All Things Midlife Fun, Fabulous, and Weird AF as A Certain Age Celebrates a Third Birthday
Show Snapshot:
A Certain Age celebrates a third birthday! A special co-host joins host Katie Fogarty to dish on all things midlife and aging—the fun, the fabulous, the weird AF—and what’s next for A Certain Age. We cover how the midlife and menopause landscape is shifting in pop culture, lessons from the show, and why midlife agency starts with information. Plus, a fresh take on the ACA speed round and Katie confesses what g**awful habit she’s picked back up and is trying to kick.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to a certain age a show for women are unafraid to age out loud. Today we have a very special episode of a certain age. It's our third anniversary show. And since we're all about aging out loud, you know, we could not resist the chance to give this birthday a big noisy shout out. Get into midlife teaches us that we just celebrate all the things revel in another trip around the sun. seize every opportunity to take stock of how far we've come and honor what makes us older, better, wiser. beauties. I want to thank you for showing up every Monday and making a certain age part of your week, and for helping the show grow. A certain age now has downloads in 127 countries across nearly 9000 cities. Thank you for being a friend of the show. We are celebrating with some fun party favors along with amazing giveaways from ACA guests. We have books from authors and some fantastic products to put in the mail. Sign up for our newsletter age boldly over on a certain age pod.com To get your party favor and be eligible for the giveaways now on to the birthday show. We have a switch in show format as always for these birthday shows. We have a former guest co hosting and I am on the hot seat. Please welcome back to the show writer and memoirs Laura Friedman Williams. Laura is the author of the memoir available a very honest account of life after divorce has written for British Vogue and performed at the storytelling event generation women. She is a fabulous writer, a beautiful storyteller, the essence of midlife reinvention. And most of all, she is proof that it is never too late to meet a new old friend. I'm so delighted that my dear friend Laura is here today to host the show. Welcome, Laura.
Speaker 1 1:48
Hi, Katie. So, I'm going to start by congratulating you, because obviously, you know you're having an anniversary. So that's exciting. And I do want to say on top of congratulating Jude when I say that, in the, in a couple of years since we, since you interviewed me, we become friends outside of outside of podcast life, which has been really such as it's so lovely. As you said, a new old friend is amazing. And I have to say for everybody listening, that your generosity and the way that you are always trying to connect to people on your show, is also what you do in real life. It's like a very genuine and authentic quality that you have that I like admire and love. So I just want to say that for everybody that you were the real deal, but the way that you present yourself on your podcast is also who you are, which is really nice.
Katie Fogarty 2:42
Thank you Laura. I love hearing that. Thank you so much. That means so much.
Speaker 1 2:47
Now it's it has been so helpful to me the way you tried to connect me to other people that you really want to bring people together that your that your goal is always to bring people together now because I am always a little bit inappropriate.
Katie Fogarty 3:00
This is why we're friends. Laura, why do you think you're co hosting the show?
Speaker 1 3:05
I'm gonna start with a question about you know, midlife aging that I think is just important just to get on the table, which is if you had to choose if you could get rid of skin hairs or crepey skin, like if forever you could say I'm going to I'm going to live with one of these but I can't tolerate the other which would it be
Katie Fogarty 3:27
waste to thin hair or crepey skin this is like
Speaker 1 3:31
in hair no chin hair, thin hair. No like hair or crepey skin you have to pick you're gonna you're gonna get rid of one but you have to live with the other.
Katie Fogarty 3:42
I'm going with Shin hairs I'm getting rid of Shin hairs I have no I have zero interest in the beard and I just feel like crepey skin is part of the deal and I there's so many beautiful women that are rocking crepey skin and I intend to be one of them and I'm thinking of a woman that was on the cover of I think it was a Vogue in the Philippines and they featured an indigenous woman who I think was like 104 and I could be getting some of these facts wrong and I'll I'll try to figure it out for the show notes but she you know it was rocking her crepey skin and it just looked stunning and comfortable. And her skin even though it was starting to sag and just you know had this sort of inner beauty and glow and so I feel like I'm you know I'm down with that. I'll tell ya I'll take crepey skin
Unknown Speaker 4:32
that's although I do wear a lot of game
Katie Fogarty 4:34
I do wear a lot of sunblock. I'm very Irish, so I'm hoping and I'm also one of those people on the beach that is always in a mumu is always under an umbrella I do not like like I don't have like a sexy beach look I've got like a very very bundled up beach look so I'm thinking my skin won't be you know creepy that quickly.
Speaker 1 4:54
Well, yeah, I mean, I feel you I feel like the creeps come in other places that don't even know the sun. You know, it's like that Just what happens underneath
Katie Fogarty 5:03
we have vaginal estrogen for that, Laura, by the way.
Speaker 1 5:07
Interesting. I told you to my kids are always vying for, like, Who do you love most who's your favorite. And finally, like a few months ago, since then you know who my favorite is the one of you who comes to the nursing home and tweezers, my chin hair. That's who my favorite is.
Katie Fogarty 5:21
I know your favorite is the child is giving you the least amount of trouble at the time. But Laura, you're not even going to see those chin hairs when you're in the nursing home, because our eyes are gonna be fully shot.
Speaker 1 5:31
It's just the respect issue. I just want them to respect that I want them gone.
Katie Fogarty 5:34
I get it. I totally.
Speaker 1 5:36
Thank you. So I want to just more seriously, I've been thinking a lot about transitions in life, and that midlife is obviously a huge transition. You and I both have daughters who are 23, and recent college graduates. And I've been thinking about the ways in which their lives are standing like in this very open way ahead of them, we have no idea really where they're going to end up and what their path is going to be. And I'm interested in the path that so many of the themes, to me of their early 20s are actually really resonating with me in midlife. And I wondered if you have thought about this, you know, with your daughter graduating and moving on in her life, if you thought, well, being 50s, in some ways is a lot like being in your 20s. Again,
Katie Fogarty 6:23
that's so interesting, you know, there? I mean, yes, and no, I would say what we haven't, what I think that I have in common with my daughter is that we're both like, super excited about what's next. And there feels like this, this blank canvas that we get to really fill in. But you know, where I think where I diverge from my daughter is that I, I hope I'm past some of the pitfalls that might be in front of her, which are, you know, this sort of the struggle to know yourself and to sort of feel confident as you as you do these new, you know, embark on these new adventures, I really I feel like that I am not constrained by the things that I was constrained out when I was her age. And who knows, I mean, you know, grace is very different than I am and Annabelle is very different from you, they're a different generation, they might not feel those pressures to fit into a box or to conform or, you know, so maybe they're skipping over that some of those things. And, you know, it's interesting, Grace has been editing my podcast transcript for the last year from from school, she was looking to make extra money, and I pay her to edit the shows. And so I feel like that alone, you know, that level of information that I never had about things that were coming down the pike, like, like menopause, like body changes, and she's been hearing every single week from women, who, when they look backwards, you know, feel sort of confident, and resilient and strong. So, you know, who knows, maybe maybe this, this different generation is not going to fall into some of the pitfalls that I felt like I at least did have at you.
Speaker 1 8:02
What are you saying? Yeah, I mean, I think was interesting that she's been following along. It's funny, because I was listening to someone talk, they were podcasts about the woman who wrote the article about menopause that was in the New York Times, you know, that was so much attention. Yeah. And she was talking about how, like her friend's daughter had read it, like who was in college and was like, wow, this is such helpful information for me to know, because someday, I'll know this when I need to know it. And I don't, I don't feel like my kids would ever do that. I feel like they don't want to know what's ahead. And so much like they're, they, it's like, they see me as being older and they'll kind of like poke fun at the things that are the hard things about growing older, but they're also not interested in me being limited in any way. Like they're constantly encouraging me to go back to school or find another career. That's what I want. You know, they don't they don't see me as having like a limited shelf life, even though they are definitely acknowledging the ways in which I'm getting older. It's such a multi,
Katie Fogarty 8:59
we've such an intergenerational like world these days, in so many ways, like, I know that you're close to your mother and your kids are close to her as well. My kids have that same experience. And, you know, we have, you know, we don't wanna get into politics, but we have you know, our President right now as the oldest president we've ever had, you know, before this, we had you know, Nancy Pelosi, you know, so people are seeing like very and we're seeing women winning award shows and on the cover of Vogue who are older in different ways and so I do think like this ageism has not gone away and it's not dead, but there is more exposure to people thriving across generations that I think younger than younger generations had and even in terms of music like you know, my boys will go see like dead and company with my with my husband, you know, no one went to see music with their when they were growing up. I mean, it's like, I know, I know dead in companies in this Soulja act, really, but yeah, There is just this more the generations are more intertwined in some ways that they were in the past. And I think that's great because it makes it less. You know, when you see role models about what it means to age, it's like, look, you can be 53 like my husband and still have fun at the concert. Like, you don't feel like you're gonna grow up in the finance, you know? Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1 10:21
agree with that. It's funny, I was talking to my daughter recently, and I said, my favorite thing. I'm in Rockaway Beach for the summer. And my favorite thing is to ride my bike at night, like in the evening, not when it's dark, but like all bike and get a drink or walk or bike to get ice cream. And she goes, Oh, my God, Mom, you're biking drunk. You're like, one drink, and she was drunk. Biking is the best. And I go, I mean, honestly, you've had a broken leg and a broken wrist in the past year. So I'd say it's probably not. But I but I would it was a very funny conversation of like, I can't believe my mother 52 Is try biking to the local bar and back again, like that's, you know, she was sort of like blown away by that. Yeah, all the things I've ever done that have impressed her. That was tops.
Katie Fogarty 11:04
I love it. We can still remain young and fun. Laura, we're heading into a quick break. When we come back. We're gonna keep on going. Laura, we're back from the break. What's next?
Speaker 1 11:14
So in the past three years since you started your podcasts, have you noticed a shift? I mean, do you feel like you started the show? Because you felt like there was a lack of conversation about certain topics. And in the past three years, you've seen a change where there's more openness about it?
Katie Fogarty 11:30
That's such a great question. You know, I started the show, because I just wanted to launch a podcast. I was excited about exploring this medium. You know, I love I love audio. I love podcasting. I love storytelling. And I had kicked around the idea for a couple years. And I really couldn't settle on what I wanted to talk about. And I think I've shared this story on the show in the past, but for people who haven't heard it, I My day job is as a career coach and I had to converse, I had two conversations in a one week span. That really clarified for me what I wanted the show to be about. And I spoke to two women who were rock stars. One is a good friend who runs a restaurant one is a college friend who had two books on the New York Times bestseller list. And then a one we expand. They both told me that they didn't want anyone publicly to know, they were over 50 The author writes YA books, the restaurant or says that, you know, the restaurant industry is very ageist. And it really, you know, it shocked me. And it also kind of this me off because I was like, not with them. I mean, they they were right to feel what they feel about the professional spaces they operate in. But it really like outraged me that we can't achieve career success. And expect to keep it if people think we're too old or that in some ways aging diminishes your your talent and your contributions and your experience and your relevancy and that that was like truly that that, you know, cliche, like light bulb aha moment. And I was like, this is absolutely what I want to talk about. So, you know, I did start it for fun and have a passion. But then I really became extremely excited about trying to sort of shift the narrative of what it means to get to midlife and to age and I feel lucky that I started this podcast at a time when there was really an explosion of interest in the midlife space. I 100% feel like things have changed in the landscape. A lot of this so much more conversation about menopause, for example, and the impact that it has on women's both physical sort of spiritual and emotional life. And that the the article that you referenced is a great point, Sue Dominus, in the New York Times wrote an article called women have been misled about menopause. But there's been an explosion of interest in creating services and products, not just products for menopause, but surfaces like telehealth better education, better access to the care that women need. And there's a lot of conversation around around midlife. So there has been a great shift, I think, and but the shift is just it's just the beginning. It's like, yeah, you know, it's just like a seesaw is just beginning to tilt in the right direction, because there is still so much fear and concern around ageism. I hear it from people in my day job every week. So I feel like the conversation is moving in the right direction. But every single person who's listening to the show, I think has a role to play in it. You know, we need to age out loud in the spheres that we operate in with professionally and personally. And you know, it's also like you and I were just talking about our daughters. I think it's beyond just creating a better space for ourselves right now, but it's like really extending a hand backward to the generation that's coming up behind us and letting them know that you know, get into midlife getting to 50 6070 and beyond doesn't doesn't necessarily limit things for you.
Speaker 1 14:59
Yeah, That's a really encouraging answer. I like it. I mean, I think that as you're saying, we're moving in the right direction. And of course, we're not there three years, and I can see there, but it's really nice to know that you feel that there's been a positive shift in three years. And hopefully, we'll continue talking about I do agree, I think with so many women, you know, going gray, you know, publicly like celebrities who really like Andy McDowell, I think it was who was photographed with her her like silver hair, you know, in those it makes such a huge impact really gives us
Katie Fogarty 15:30
I love her. Yes, I totally agree. That's a great, that's a great point. There's so much more, you know, the sort of silver hair evangelists, it's like, you would not have seen that back in the day. And that's, that's changed as well.
Speaker 1 15:41
Yes. And I just want you know, I wish there was more from, you know, women in their 50s and 60s and 70s. And beyond to show like, the crepey bodies and to say, like, this is what happens, what might happen to your skin after it's been stretched out with multiple pregnancies and like, that's a beautiful thing, because it means you live the life.
Katie Fogarty 16:03
Yep, absolutely. Well, there's a I had a guest on the show, Stephanie O'Dell, who runs a gray haired modeling agency called Celebrate the gray and one of the criteria for big being celebrate the gray model is that you haven't done like a lot of you haven't done big, like plastic surgery on your face, like they they're looking. And this is not to say that, you know, we can have a conversation around this too. Like I've done like Morpheus, like needling for like collagen production and there's like, everyone gets to choose their own adventure and there's no right or wrong around this. This is I want to be very clear about that. But they're modeling agency really specializes in women who have debt who just aging naturally. Because you know, there's a role for that also. And so I love that that's, that's an option that's on the table. I love seeing brands like Bobbi Brown, Bobbi Brown cosmetics who now has Jones road beauty she has, you know, frankly faced 16 year olds and women who are gray haired who are clearly in their 60s or 70s mod modeling her cosmetics. And you know, she's not just marketing to older women. She's marketing to every woman but she's choosing to use mature models. And that's that is also something you didn't see in the past.
Speaker 1 17:18
For sure. No, definitely not. That's it's exciting to see that it really is as we get older and getting older gets cooler, it's definitely encouraging to be in that space. So I'm curious to know in in the shows just whatever pops into your mind like this the most surprising thing I guess that's ever said to you on a show.
Katie Fogarty 17:38
Um, oh my gosh, that's a really hard one. I
Speaker 1 17:41
mean, good or bad surprising, like something that was just kind of steered the conversation a different direction or just made you like something that you come back to in your mind all the time.
Katie Fogarty 17:49
I come back to so many things in my mind all the time. I mean, I'm honest, I'm like a broken record. I learned something. I learned something on every show. And, you know, I guess like the the sort of biggest umbrella idea that I've learned that's been surprising is that the doctors that are caring for you don't necessarily get it. And that was a shock. I mean, I like I literally thought like, when I went to my gynecologist that, that she was taking care of everything. And the answer is it's not true. And that gynecology really focuses on your reproductive years and sometimes, you know, needed gynecological surgeries, but there's very little education and information about menopause and even sexuality, like, you know, when was the last time your gynecologist asks you, if you orgasm regularly, like Probably never. And never. And it's like, why is that part and parcel of you know, taking care of your, your health, you know, it's like good for your tissues, and it's all sorts of stuff. So I was really, you know, the I launched this podcast 35 days before I before I turned 51. And it was an enormous education to realize like wow, like the people that I think reminding the shop aren't necessarily so you really do need to educate yourself, educate yourself about bodily changes and how to care for your, your aging body. So that's sort of like a big picture idea. I mean, yeah, I guess some of the I'm trying to think of is there was like another like, superduper surprise. I talked about this sometimes. Vonda Wright who came on the show Dr. Vonda right, who is an Orthopedic Surgeon and an expert in bone health and actually, you know, aging vibrantly. She's studied, she's done a lot of research into senior Olympians. And I was surprised to learn that you can build muscle and look your bones don't like you start to think you fall apart and that decrepitude is inevitable. And that's actually a terrible word. But like you think falling apart is a natural part of aging. And I was pretty surprised to learn that that doesn't have to be the case till you're about seven days. So I think those are really important myths to bust because if we just think that like falling apart is inevitable, we're sitting on like the sofa eating right Pringles or at least I am, you know, but when you realize that there's a potential to to maintain physical muscular skeletal health, then we're invested in do Think so. So I think like, so that's just sort of one example. But I'm also sometimes surprised to about, you know, I did a urology show and I had a urologist come on to say that, you know, sneeze ping and like being afraid to run for the bus or like leaking urine is not inevitable either. And that most of these things are fixable. And I had a number of women reach out to me, including two former guests who had been on the show to tell me that they went to see that urologist and that urologist, oh, wow, she did kind of blow my mind because I said, When should women come see you? And she said, most of my patients come to see me 10 years too late, and that they have literally been suffering for 10 years. And that's astonishing. There is Yeah, God we keep talking about the the SU Dominus article in The New York Times women have been misled about menopause. But there's a great quote from a urologist in that article, Dr. Rachel Rubin, and she said, in America, we have a high cultural tolerance for women suffering. And that is enraging because it's true. You know, and raging because it's true. And, you know, a lot of and I've learned from making these shows that a lot of women suffer from a host of things that, that they don't need to so I guess those are some of my big surprises.
Speaker 1 21:20
Yeah, those are good surprises. I mean, I think those are pretty transformative. I think just even the idea of surprise that women don't have to suffer, right, you can actually have agency. And I think it was funny, because the Arctic that the podcast, I was listening to where the woman who, who about menopause article, they use the word agency, like four times. And it was funny, because by the time they said it again, I was like, I was counting, you know, clearly, I was like, wow, they're really into this idea of women having agency. But I do think that it is such a reaction to all the years in which really, women have not had agency where doctors are making decisions for them, or their husbands are making decisions for them. Or were like they're just not being taken seriously. Yep. And so, so as much as it's, it might be having, you know, the word agency might be having its moment, I appreciate why, yeah.
Katie Fogarty 22:13
Agency begins with information. You know, you cannot take agency over things that you are not informed about. And you know, the reality is like, we need to demand more of our medical system, like there's just not even enough information and research on women's health. And that's also part of the reason why, you know, women have not been taking HRT for the most part for two generations, because there was some bad science, that that happened with the Women's Health Initiative, and that none of the science was bad. But the misinterpretation of the science created this sort of knock on effect for women were denied, you know, the right information to make choices. So you know, know that that information is go find the information that you need to make the decisions that are right for you and your body. Because every everybody's body is different.
Speaker 1 22:57
Well, that's where a show like yours comes in handy, especially because I think a lot of women are very private. And they're not sitting around talking about menopause, or chin hairs or vaginal dryness. I mean, I do because I talk about everything. I'm not a private person, obviously wrote a book about sex. You know, we made
Katie Fogarty 23:14
a very good book, everybody needs to go check out available if you haven't already, because that's going in the show notes. Katie,
Speaker 1 23:20
Katie, but I'm not a private person. And it has served me well. You know, I think sometimes it's more defined to my kids. But I'm like, the more you talk to people, the more information you get, you get ideas that you wouldn't have thought of, and we're all the human experience is very common. And also very unique. So you never know, when you're going to get the a piece of information that changes you or helps you. So I just would encourage also, you know, women who are more private and are listening, but maybe not talking about these things, to talk about it, you know, because it helps it helps to laugh about it, too.
Katie Fogarty 23:56
I love that's such a great prompt. Thank you, Laura, I love that.
Speaker 1 24:00
Because I know that you You're such a planner and a very thoughtful person. I'm curious if you have thoughts on where you want your show to go, you know, having the hindsight of where your show has been for three years, if your directions that you see like, I've talked about a lot about estrogen and I've talked a lot about menopause and but I really haven't covered X yet.
Katie Fogarty 24:20
Such a good question. You know, I I've been thinking about this actually, because we have some reader questions we're going to do at the end and one of them is very similar. And it's like what sort of an action maybe I'll just say it right now. So Christine Morrison broden does ask what changes would you like to see in show format and What topic are you dying to cover and I would love to consider doing some solo episodes. I've listened to a couple of podcasts where we're hosts do that and I think that could be a fun. I you know, I wouldn't do them regularly but maybe quarterly as sort of a recap if there's something going on. Topics that I'd love to cover that I haven't gotten to yet I would love to explore cannabis and micro dosing you know, I know that's something that's become increasingly popular. We haven't had anyone on talking about those topics. Or anyone even really doing CBD, you know, sort of beyond something with you know THC psychoactive, isn't it? So I would love to explore that because I think people are interested in that super nerd I want to do a pickleball show because I'm obsessed with pickleball. And listen, you listen, getting to midlife means like owning your whole self. And I'm willing to admit that I am a midlife cliche, and I enjoy pickleball. So I want to do a show on that. But those are sort of specific topics. In terms of where I'd love to take the show, I want to keep doing, I want to keep doing it. I love doing this every Monday, I think I would like to explore the idea of doing some video components. And you know, in terms of other formats, I definitely 100% want to do a live event, I've got an idea I'm kicking around, and if I get it up and running, everyone's gonna know about it. But I'm also I'm still working on on a book, but I it's I'm gonna confess it's a really slow burn. But it's something that I would love to do. I would love to capture so many so many of the lessons and so much information I've learned on the show in a in a book. Since I'm also in addition to being a pickleball nerd, I'm a big, big buck nerd.
Speaker 1 26:27
Well, along those lines, I'm also curious, I think people who would have been listening to you, they know that you're very eloquent. You know, you're smart. They follow your Instagram, they know you're beautiful that you have a beautiful family. What is something that would surprise us to know about you?
Katie Fogarty 26:46
Oh, my gosh, I would say would be surprising that
Speaker 1 26:52
like, I'll tell you I recently took a bottle of coffee made out of the fridge to put on my coffee like French Vanilla coffee mate and a friend was over and was like, I can't believe you drink this. Like, this makes me so happy to know you're not a purist that you drink the like chunky stuff in your coffee. And I said yeah, I love coffee, mate. I love it. It's so gross.
Katie Fogarty 27:12
And I love it. It's so funny. You know, we all have like why love Pringles? I don't know if that's a surprise. I think a couple of times. I guess if I were like to be totally honest, I you know, I have been a smoker in my past and I've been going through a stressful period of time and I've been like having what I call a sneaky peek e cigarettes occasionally. So that's maybe that's a surprise because I've also had doesn't surprise me because it's so stupid. It's so stupid. So that's probably like my big confession. And I you know, it's it's not a it's not a good thing, but it's it's maybe that's a surprise that honest it's it's not Yeah, it's definitely not good. It's not good. But you know, I'm going back you know we can we can do hard things which I've said on the show before. So I'm doing the hard thing of not like, you know, Medic, it's so funny. I was a smoker. I was raised in New Yorker, I think like to go to a private girls school in New York. Matt, you had to smoke. It was like part of like wearing a uniform. I'm joking. It's like stupid. But anyhow, that's what it was. It was the 80s you could smoke and movie theater. So it was a bad thing. And for the most part over the last, I'd say 20 or 30 years, cigarettes have not been a part of my life. Like, you know, maybe if you're on a vacation or blah, blah, blah, but I have been going through a stressful time in my life. And I love I don't know, it's just like, it's so escapist because it's so dumb. And whenever I have a cigarette, I'm instantly 16. And as much as as much as we're age positive, sometimes it feels delightful to be an unencumbered. 16 year old with absolutely zero pressures. Zero. worries, zero, you know, so, anyhow, but anyhow, I'm working on it. It's like an
Speaker 1 28:54
attitude. There's like an attitude that it is, like blowing the smoke out.
Katie Fogarty 28:58
Exactly. It's so dumb. But anyhow, the more I talk about it, the more I want a cigarette, so we have to like move on. But by the time I'm doing the fourth birthday show, I'm committing to having this be 100% in the rearview mirror. Okay, but
Speaker 1 29:13
I really do want to applaud your honesty, because, you know, sometimes the things that are surprising about us are also kind of like, you know, we don't necessarily want everybody to know, like, I don't necessarily want everybody to know that I still think like a bowl of Lucky Charms is fine. But I do and that's the truth about me is that I go high low and my lows are low. So you know, it's it's okay, these are just this is just who we are. Another question I have about the show, you know, three years worth of shows. That's a lot of shows by how many shows is it? shows have you done? Do you know?
Katie Fogarty 29:46
I just did 145. So I think this is going to be this might be 148 by the time it airs or 49 Amazing Yeah, okay, that's
Speaker 1 29:54
amazing. Are there any that you I don't want to I don't want you to work for gret that's wrong. Read that I mean, but were there any moments that you had where you thought? I probably shouldn't have said that or should have done that, or that show left me feeling a little bit like that was not quite right.
Katie Fogarty 30:11
Hmm. That's such such. You know, I'm thinking about that. Yeah. My Aunt Margaret recently said to actions, my aunt Mary recently said to me, every time you have an author on the show you love the book. And I'm like, Yeah, because i That's why I put them on the show. So I feel like for the most part, I don't have regrets. Because I, I, this is my podcast, I produce it. I invite everybody. So for the most part i Everyone has come on as somebody that I'm really excited to have there, who's whose work I believe in? And I'm excited. You know, I'm just trying to think. No, I don't I don't think I do have a regret about any of the shows. I you know, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 30:55
That's good. I'm not like trying to find it. No, no, no, no, I
Katie Fogarty 30:58
literally, I'm thinking out loud, like, my wheels are turning and I. And I really feel like, to me, that's one of the most beautiful things about this project is I'm in charge of it. And I love that, you know, I have worked in the past at PR firms, I used to write the morning news, I worked on Capitol Hill, I was always telling stories, but I was always doing it for other people. And now I'm, I'm in the driver's seat. And I love that it's a very good place to be
Speaker 1 31:24
amazing. I mean, it really sounds amazing. It actually what it's making me think that's kind of interesting is that every week, you have a chance to reset. So if there are thoughts, you know, if you, if you have a theme that you're doing and you want to build on it, you can keep going. And that is the beauty of a podcast format. And unlike a book, where you know, you write it, and it's done, like months before it actually is published. So by the time it comes out, you might have new thoughts, or things that you would have done differently, but it's too late. It's memorialized now, yeah, exactly. I have some of those regrets. Again, I think regret is a strong word. But I regret I think, like, for example, for me, in my book, I was in a very, like, privileged position when I wrote that book, you know, I was still technically married, and my husband was just kind of, you know, supporting me. And I was doing my thing out the world because we weren't living together anymore. And since and a lot of people did comment that I was that I didn't realize, I didn't remark on how privileged I was to be able to have the freedom that I had, because my soon to be ex husband was financially supporting me. And I do regret that and I didn't, I don't, I didn't have a chance to reset, because the book was out there is done. It is what it is. And it does make me cringe a little about it, because I'm in a different place now. And now I really understand just how privileged I was.
Katie Fogarty 32:47
But it was a snapshot in time, you know, and I think that was a snapshot. It was a snapshot in time. And, you know, that's that was your experience, then. And it's hard, you know, I wouldn't beat yourself up and look back, but it's, who knows, maybe that's that's book too, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1 33:03
But I do appreciate that, uh, you know, I think like, the beauty of the podcasts, and I'm a huge podcast fan, you know, I love podcasts is that there is an ability to just keep moving forward in it, you know, and to evolve. I mean, that's one of the beauties of being able to look back on a life on a show on a project is that hopefully you're seeing some evolution, you don't want to be in the same place as you were.
Katie Fogarty 33:23
Absolutely. That's why we're doing it. It's so fun to look backwards and just sort of think about, you know, when this podcast first launched, my first guest was Dr. Anita sadati, a friend of mine, we were live in the studio together and I, I intended to do a dozen episodes, I said I'm going to do 12 episodes, and then if I'm still enjoying it, I'm going to keep going and I would could not have envisioned that I'd be here three years later, you know, 148 shows hanging out with Laura who I met on this podcast, you know, and we hang out in real life, it's like, you know, so many things have happened from creating the show. And I would just say that, you know, we're kind of nearing the end of our time but I want to like make sure I share this with listeners that if there's something that you've been thinking about doing, it's just hard to hard to get an action because you don't know what the end is going to be. You don't have to like I just you know, just get started you never know where your efforts and your energy and your enthusiasm will take you because I have been surprised by where the show has taken me and how it continues to evolve and I love it that's why I keep doing it.
Speaker 1 34:26
But also you're really in it and I want people to understand that also that you really walk the walk you don't just talk the talk you know you put yourself out there to constantly be experiencing new people and connecting people and so I'm so I'm saying at the end what I said in the beginning, which is that I applaud you for doing that because I think that's that's why you've been successful at it I think because you take it to the next level. You know it's not you're not here for 45 minutes and then like the rest of the week is what it is. This is what you do. Like this is your these are your passions and your interests. and you carry that into every part of your life. And I think like, I as a listener, I feel that and it makes it very worthwhile to like listen to who you've chosen as somebody that we might be interested in.
Katie Fogarty 35:14
I love it. Thank you know, I try to serve there's so many different women doing amazing things and that's actually why I've launched this other Instagram community and everyone should like click clack over there which is called at let's say, out loud on it. Let's age out loud on Instagram because I truly believe like midlife awesomeness is 24/7 I've met countless women there more women than I can possibly have on the show her up to amazing things who are reinventing their careers, their their love lives, their health, their creative endeavors. I mean, I am knocked out constantly by everyone who listens to the show, and everyone who's ever been honored or everyone who's ever pitched me. And there's just so much terrific vibrancy in this phase of life. So I'm happy it shows that I that I love it and I care.
Speaker 1 36:00
Yes, and it tells me it's encouraging. If this is all it's very positive. It's nice to hear things that are positive ones. So Debbie Downer over here. I'm just kidding. I'm not a Debbie Downer. I don't even know why I say none at all. No. I like to think of myself more as like a Mary sunshine. So I love it. Um, so I have I have a bunch of like, super fun questions. I want to ask you. Let's do it. Okay.
Katie Fogarty 36:29
This is Laura's version of the speed round.
Speaker 1 36:31
Yeah, I have some or whatever. They're gonna be fun and silly. Okay, if you had to give up dairy or gluten, which would it be?
Katie Fogarty 36:40
Oh my god. Definitely gluten.
Speaker 1 36:42
Oh, I can't give up. I didn't see that coming.
Katie Fogarty 36:45
I can't give up ice cream.
Unknown Speaker 36:47
But gluten is that your Pringles can you give me a prion? I
Katie Fogarty 36:50
could give a Pringles I could give it print. I can't give a Yeah, tell him a chocolate peanut butter ice cream. that interesting. Yeah, that's my that's my other virus besides my sneaky peeky cigarette from time to
Speaker 1 37:02
okay, if you had to speak another language for the rest of your life, not practical. What would it be?
Katie Fogarty 37:09
Portuguese? I'm dying to move to Portugal. I've never even been and it's like my last I'm like I like I like I see myself in Lisbon surrounded like blue and white stuff drinking red wine hanging out. Yeah, the sun.
Speaker 1 37:23
I Portugal is a very like solid aspirational choice. I feel like it's Portugal is might also be having its moment. Okay, you have to move to another American city. Which one is it going to be?
Katie Fogarty 37:36
Denver? Interesting. I was in Vail. Jennifer's not failed. But I was in Vail last September and I just like fell in love with Colorado and it's just gorgeous. And so I would let you know Denver seems like a good jumping out. Maybe boulder? I'm not sure. I don't know either one of them that well, but I love the idea of maybe being at West like that. But
Speaker 1 37:54
not like another you know, you're not interested in an urban city. So that's interesting. You're talking about more of a you know, something totally different. It's like
Katie Fogarty 38:01
a fantasy like, you know, fight. Yeah, fantasy,
Speaker 1 38:03
fantasy. Spin and in the world of fantasy. If you could be an amazing singer or an amazing dancer, which would you choose?
Katie Fogarty 38:12
So as a singer, singer, singer, singer. I'm such a bad singer that when I went to Catholic school, the nuns used to tell me to mouthy the hymns. In church and Madigan. They were so mean sister Smith was like, Don't sing. You just have to mouth and I was like, you know, that's rough.
Speaker 1 38:29
That's amazing. My kids keep reminding me that years ago, they had a contest for who was the worst singer in the family and that I hands down one hand. I'm like, That's amazing, because I think I sound really good. And they're like that.
Katie Fogarty 38:40
I know. I sound really confident you are I know I sound terrible. So that's, that's a skill I would love to have.
Speaker 1 38:46
Okay, that's fun. Okay. rainbow sprinkles or chocolate sprinkles chocolate. Okay, you could go outside skiing or sit inside by the fire which would you choose? Fire? God
Katie Fogarty 39:02
I'm all about the pray. I'm all about the pray. Yeah.
Speaker 1 39:05
I'm glad. I'm glad that I'm on that together. Your fantasy career? He could could have been anything could still be anything. What would it be?
Katie Fogarty 39:13
I would love to be a graphic designer. I love design and I sometimes I you do a lot of work on Canva but I feel like it'd be fun. I'd like to. I'd like to know more and be more talented at it.
Speaker 1 39:26
You have to give up coffee or cocktails. Which one is it going to bang?
Katie Fogarty 39:29
Oh my god, Laura. This is
Unknown Speaker 39:34
a universe in which you never want to.
Katie Fogarty 39:36
Oh my goodness. This one's tough. You know, I guess. I guess I'll say coffee. I guess I'll say coffee because I only drink coffee. I only drink coffee in the morning. Like I love a cup of coffee in the morning but I guess I could get over that. But yeah.
Unknown Speaker 39:49
Wow. Interesting. Okay, favorite thing to cook.
Katie Fogarty 39:53
My favorite thing to cook?
Unknown Speaker 39:56
I just think nature meal.
Katie Fogarty 39:57
I don't have a signature meal. I cook a lot I'm like a recipe follower like my husband. He's like he's the creative cook and I'm I'm like an executor kind of cook I'm, I just I'm like, oh my god there's chicken in the fridge. You know let me Google chicken like it's I don't I'm not I don't know that I have a signature I make I make very good brownies but I still that recipe my sister in law Cathy's interesting you can use her best espresso. Espresso sea salt brownies. I'll put the recipe in the show notes. They're amazing.
Speaker 1 40:27
Okay, that's like a that's not just a brownie. That's like a Betty Crocker Brown. Yeah,
Katie Fogarty 40:30
this is like a world class brownie. But yeah.
Unknown Speaker 40:34
Okay, favorite childhood cereal?
Katie Fogarty 40:38
My favorites Lucky Charms. It's so funny that you said that because I was not. First of all, did you know that lucky charms are gluten free. I know this because my daughter is free. And we have a tradition in our family called Birthday cereal, which my mom started you're only allowed to have sugar cereal on your birthday. So I grew up in a family of four. So like four times a year we were like, lit up with excitement. And I do that with my kids. And my one of my kids like picks a different cereal every single year. He's like, he's like that and Grace every single year gets lucky charms. So yeah, Lucky Charms.
Speaker 1 41:14
That's such a kinship to you right now. A lot of people don't get it and I just feel like they're the thing about Lucky Charms that are in my mind unique is they're just as good with milk as without
Katie Fogarty 41:26
marshmallows. There's like dry, marshy, there's just you never
Speaker 1 41:29
know where you're gonna get in your bite. If I surprise every time that's a stare really the magical surprise. favorite flower.
Katie Fogarty 41:38
I love love love peonies, but I also like have a sweet spot for hydrangea because I don't really grow peonies successfully. If somebody gives them to me, yes, but I have so many hydrangea bushes that I like love and tend to like they're my children. Hydrangeas, maybe yeah.
Unknown Speaker 41:54
I get that. I get both of those. I mean, I'm a big planner person too. Are you more of a fuzzy slipper gal or flip flops?
Katie Fogarty 42:01
Fuzzy Slippers. I see fuzzy fuzzy. Okay,
Speaker 1 42:05
so you don't so it sounds like you don't mind winter too much. I mean department Denver limbers. About the fireplace. Your seems like you've got that. Okay, so finish this list. This is my these are my my three essentials. I would say. Like the things I can't live without food. Facts. And books were what was the middle one? Food, facts and books. That's my list. That's my top three things that I'm not going to live without.
Katie Fogarty 42:32
Okay, definitely not live. Right. I'm not living without avocados. That's not happening.
Speaker 1 42:39
Not just food. You're not even going with the catchall avocado. Oh,
Katie Fogarty 42:44
I thought I had answered them specifically. Okay. Oh,
Speaker 1 42:46
I'm sorry. You have your what's your list? What's your three things that you're like? These are my three can't live without?
Katie Fogarty 42:52
Oh, got it. So I would say I can't live without having my family. For sure. I can't live without Bikram yoga. Which I know is like, you know, hardcore. Sounds hardcore matches. It's total stress buster, and I can't live without reading.
Unknown Speaker 43:13
Interesting. So reading family and yoga.
Katie Fogarty 43:16
Yeah. Raiden family and yeah, I guess I could do all three of those things in like one day, if I could throw Rosae in there as well for for a while you can
Unknown Speaker 43:24
because you just gave up coffee. It's true. You chose the rose over the coffee with your family while doing yoga now. Okay, Katie, this is my last question. What is your go to song? You feel good? You feel sad? This is the song you put on?
Katie Fogarty 43:40
I absolutely love Michael Franci song the sound of sunshine. It always makes me happy. Oh, sweet. It's phenomenal. I'll put that in the show.
Speaker 1 43:50
Yeah, I like how quickly you have that answer. Yeah, I feel like that's hard. You got to go through like a big treasure trove of you know, music to get to the one. I love it. Alright, very good. You're You're good at this. You're you're you're gonna you're gonna
Katie Fogarty 44:02
like that. This was so fun. Laura, thank you so much for coming on and hosting. I so appreciate it. You are the best.
Speaker 1 44:09
I'm flattered that you wanted me to and it was truly my honor. It's very rare that I get to be in the driver's seat. And it was fun. Thank you.
Katie Fogarty 44:17
We all love the driver's seat. This was super fun. This wraps a certain age show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. Don't forget to sign up for our weekly newsletter age boldly over on our website a certain age pod.com To get your party favor and be entered into our giveaways. I want to close by thanking everyone who has helped play a role in making a certain age Dave Goldberg of digital waterworks for audio production editing, Jane Green in the Emerald Audio Network all of our sponsors, my children, Grace and Milo Fogarty who edit the show transcripts. Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music, and special thanks to each of the amazing women who have come on the show as guests to share their stories. smarts and sparkle. Thank you to Laura Freeman Williams for joining me today. I am so proud to be aging out loud with all of you see you next time and until then, aged boldly beauties.