Because we live in a society where we see each other, right, and, and our brains make a three second judgment, you know, fight, flight, or freeze when we see somebody. And that means something very different in modern day society, but our brains are still judging people the same way. So it felt very important to me to kind of get that across through the medium of style and fashion because, you know, it's something easy and digestible for people to, to take on, and something exciting and proactive you can do with your own life. But transformation itself, it sort of requires proactivity and definitely what happened to me when I turned around 47 was that I was getting calls less and less to be on television. And I was also feeling uncomfortable physically, emotionally, I didn't feel like I looked like myself anymore. I didn't feel like I felt like myself anymore. And frankly, I had no idea what to do about it. And I had no idea at the time that I was essentially experiencing perimenopause and thought that I, you know, I made, I did mental gymnastics to come up with all of the reasons that I was feeling anxiety or feeling depressed or, you know, these big kind of feelings like rage. And, you know, chalking them up to, you know, worrying about my career, or having had spine surgery, or that my father was very ill, all of these things that yes, are incredibly stressful situations, but didn't explain exactly all of the physical symptoms that I was experiencing. And there was no information about menopause and when I finally got a handle on the menopause experience, and that was through being a beta tester for this company State of Menopause, when they decided they did not want to be a product company, I acquired the brand because I thought this conversation was so important. And I went into this thinking, we need to do as much and talk about menopause as much as possible, because this life transformation, this life stage transformation, is not being talked about, and I am pissed off about that.
Katie Fogarty 4:25
But Stacy, you are changing the conversation, like I totally agree that at one point it wasn't on people's radar but I think that you are, not only the fashion and style OG, but also the menopause OG. I mean you were one of the, seriously, you were one of the first women and public figures to really talk about this so openly. And the zeitgeist, I think, is beginning to change a little bit. We see other, you know, big names like you know, Gwyneth Paltrow is investing in menopause companies, and Naomi Watts I know has gotten involved with her own menopause brand and there are brands that are not attached to celebrity names that are, that are making a difference that are coming out of CPG companies, like leaders that are like Womaness and Kindra, you know you, how -
Stacy London 5:09
And I would say that that's one area of menopause. And I would put State of Menopause, the company that I ran, squarely in that category with Womaness and Kindra and Stripes. And, you know, I appreciate that. I do feel like I was very much an OG in terms of talking about menopause. And in fact, some of my fashion friends told me I was committing professional suicide by deciding to take up this mantle. And I was like, you see, you're the problem. The idea that you think that I'm committing any kind of professional suicide instead of evolving my career, to be something about transformation other than style, feels really short sighted and superficial to me in your thinking. Because what I saw was a generation of women, and people, anybody with a uterus -
Katie Fogarty 5:56
Sure.
Stacy London 5:56
- who grew up in this generation, Gen X, getting to midlife and hitting a wall of impenetrable non information about something that they were experiencing. And if you know anything about Gen X, historically, we're a pretty scrappy generation. And we are the generation that grew up with all of the advantages of, you know, dermatological cosmetic procedures. So we do not look like the Golden Girls, we look a lot younger than we did in our 50s in the 80s. Right, so, this idea that we have kind of an age dysmorphia, I think is one thing that bothers Gen X. The other thing that bothers Gen X is we want answers, we always want answers. And if we don't have answers, we go out and we find them and we make answers and we create solutions. We've done that for every area in every stage of our life and we are not going to go quietly into that good night.
Katie Fogarty 6:48
I agree, no, we are not. I mean one of the, the taglines of the show is to like age out loud, you know, we need to be boldly declaring who we are, and we're not hiding things and we don't want to be told that this big chunk of our life is something that we need to be ashamed of or to, you know, feel diminished.
Stacy London 7:07
Yeah, and I would say it's an even, you know, it's even bigger than that, right? Because, because we are not just the benefits, that you know, beneficiaries of good Botox, lets say.
Katie Fogarty 7:19
Or bad Botox.
Stacy London 7:21
Right, or whatever. It's also that we have grown up with much better knowledge about physical health, we understand that walking 10,000 steps a day is important, we understand that sitting is the new smoking, we know that cutting out alcohol helps you, we know that cutting down sugar helps, we know that movement and strength training are so important. Like just generally speaking, we know how to extend our lifespans. And that means we're going to live to be in our 80s or 90s. Easily, if not our hundreds. In fact, I heard a statistic that said that the person who is going to live to be 150 has already been born. Now I don't believe that's a Gen X person, maybe that will happen, but I doubt it. But the idea is that our lifespans are extended so much more as we age, that one, we're going to have five generations in the workforce at the same time and that's going to be interesting for the economy, but it certainly means that 40, 50, 60, and 70 are not old in the way that we have constantly thought about them. Especially as we perceive them for women and sort of gender expansive, folks, right. This idea that you're 40 and you're kind of out to pasture, you have an expiration date. And my argument, as I've you know, really spent more time in the menopause space is that menopause was a great place for us to start this conversation. It was an opaque topic, a medical and health issue that is not really a beauty issue, which was one of the reasons that I didn't feel like State of Menopause was going far enough with the product that we had. And the minute I realized that sort of the message I was sending was not conducive to really getting into the menopause conversation for what it is as a health issue, I decided to close the company, right? It was sort of like I took a right turn and realized it was the wrong right and wanted to get off that product wheel before it became something that felt like snake oil to me. Because well, you know, yes, there was dry skin and dry eyes and dry vaginas and all sorts of things. I don't believe that moisturizer is the answer to the menopause issue. I believe that real education and advocacy is necessary before this consumer can understand the difference between a moisturizer and an estrogen patch and non-systemic estrogen cream. And, you know, what's coming from big pharma and what is coming in the OTC market. And I realized, really also right from running this company, that we have a very reluctant consumer. It's not just that people want to talk about menopause. There's the opposite side of that, that a lot of people don't want to talk about menopause. That they're ashamed and afraid and embarrassed. And that is a very difficult chokehold to get around when you are trying to change the minds and hearts of an audience and a consumer. I was really not doing myself any favors by trying to shill product, when I've spent my life trying to engender trust with my, with my followers, with my audience, and that I was in danger of betraying that trust. I didn't want to show product, I want to talk to you about what options are available to you. I want to normalize this conversation so that you don't feel uncomfortable talking about it. And further than that, I want to get past the menopause conversation, to the midlife revolution, to the renaissance, not the crisis, the renaissance.
Katie Fogarty 10:47
I love that, I'm so excited to explore that. We're gonna head into a quick break, when we come back let's talk about that midlife Renaissance.
AD BREAK
Stacy, we're back from the break and I loved hearing the backstory on why you decided to close State of Menopause, which by the way was a brand that I, that I liked. You said that you were tired of shilling products and you wanted to kind of elevate the conversation beyond simply, you know, menopause is not going to be cured by moisturizers. And frankly, menopause is not meant to be cured at all, but it's meant to be navigated. And it's a transition into a new life stage. And let's talk a little bit about this midlife renaissance that you just outlined, you know, and how it ties into Midlife Magic and, and what you're doing today.
Stacy London 12:48
Sure. I mean, I think you know, the first thing, let me just say yes, you're absolutely right, menopause cannot be cured. That's not the point of it, it really should be seen as a health issue and a life stage. But, and sadly, a lot of my customers loved our product. And yes, our product was great, but it wasn't particular to the menopause issue. And that's what started to bother me. When I started to look at ingredient lists, I was like this stuff is the exact same stuff that you're gonna find in products that you know, market themselves as anti aging. And frankly, what I don't like is the idea that we're attaching beauty and vanity to the menopause project, or to the menopause, you know, sort of state of life.
Katie Fogarty 13:27
Sure.
Stacy London 13:27
Where I, because to me, that's upholding the same patriarchal values that are telling us we shouldn't age at all. And so I really wanted to take a step back and talk about this, not only as a medical stage, not only as a life stage, but really to look at not just what's happening to us physiologically, but also what's happening to us situationally between 40 and 70. Right, what is happening to you? It's what I was saying, I did all these mental gymnastics to explain why I was so anxious, why I was feeling this rage, why I was depressed, why my body hurt, why I couldn't remember things, right. And some of that, of course, a lot of that, has to do with hormonal fluctuation. But we're also at a time of our lives where we're meeting new challenges that we haven't had to face before, like perhaps child care and elder care. Between 45 and 55, for women in particular, Scientific American did a study and said it was the highest rate of decreased earning potential, depression, and divorce. And that is not by accident.
Katie Fogarty 14:25
Sure.
Stacy London 14:25
It is interesting that when we are really dealing with some of the most difficult life challenges is when we are probably least physiologically prepared to handle them. And so we need to look at this from two aspects. We need to see what we can do to bolster our sense of wellness and our physicality. But we also need to, we need tools to be able to manage midlife in a way that does make it a renaissance and not a crisis because I don't believe that we're having a midlife crisis. I believe what's actually happening is that we're trying to uphold the values that we have always been taught to hold dear into a phase of life where they have expired. We don't have an expiration date until we're in the ground. But those values do.
Katie Fogarty 15:12
And when you say values, what do you mean Stacy? Are you talking about -
Stacy London 15:15
Youth.
Katie Fogarty 15:15
- cultural value, oh the cultural value of youth -
Yes.
- and our youth obsessed society.
Stacy London 15:19
Yes, our youth obsessed society, our, you know, what, what is attractive to other people, like this idea of what beauty means. And I really believe that, if we take only those values into this kind of mid stage, we are really missing out on a much bigger opportunity to take advantage not only of what more days on the planet have actually given us, but we are not holding on to new values, like wisdom, experience, power, in a way that really, we should be trading in one set of values for another, because it's a completely different stage of life. And this idea that we are forcing ourselves to hold on to the same set of values is like saying you're going to have the same style forever. You evolve, your life changes.
Katie Fogarty 16:07
Well, not everyone does, not everyone does evolve. I'm sure you've seen that. Some people, you know, keep themselves in one lane forever. And I think, I love this notion of values and asking yourselves like, what are the values that I want in the future? Like do I believe that youth is the ultimate value? Because for me, the answer to that is no. Like when I ask myself that question, is this the value that I hold uphold as I move forward, the answer's no. I mean, I think that a lot of the people that are listening to this show, the people that you're interacting with, do believe that wisdom experience, that power, that confidence, that resilience, and all of the lived wisdom that one has in midlife, are the values that we want to uphold. But it's the, it's the, kind of the world that we're interacting with that can diminish us.
Stacy London 16:08
Well that's the point, right? I mean, one person at a time. We're not going to change culture, unless we start changing it ourselves. And I think that, what that really means is how are, I'm so tired of this kind of reframe, rebuild, reimagine yourself. You don't re- anything. You're building, you're building, we're building a new cultural feeling around this kind of societal judgment at this stage of life, right? It's like, it's not the idea of we're out of fucks to give, which I'm so tired of hearing. It's not being out of fucks to give.
Katie Fogarty 16:52
Right.
Stacy London 16:57
It is really actually understanding that we value certain things higher than we did before. And the idea that you think that people stay in the same lane their whole life, I would argue is absolutely not true. Even physiologically, every seven years every cell in your body is different. You are not the same person, even if you hold on to the same ideology, even if you wear the same black pants till you're dead, something about you will change. And I think that we have to lean into this idea of evolution. I think we have to lean into the idea that change can be good, even if it's scary.
Katie Fogarty 18:02
Right.
Stacy London 18:02
And you simply cannot embrace a new version of yourself or new values for yourself. You're not willing to let go without knowing what's on the other side.
Katie Fogarty 18:02
Right.
Stacy London 18:05
And that is scary for a lot of people. But you know, how often do safety, you know, blankets actually help us?
Katie Fogarty 18:21
Right? No, I, you know, Stacy, so much of what you're saying is making me nod my head I, you know, feel very much in agreement with what you're sharing. Frequent listeners of the show have heard me say this before, that change is not just possible, it's probable. You know, I'm a, I'm a career coach.
Stacy London 18:37
It's definite.
Katie Fogarty 18:38
I'm a career coach at my day job and the average American changes jobs 12 times throughout their career, right, the you know, we -
Stacy London 18:44
That's just amazing.
Katie Fogarty 18:45
Evolution, evolution is, you know, whether, even if you want to preserve yourself in amber, it's just not going to happen. And you identified it, your body changes. From the moment we're born, you know, all we're doing is changing and evolving. And, you know, even if we're still wearing the same black pants, you know, or like, we've like, you know, or like date stamped ourselves with our denim, you know, your life is changing, your relationships are changing, your job and your career is changing.
Stacy London 19:09
And I think your values change, you know, and, again, when I use that word values, I'm using it specifically. Because what do we prize and hold dear right? You know, the same things that were so important to me, like those Prada boots I absolutely had to have in my 20s, you know at my first job at Vogue that felt like I was ready to eat rice for a month so that I could pay my rent and have those boots. And that is not the kind of life that I live anymore. That's not what I'm interested in. That's not where, you know, I want to put my time, or my money, or my attention. And it's not because I don't care about style. That's, that's always going to be with me. But it's really understanding that you know, things that were important to us start to burn away when other things become more important. And we can actually choose what those things are. That doesn't have to happen to us, we can be actionable in the way that we live our lives. So I always say, you know, the first half of our life is the hero's journey, that or the heroines journey, that is us trying to figure out who we are as people. But the second half of your life is the artist way. That is where you can take everything you know about yourself, and creatively put that out into the world in a way that feels a lot more post egoic. Right, it's less about me and more about what am I doing in the world. And that feels like an incredible shift in focus and a different lens through which to look at our lives.
Katie Fogarty 20:40
I love this notion of what am I doing in the world. And, you know, I want to just go back to something you said earlier in the conversation too, about this notion of, you know, society maybe hasn't really caught up, you know, pop culture is still very slowly catching up to the magic of midlife,
Stacy London 20:54
But it is-
Katie Fogarty 20:54
There is still sort of this youth obsession -
- like, you know, Jennifer Coolidge
- and honestly, you know, right, exactly. But it is catching up, of course, we've just saw that with the latest award show season and having, you know, you know, actors,
Stacy London 21:05
Michelle Yeoh.
Katie Fogarty 21:05
Exactly, and Jamie Lee Curtis, people with, you know, ahead of us chronologically, maybe in years, you know, that are, that are finally being given the accolades and the recognition for their, like, incredible talent. So there is this shift. You but I, but I also, I've explored this idea with guests in the past and this notion of, you know, we hear about the invisibility of midlife, and I kind of reject that because I, personally, for myself, I feel more visible right now at the age of 53, than I did when I was younger, when I was trying to fit in or, you know, be agreeable, or, you know, not push back, you know, honestly, and -
Other values, other values we're taught to have when we're younger, right.
Exactly.
Stacy London 21:32
You know people-please and be agreeable.
Katie Fogarty 21:49
You know, or you can be, you're visible to a new audience. And so sometimes I think that part of what we need to do is sort of just, sort of debunk some of the myths around aging in general, because people will talk about the -
Stacy London 21:59
Well how do you think that happens? Sorry, Katie, I would just, I would argue back, right, this is the cultural standard that we have to change one mind at a time. And certainly understand that some of this is internalized, patriarchal values. This is the way that women and gender expanding folks have been thought to think about themselves, right.
Katie Fogarty 22:19
Right.
Stacy London 22:19
What is your value? Socio-biologically, one might argue that if you have a uterus once you can no longer have biological children, what use value do you have, but we are not living in the time of cavemen and woolly mammoths.
Katie Fogarty 22:33
Well excuse me, have you been reading the news recently? Stacy, I'm not sure that I would agree with you. There are tons of cavemen still around.
Stacy London 22:39
Well there are some, exactly, that's absolutely true. And we are still fighting for bodily autonomy, which is terrifying.
Katie Fogarty 22:39
Yes, right.
Stacy London 22:46
But the argument to me is simply that our value and our use value in society is not measured by our fertility.
Katie Fogarty 22:54
Yes. I agree.
Stacy London 22:55
And that is a very antiquated, you know, kind of socio-biologic view. It is one of the reasons we prize youth because we associate youth with fertility. And it's one of the reasons that we sort of reject aging, because it does not imply fertility, right. These are, you know, just basic sort of biologically historic facts. But that is not the society that we're living in. Certainly, as we're moving into the future of AI and ChatGPT, we certainly should be able to think about bodily autonomy, and what we choose to do with our lives our own way, right. And this idea that we have to debunk this kind of idea of invisibility is exactly what I'm saying, is that we need to build a culture of positivity around what it means to be at this stage of life, particularly for people who are not white cis men, right?
Katie Fogarty 23:01
Right.
Stacy London 23:08
Because I think that though, that, that's the prevailing view of when we talk about ageism, right. Men become silver foxes, and everybody else is like an old, decrepit crone. And that's a bunch of bullshit.
Katie Fogarty 24:02
Absolutely, you know, but I think it's, you know, it's, it's the patriarchy. I also think it's, you know, simply because we live in a capitalist society. And that's something, you know, we're,
Stacy London 24:10
No question, no question.
Katie Fogarty 24:11
You know, one of the reasons why we're being you know, sold all these anti aging products and products that diminish us is because of capitalism.
Stacy London 24:19
Of course.
Katie Fogarty 24:19
And, you know, I mean, we just need to start making our buying decisions and support brands that make us feel seen and supported. I, you know, I do not, I've actually been approached by brands who want to advertise that talk about using, they use language, ageist language, like, it'll make you younger, youth-ifying. And I've had to finally say, like, have you ever even looked at what I talk about, this is, we're not a good fit. But I think that's, that's an enormously, and it's tricky, because I, you know, I wonder I, of course, I live in America, and I live in New York, but I, you know, I wonder if this is something that's just sort of, you know, pernicious in the Western world, or if other societies are doing it better.
Stacy London 24:54
Well, you know, look, I think it's endemic. I wouldn't say that there's another economy or economic system that directly makes people feel better about their aging, right? You know, I'm not, but I definitely think that capitalism contributes to these feelings. Of course, the idea of capitalism is that you never have enough, right? Or particularly in style and beauty, it's that if you don't have this new item, or you're behind, you'll look dated, or you won't look as young or, you know, all of these things that you're not, is basically how the fashion and style and beauty industries run. They're run on insecurity. They're run on the fact that if you don't have this, then you aren't something, then you aren't valuable, right? And that is something absolutely, that we need to look at and we need to change. But it also is interesting to me that we're seeing younger generations that are much more concerned with things like climate change, and sustainability, and, you know, these kind of swap parties or mending parties or things where we're talking about how we can create a more kind of circular economic system rather than this kind of gobble gobble gobble capitalism system. And I will tell you, I, you know, I am 53 years old as well, I was brought up as the only measure of success is how many toys you have, right? How much you have, is really sort of how, is reflective of your self worth. I was taught that.
Katie Fogarty 26:22
Yeah.
Stacy London 26:22
I am in the process of downsizing. And, you know, I've lived in my apartment, which is a pretty big apartment, for 17 years. And the idea that I'm downsizing as I have been, you know, going through closets, going through drawers, going through cabinets that are stuffed with shit, I am really resentful that I bought into all this.
Katie Fogarty 26:45
Yeah, it's so liberating to get rid of stuff and you think about all the money that is spent and, you know, and like you, you know, I actually have a friend who's got like 19 pairs of black jeans, and they're all like, different by like a like a, you know, millimeter. And it's just like, it's a lot. To me, I feel like the management of, this is why the Container Store exists. It's like, we need to have like stores to help us like manage all of our shit. I dream, my kids are 22, 19, and 15 so I still have somebody at home, but I dream of you know, when I can just be in an Airbnb in Italy and having these conversations with people from, I don't even want to own a house, like I don't want to, I don't want to own something. There's just like there's, you know, and my daughter, to your point too about the generation, my daughter who's 22 and always looks amazing, is an enormous thrifter. I don't even think she buys stuff that's like coming out of a, out of a store. It's like, you know, there's, she does the rentals for when she goes to parties, and then she's a big thrifter.
Stacy London 27:39
Yeah.
Katie Fogarty 27:39
And she's not shopping in the way that I remember our generation sort of being raised on.
Stacy London 27:45
Yeah, and also it's the same thing with living. You know, most, if you talk to young millennials and Gen Z, they have no interest in owning homes. You know, that was the goal as a Gen Xer. My parents were like, well, you've made it if you can buy an apartment or house. You've made it. And I find it you know, even more, you know, things like The Container Store and Marie Kondo and all of that. I'm not interested in organizing my stuff. I'm annoyed that I have so much stuff.
Katie Fogarty 28:12
Exactly.
Stacy London 28:13
I'm annoyed.
Katie Fogarty 28:13
You're like, I need a big trash bag. I need to just like, you know, or donate.
Stacy London 28:18
I'm not, I'm not interested in like, you know, I talk about my closet all the time, right? Everything, I've always said way before Kondo was, you know, your clothes have to meet one of two criteria, right? Utility or joy, hopefully both, right? That's always been my thing. But the fact is, I'm not even talking about utility and joy here. I'm just talking about sheer numbers of, just like you said, your friend having 19 pairs of black jeans. I wish I could say I thought that was a big number, right? This is the problem.
Katie Fogarty 28:50
You're like 1900 pairs.
Stacy London 28:53
Wait, I'm just talking about 19 pairs of ankle length black jeans, like, 19 pairs of high waisted black jeans.
Katie Fogarty 28:59
Wait a minute, Stacy, I need to see your apartment. This is a very large apartment if you're squeezing in all of these jeans.
Stacy London 29:06
It is a big apartment, I'm not gonna lie. You know, this is also like not serving me anymore, right?
Katie Fogarty 29:13
Yes, right.
Stacy London 29:13
And there is, and I want that to feel like liberation. I don't want that to feel like I had to get smaller, because my life got smaller. I want to feel like I'm making these decisions because I want more freedom in midlife.
Katie Fogarty 29:28
Yes.
Stacy London 29:28
Like, I don't want to be tethered to mortgages, and I don't want to be tethered to having to stay in one place, and I don't want to be tethered in the same way. And I also want your things, less stuff. So that what I have has greater value -
Katie Fogarty 29:44
I love it.
Stacy London 29:44
- to me.
Katie Fogarty 29:44
Yes.
Stacy London 29:45
Right. And I think this is also a function of midlife that we don't give enough credit to, that we don't think about how our values change, how you turn around and you're like wow, 19 pairs of black jeans in any category is way too many fucking pairs of jeans. Nobody needs them.
Katie Fogarty 30:01
Alright, yes, we want the freedom from these fucking jeans. So this is a good segue because I want to talk about Midlife Magic and what you're doing now and sort of this renaissance that you're talking about. And you're helping, you know, shape and share information with women and gender expansive people who, you know, talk to us about midlife magic and what it is and how we create it and grab a hold of it for ourselves.
Stacy London 30:24
Well, you know, and also, I'm still, I'm still deciding on that title. I have to say, Midlife Magic sort of feels kind of corny to me when I think about. It's sort of more like midlife what the fuck, you know.
Katie Fogarty 30:34
Will Pinterest TV let you say that?
Stacy London 30:36
I don't know, I guess that's another thing, I'm not sure. And I also think that you know, it's funny, Gen Xers think they're so cool when they curse. I find it really amusing. But anyway, one of the reasons that I felt so strongly about the opportunity to do this project with Pinterest is that I think it is a really interesting platform, because the demographic is there, right? This, this user is sort of, of the age range that we are talking about, and certainly is interested in, you know, all the wonderful things that Pinterest has to offer. How do you organize your inspiration for redoing your bathroom? Or how do you organize inspiration for the style you want in the future? Or you know, favorite pictures of makeup that you love or things that you want to copy? It's just such a great way to kind of create inspiration in one's life. I think it's such a playground for that.
Katie Fogarty 31:26
Yeah, I do it for recipes, I do it for, I actually do, I do a lot of type font, because I create the graphics for the show. And I love looking at just sort of design inspiration. It's really, it's fun.
Stacy London 31:39
I love packaging, I do fonts, I have a whole thing about paper. I mean, I have as many boards as you can possibly imagine. And the thing that I love about it is that it's not like mindlessly scrolling on social media, where most people, you know, I read that study that, you know, young girls, teenage girls and younger are, you know, I don't know, 60% more depressed than they were 10 years ago. And my immediate thought was, they should do that same study on middle aged women. Because I think that social media is having the same awful effect on women and gender expansive people simply because I think that we aren't getting into that thing of comparison. That you know, it is, if you're scrolling all day long on Instagram, even if you're one, I have trouble looking at it now because it's so hard to find my friends in between the people that I used to follow just because I thought they were cool, or I liked them or I had I thought they had an interesting point of view, and now everything is a paid ad. Every single post is a paid ad. And to me that is not the point of social media, right? It was like this great way to share things. And I think that's getting lost when we're in that kind of compare and despair mode. But Pinterest is this kind of proactive, build your own world, learn your own things, I have a whole board called good to know, which is everything about like the name of every color or sleeve that was ever invented in fashion, or, you know, three juices that are great to drink with low glucose in the morning, right? It's all this kind of informative stuff. And I realized that Pinterest might be a really fun place for us to put together management tools that make midlife and midlife culture feel like a positive singular experience. Whether that's talking about fashion, or exercise, or supplements, or any of the things that we are now starting to look at more seriously in order to keep our health and physical freedom for as long as we can, right? When I go to the gym now to strength train, yeah, okay, have I gained 15 pounds since I was at my like, fighting weight? Sure. I have. But am I really worried about losing that? No. I'm worried that I am not going to be strong enough when I'm 80 to walk by myself.
Katie Fogarty 34:00
Yep.
Stacy London 34:00
That's what I go to the gym for now. That's what I mean about value shifting, perspective shifting. And so when I go to the gym, it's like great, if I wind up fitting in my clothes again, and everything, fantastic, wonderful. But really, the focus is on the future now. Because we also have a much different relationship to mortality as our parents die. We see, you know, that we're next. And that's not to be a Debbie Downer. That's not to be you know, it's not sort of like gallows humor. It's that our relationship to mortality, I think makes life feel that much more worthwhile and valuable to us.
Katie Fogarty 34:35
Yeah, absolutely. We've touched on that. That's a theme also, Stacy, that gets repeated a lot on this show is that, you know, I think it was Mimi Ison of this social media account Hey Middle Age, who posts like really inspiring fitness and dance videos at the age of 59. And she used the expression, the midlife runway is shorter. And again, this is not to be depressing, but it's that it's clarifying, right?
Stacy London 35:03
1000%
Katie Fogarty 35:03
When there's a little bit less time, you know, when it's a little less time in front of us than behind us, we are choosing to become more intentional about what we focus on. And I, I love this notion of clarification, of looking and saying, all right, like, you know, if not now when? Like, I need to prioritize things like functional fitness, so I can lift my luggage into the overhead compartment of an airplane, right? You know, the workout -
Stacy London 35:26
Yes, when I'm 85, when I'm 90, not just today.
Katie Fogarty 35:29
Right.
Stacy London 35:29
You know, so really being able to have that eye that lends towards the future, which when you're in your 20s, you don't really have.
Katie Fogarty 35:36
Stacy, I used to be a smoker, talk about not being -
Stacy London 35:39
Me too!
Katie Fogarty 35:39
- not having a vision of the future. You know, I was like, what? This isn't, you know, how bad could this really be?
Stacy London 35:45
I mean come on. I used to, I mean, there's pretty much nothing I haven't done. And I think about that, I really did, it never occurred to me that I wasn't invincible.
Katie Fogarty 35:55
Of course.
Stacy London 35:56
The closer you are to birth, and the farther away you are to death, you know, and again, no day is promised to us. So in a lot of ways, it's sort of like, people always say to me, you know, you've got to live every day, like it's your last and I'm like, No, live every day like it's your first.
Katie Fogarty 36:10
Oh my god, I love it.
Stacy London 36:12
No matter what the last day looks like, every day you should meet it with as much wonder and curiosity as possible.
Katie Fogarty 36:19
Oh my gosh.
Stacy London 36:19
That's what makes life interesting, not thinking that the end is nigh. It's thinking, what am I going to do today that's going to be wonderful? What about my day am I going to infuse with magic?
Katie Fogarty 36:30
I so adore this notion, bringing wonder and curiosity to every day and I'm going to take that on. I actually wake up in the morning and do three things that I'm grateful for because it just, you know, because oftentimes, like, your to do list crashes into your brain. And I might just, you know, try to incorporate that, like, how can I greet this day with wonder and curiosity? Because there's always an answer to that. If you're asking the right questions, you can find the right answers. And if you set the intention that you can approach this day and have these two things, you know, you're gonna, you're we look, we find what we look for. So we can find wonder and curiosity as we move on. Stacy, we're wrapping, keep going finish your thought, because then we're getting into our speed round.
Stacy London 37:12
Yes, of course, okay, sorry. I mean, I agree with you so much. And I was thinking about just this idea that, you know, some days that is not possible, right. And one thing that I am, I wear a necklace that says And every day, because, well one, it stands for a new dawn and a new day, but it also stands for two things that were more and can be true at the same time. And you and I can be having this conversation about, you know, greet every day with wonder and magic and you know, think about the fact that you know, being you know, in closer proximity to death makes everything more clarifying. And I just, as a side note, I do believe that Gen X is actually going to change our relationship to death to make it much more comfortable for us. But that's another story for a different time. But more importantly, is this idea of, you know, you can want all of that, you can see all that, you can write in your gratitude journal every day, and still feel like shit. This is a process. And this is something that is, it takes time, it doesn't work every day, we are slowly changing this culture together. And it is, it is really now my life's mission, not just for you to look good, so you feel better, it's that you feel better so you always look good. Because there is something about the way that we need to feel about ourselves at this stage of life, that has not been reinforced for us. And the self confirming bias that you are talking about, if you know you find the right answers if you're asking the right questions, we need to start finding the right you know, breadcrumbs to leave trails for people who come after us so that this age range becomes something to look forward to, something that is freeing, something that is exciting. Instead of this idea that we're falling apart. Part of us is, part of us is falling away. But we have to be ready, open, and willing to embrace what's coming. Because that's the way I think this becomes the best part of life.
Katie Fogarty 39:07
Fantastic. I absolutely, I love that notion. And when you said the word 'and' on your necklace, it reminded me I had a wonderful guest on a few episodes ago, Cindy Spiegel, who wrote the book, Microjoys, about finding, finding hope, especially when life is not okay. And the entire book is about the idea that two things can be true at one time, you know, you can be mired in the deepest grief and also have moments that tether you to joy, you kno. And as we get older, I think we, we either get better at this or we learn that we have to because, you know, to experience grief and joy is to be human. And you know, there's just no way around it. It's a wonderful episode. I would encourage anyone to listen to it. And I am so grateful that we're ending on this note.
Stacy London 39:58
Yeah, I think that just that idea of, you know, grief and joy, that these things exist on their own, right. That they aren't flip sides of the same coin is what you know, sort of encourages black and white thinking instead of the gray area that we all really live in. And I love the idea of micro joy because I think that's really, as we get older, we have to be attenuated to that. We have to be looking more granularly at our lives. Things are not obvious, we can't sort of make these broad generalizations. That, that's what you do as kids when you have less information and less experience in the world. So you know, I think that kind of fine attenuation to what, what joy, what grief, what is happening right now, what am I feeling? Why am I feeling this? There's a necessary constancy of self awareness that we have to engage in, in order to really kind of use our life experience to its best value.
Katie Fogarty 40:57
I love this. I love this. Stacy, thank you so much. We're gonna do a quick speed round. And I almost feel like we should just be ending on that note, because it was so beautiful, but I know that our listeners like this and it's kind of a fun way to end, so we're going to do it anyhow. So creating your new project, which is right now called Midlife Magic, but that too may evolve. What is the one word answer about how it feels to create this new endeavor and bring it out into the world?
Stacy London 41:25
Oh, magical.
Katie Fogarty 41:27
Magical. I love this. Okay, I'm curious. Is there a new skill or, like, a new personal quality that you feel that you have in midlife that eluded you when you were younger?
Stacy London 41:41
You know, I, my, the first word that came to me is patience. I'm getting better. I wouldn't say I'm there, but I'm definitely getting better.
Katie Fogarty 41:49
I am so with you. I've improved but by no means have I mastered it.
Stacy London 41:54
I'm no zen master.
Katie Fogarty 41:55
Yep. What has surprised you most about getting to midlife?
Stacy London 42:00
How hard it was.
Katie Fogarty 42:02
Yeah.
Stacy London 42:03
I mean, if I'm being honest, it's that I was, I was not prepared. And I think that's the biggest issue. I think not being prepared really knocks you off your, you know, I was gonna think knocks you off your socks, which makes me sound like I'm 80. But I just, I feel that, you know, I wasn't prepared.
Katie Fogarty 42:22
Yes.
Stacy London 42:22
And so I wasn't ready to understand the nuances that we've been discussing in this very podcast. It's the kind of thing that I think, the more we talk about, the more, the easier it's going to be for us.
Katie Fogarty 42:35
What's a value that you, we talked about the shifting of values and claiming new ones in midlife, what's a new midlife value for you?
Stacy London 42:44
I think this idea of less is more. And really this, this kind of notion, whether it's capitalist or that, you know, certainly my generation was brought up and many generations before me were brought up to think this way, you know, is that having more means that you're somehow more valuable as a person. Nothing, and no one outside of me, whether it's a thing, a person, a job, anything, really has any effect on my self worth.
Katie Fogarty 43:15
I love that. Finally, your one word answer to complete the sentence, as I age I feel:
Stacy London 43:21
More tired.
Katie Fogarty 43:24
You know what, I feel pretty tired too today. I was out, I was out with girlfriends. I was at Indochine last night with girlfriends from high school I haven't seen in forever. I had way too much wine. And I woke up this morning and I'm like, you know what, I feel you know, it's a little harder to bounce back once you get to 53.
Stacy London 43:43
That's my feeling. I was with my girlfriend on Saturday and we were like, okay, we went to Pastis for lunch and it was rainy. And we thought okay, let's have some red wine because it's nice and like warm and whatever. And I'm listen, I can, I can put it away. It's just the next day, I can't get up.
Katie Fogarty 44:01
You should have been at our table last night. I think we were scaring the waitress, but.
Stacy London 44:04
That's hilarious.
Katie Fogarty 44:07
Well oh my gosh, it was so funny. Well, she she got a very big tip because it was a very big bill. Let's just put it that way.
Stacy London 44:14
I bet. I think that's essential.
Katie Fogarty 44:18
Yes, of course.
Stacy London 44:18
I think that, it is all the things that we know about our health like again, that is a micro joy right there. To go out and drink bottles of wine with your friends at like one of the best places ever to exist in New York City. That's, that's magical.
Katie Fogarty 44:33
It was, it was a total magical midlife joy and I, and this conversation has been as well. It's really such a treat to spend time with you. I admire the work that you're doing and the way that you've really just sort of helped elevate and change the conversation around this time, this life stage. I'm excited for this and I'm grateful for your time, I appreciate it.
Stacy London 44:55
Thank you so much, Katie.
Katie Fogarty 44:55
But before we say goodbye, how can people continue to follow you, your work, where can they find you?
Stacy London 45:00
Yes, well, you can actually find me at pinterest.com/stacylondon and you will see all of the clips that we did for Midlife Magic. So originally that was a two hour live series. We've cut, with like five different speakers, we have cut it up, basically so that you can take actionable items away from each of these clips. Things that you can do to help better yourself or educate yourself or feel good about yourself in midlife. Attached to those are shopping boards that have things that you may want for your health, that you may want for your style, or you don't, listen I'm not encouraging anybody that they have to buy anything at all. As my less is more theory proves. But also on Instagram, you know, I'm @stacylondonreal on Instagram. I'm doing a series of IG lives on Instagram as well. None of them are paid. These are not paid promotions, I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in giving you information on services and products that are out there that will really, you know, be of assistance to you in midlife because there was so much that I didn't know and I want to make sure I spread the word.
Katie Fogarty 46:06
I love it. All of that will go into the show notes. Thank you Stacy. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to write an Apple podcast review. I see and appreciate you, reviews really do matter since they help other women find the show. Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly beauties!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai