Women Over 40 Feel Younger, Sexier, Cooler Says Ad Executive Katie Keating
Show Snapshot:
Surprise! One in four Americans is a woman over 40. And pop culture and brands get this affluent, powerful demo so wrong. Women over 40 feel younger, sexier, and cooler than ever, says longtime ad creative Katie Keating, who co-founded ad agency Fancy to help brands speak to women over 40. We talk ageism and creativity, plus the tools and mindset required to launch a business in midlife.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. Less than .01% of creative agencies are women-owned. How Katie and her partner beat the odds to launch creative agency Fancy.
2. Work in an ageist industry? Starting your own biz may be the job security you need.
3. Fancy survived 500 women over 40 – what they learned may surprise you.
4. Women over 40 are affluent, educated consumers – how to talk to them like they count.
5. How women want to be seen as more than mothers.
6. Pushing through fear to start your own business, how to leverage your experience and midlife confidence to start something new.
7. Business building tips, prioritizing health insurance, forming an LLC, how to price your service offerings.
8. Recognizing there is never a “perfect” time to start a business – just get going.
Quotable:
We learned that women really wanted relationships with brands but that they were totally left out and that they were pissed-off about it; they were saying things to like, “I have more money now than I’ve ever had, I feel really good about myself, I want to buy things and nobody’s talking to me. What, is my money no good?”
When you’re older, you’ve seen a lot and done a lot and you have more confidence in yourself and your place in the world.
More Resources:
Katie in the news:
1 in 4 Americans is a woman over 40. So why do so many feel ignored? – Fast Company
"Not Your Mother’s Tiffany" campaign sparks backlash – Marketing Brew
Follow Katie:
Katie’s business website Fancy
Follow Katie + Fancy on Social
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (0:04):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to out loud. I’m your host, Katie Fogarty.
Here is a surprising stat: 1 in 4 Americans is a woman over 40. So why do so many of us feel invisible and ignored by pop culture and brands? Today’s guest is somebody who’s made a career out of putting women front and center in places where women of a certain age are often invisible: ad campaigns, commercials, brand conversations and more. Katie Keating, a co-founder of New York City-based creative agency Fancy, is one of Adweek’s Creative 100 and a regular contributor to Adweek Ad Age and Fast company. She launched her own company in midlife, at an age where so many start to count women out. She’s here to share ideas for getting your own business off the ground plus data-backed insight into how to connect with women over 40. Because if you have a business, women over 40 are the ones buying what you are selling. Welcome Katie.
Katie Keating (1:03):
Hi, it’s so nice to be here, thanks for inviting me to the party.
Katie Fogarty (1:06):
Yeah, well, thank you for saying yes. I am always so appreciative when people, I drop into their inboxes and they agree to be guests on the show. Of course I’m always happy to be hanging out with a fellow Katie. [Katie Keating laughs] and you know it’s funny because I spend a lot of time podcasting, anyone who’s listening knows me through podcasts, but the other platform that I spend a lot of time on for my day job is LinkedIn and that’s where I first learned about Katie’s work and learned about her advocacy and championship of women over 40 and, you know, how she got onto my radar screen. So I’m really excited that she’s here today and that I get to talk to her by Zoom versus over LinkedIn. So thanks again.
Katie Keating (1:50):
Great.
Katie Fogarty (1:50):
Katie, you’re a co-founder of Fancy, which I said, which is 100% women-owned and operated which is unusual because only 0.1% of creative agencies are women-owned. How did you and your co-founder decide to launch this agency and why did you do so?
Katie Keating (2:08):
Well, there are many different paths that sort of converged at the same time to make us launch the agency. But essentially, when we did it, 3% of creative directors were women. There was a stat that came out, of the 3 Percent Movement, hence the name of the movement, and that was in 2011, which was when we founded the agency. And we were just kind of gobsmacked by that statistic and we couldn’t even really believe it and then we started looking around the agencies where we were, these big blue-chip global agencies and you know, we were just sort of like, “Man it’s true, and we’re in the middle of this, and how is it ever going to change?” And then at the same time we also were looking around the agencies realizing that of those 3% the amount of women really started to drop off as they aged. And at that time, I was 40 and my partner Erica was I think 46 or something like that, at the time, and we thought, you know what, if we stick around we’re gonna get fired for one reason or another, or we’re just gonna go running screaming out of agency.
Katie Fogarty (3:27):
[laughs] Neither option sounds appealing.
Katie Keating (3:32):
Exactly. So, even though it sounds totally bonkers we really thought long and hard about it and we were like, you know what, we need some control over our lives and over our future and we can’t depend on advertising industry as usual to take care of us. So, the most sort of, conservative and forward-thinking that we could do was to quit our secure jobs and go out on our own and try to see what we could make happen ourselves; it really was a terrific decision as it turns out.
Katie Fogarty (4:14):
Yeah, isn’t it wild to think about setting off on your own and building something from scratch somehow feels more stable than sticking around where you are?
Katie Keating (4:23):
Yes. Totally, because at any point, you know, you could be fired. The agency could lose an account, somebody could have it out for you, you could simply just—which happens a lot in advertising and I’m sure other industries as well—you just become too expensive.
Katie Fogarty (4:42):
Yes, I hear that refrain all the time. My day job is helping senior executives and business owners create strong LinkedIn profiles and professional branding and marketing materials, and every client I’ve had thinks they work in the most agist industry. I hear that all the time. People are concerned about aging in place and making themselves vulnerable. So, I love that you picked up stakes and built your own thing. Your focus is really unique. Fancy focuses on helping brands connect with women over 40 and I know that Fancy has done a lot of original research on the over 40 female customer and I would love for you to share with us, who is she? What does she want? What has your research taught you?
Katie Keating (5:27):
Well, it’s a funny question because she’s very hard to define. You know, at no point in a woman’s life is she more dissimilar to her age mates. Between the ages of say, 40 and 50, this woman could have college-aged kids, she could have a grandchild, she could have a toddler; and that’s just if she’s a mother. She could also not be a mother at all, she could be married, she could never have gotten married, she could be on her third divorce, she could be starting a brand new career or the same career and starting a new version of it, her own company, like what I did. Or she could be an intern in some totally new—we had an intern at Fancy one time who was over 50 years old. She was just really interested in changing what she was doing and she wanted to explore advertising and it was amazing to have someone like that in our group. There is just really is no way that you could stereotype this person. You really have to dig a little bit more than just targeting “women over 40” when you’re thinking about this consumer.
Katie Fogarty (6:49):
This is so fascinating. You’ve crystallized something that I’ve never even thought of you’re absolutely right; women over 40, we’re not a monolith, we’re not homogenous at all. You’ve blown my mind when you said that we are so dissimilar from each other, never at any point have we been so dissimilar. And I’m thinking, when we’re in middle school, we’re all in 6th grade together or you’re all in college. But when I look at my own peer group, my oldest daughter is 21 and one of my best friends from high school and one of my best friends from college both have only children that are 9. So, even though we all went through, you know, pimples and keg stands together, we are so different now because our lives have put us in this different zone. So, how do you help brands understand this 40 plus market. Actually, let’s take a step back. Do brands want to understand the 40 plus market? Or have they just written us off?
Katie Keating (7:50):
Well, that’s interesting. So I think that it’s changing and I think that they’re starting to get hip to it now. When Erica and I decided to have this, sort of, specialty as part of our agency, we first started just focusing on women of all ages, and we still do. But we knew at a point that there was this real opportunity for brands, honestly to make money, because they were leaving it on the table by not including women over 40. So, that’s when we did that survey that you referenced and we talked to 500 women about what they thought about advertising and marketing and how they were included or not included, as it turned out. And the thing that we found out was when we went and talked to brands afterward, after we had this survey and we had all this information and we learned that women really wanted relationships with brands but that they were totally left out and that they were pissed off about it; they were saying things to us like, “I have more money now than I’ve ever had, I feel really good about myself, I want to buy things and nobody’s talking to me. What, is my money no good?” Those kinds of things. So we went to brands and their first reaction when we would talk to the marketing people was, “Wow that’s so cool, yes completely, I totally understand, this makes so much sense.” And they were reacting like humans whether they were marketing director or whatever, that was their first reaction, and then they kind of pulled back a little and put on the old marketing hat and were like, “Well you know, we don’t want to alienate our core customer, we don’t want to alienate somebody who we really want to represent be representative of the brand.” And we’re thinking, are you crazy? Do you know who is actually purchasing…
Katie Fogarty (9:50):
Sure. Women of a certain age have all the spending power and they make all the buying decisions in their household; anything from insurance to cars to makeup to whatever. It kind of boggles the mind. So did anyone say yes? Did some brands get it?
Katie Keating (10:05):
What they said was this was a really great idea, because we were talking to them...
Katie Fogarty (10:09):
That sounds like “Womp, womp.” The moment you hear, this is a really great idea, you’re like, you’re not buying what I’m selling, are you? [laughs]
Katie Keating (10:17):
Right, they’re like, “It’s a great idea, but don’t make it your whole business.” And so we didn’t and it was a good thing because we would have completely been out of business if this was our whole business in 2018. And the interesting thing though is, I really do think it’s changing now. In the last couple of years we’ve done a lot of projects that have focused on this age group and I think it’s also changing because there are a lot of brands that are being formed by women over 40 for women over 40. I mean, that whole menopause category is just exploding and it’s showing that there’s a real need and there’s now, finally, women who aren’t afraid to talk about and to put cool products out for this category.
Katie Fogarty (11:10):
Yeah, but it’s even beyond menopause too. I’ve had Sonsoles Gonzalez, the CEO of Better Not Younger, the haircare brand on, she created a product simply for the over 40 market. There are you know, sex toy companies, there are sexual enhancements, lubes which is started by a company called Tabu, T-A-B-U, there’s a whole range of…
Katie Keating (11:33):
Those Tabu people just got, I just saw this morning that they just got half a million dollars in funding.
Katie Fogarty (11:40):
Yay!
Katie Keating (11:40):
So yeah, it’s not only the brands but it’s now I think there are funders recognizing that this category of women is actually really important and it’s actually very profitable if you can reach them the right way and offer them something they actually want.
Katie Fogarty (12:01):
Yes. You know and I think about, there was that whole kerfuffle that happened a few weeks ago when Tiffany’s, the jewelry company, launched their new ad campaign where they were saying, Not your mother’s Tiffany’s. And the Twittersphere blew up and people were angry because they were I dunno, suggesting that one generation is better than the next. I’m also thinking, I get it, brands probably want to get in with young customers so they can grow them over a lifetime, but then you don’t get to kick them to the curb once they hit a certain age, it seems so silly. So, what was your take on that jewelry ad and what would you have done differently?
Katie Keating (12:40):
Well, you know it’s funny, as a creative person in advertising I thought that that headline and that whole concept was kind of lazy. We’ve heard it before with different brands and it was disappointing to see it from Tiffany. Because, you know, what they’re talking about is products, jewelry and silverware and things like that that are designed to be heirlooms and passed down from generation to generation. So when you say this is “Not your mother’s Tiffany,” you’re not only disparaging an entire generation and multiple generations of women who are older, you’re also disparaging your own product saying, “Your mother’s Tiffany is no good.” As a marketer I think that that’s sort of crazy talk to disparage your own brand that way. And then also when you dig around on their website, on that page, they’re showing, while saying this is “Not your mother’s Tiffany,” they’re showing this classic Tiffany, Elsa Peretti pieces and you’re just like, but wait a second, my mom actually had that, that is actually my mom’s Tiffany and now I’m wearing hers and she gave it to me and are you telling me now that I’m you know, a 28-year-old and I’m wearing a bracelet that my mom gave me that was hers…it just was so crazy. It made me bananas.
Katie Fogarty (14:11):
I totally agree. By the way, I have a big Elsa Peretti heart necklace that I wear all the time so I am team old Tiffany’s. Not that I mind having new products, but you want to be communicated with in a way that feels like the brand understands who you are and appreciates you.
We’re gonna take a quick commercial break but when we come back, I wanna hear a little bit more about what you might have suggested, what brands get it right, and more insights into this over 40 market. We’ll be back in just a minute.
[Ad break]
Katie Fogarty (15:41):
So, Katie, we’re back from our break. We just talked about how Tiffany’s got that whole ad camping wrong. What’s a brand that gets it right? That talks to the 40 plus consumer well?
Katie Keating (15:51):
Well I think I’m a little biased because we’ve done some work in this category. We did a project for Hair Biology which is a P&G brand and I think that their point of view on talking to women sort of boldly and beautifully, and they are for women over 50 this brand, I think they’re doing a great thing. I think, as you said, Sonsoles with Better Not Younger, I think she’s doing a terrific job of connecting with women in this group. And I think Stacy London has recently taken over the brand State of Menopause, I think that’s doing well also.
And I think what makes these brands work really well and communicate really well with women of this age group is that they’re just very honest about what life is like at this point. They take in the case really of Stacy’s, they’re taking a stand. These brands have power and might and they can do a lot to move the cultural needle and it’s like getting a big snowball rolling or something. It’s hard at the beginning and you feel like you’re shouting into the empty canyon and then eventually more and more people become able to participate in the conversation and it becomes more and more normalized.
Katie Fogarty (17:34):
Yeah of course. Yes, they buy in. This is exactly why I launched this podcast, I got tired of people telling me they couldn’t admit to being 50 publicly and our unofficial hashtag is #ageoutloud. If we don’t start aging out loud, it’s never going to change. We can’t be embarrassed about admitting we’re 45 or 50, 55 or 60 forever, because we’re never gonna change things.
I want to go back to Sonsoles for a minute, I learned when she came on my show, Better Not Younger, most of the models she uses on her website and to market her products are her friends. When she went in search of models, you know, professional models to model her product, they didn’t feel real, they were these fake people. And we see this all the time, where women are advertising like Depend’s panty liner things and they’re like 35. You’re like, “That woman is not wetting her pants,” or they’re like 100—which you know, nothing wrong with being 100, it would be amazing to get there and be healthy and live vibrantly—but there’s this whole middle gap…
Katie Keating (18:39):
A hundred percent.
Katie Fogarty (18:39):
…where they’re not using real people. And I think you touched on when you said Stacy London with her menopause brand, Hair Biology or Better Not Younger. The reason why they feel authentic is because they are—they’re actually using real women.
So, what was something that you learned from the real women that you surveyed that surprised you when you conducted your survey? Was there anything that you were surprised to learn about this 40 plus consumer?
Katie Keating (19:06):
Yes, and it was that like, 80% of them felt stronger, cooler, or sexier than they ever expected that they would feel at this age.
Katie Fogarty (19:16):
Yes! I love this! You are talking our language. It’s so true. I feel much more confident…
Katie Keating (19:24):
Oh my God, totally.
Katie Fogarty (19:24):
…much more secure in myself, in my friendships, where I want to choose to spend my time, how I want to choose to spend it. I think we’re also decisive consumers at this point too, people need to be talking to us because we know what we want and if you put something in front of us that we want, we’re gonna buy it. So, I love to hear that this spirit is backed up by your research. Was there anything else that surprised you?
Katie Keating (19:53):
I mean, some of the stuff, well—
Katie Fogarty (19:56):
Or made you sad. What were some of the questions that you were asking?
Katie Keating (20:03):
Well, we asked them do you think that brands play a negative role in the perception of women over 40? 76% said yes, they do feel that. 80% felt that brands perpetuated negative gender stereotypes and gender inequality. So, I mean, that was sad, that was just sort of like, oh man, you know, let’s do what we can to change that.
Oh! Another really surprising thing was that 9 out of 10 mothers that we surveyed, so obviously not everyone’s a mom, but 9 out of 10 mothers wanted to see more brands showing women in roles other than Mom.
Katie Fogarty (20:48):
Interesting.
Katie Keating (20:48):
So, it wasn’t just that the non-mothers were like, "Ugh enough with the portraying of mothers.” Even women who are mothers really want to be portrayed as having more to their lives than that.
Katie Fogarty (21:04):
Yes, we’re multidimensional. One of my recent guests was the author Angie Kim who left a legal career, she had a very celebrated legal career and she became a published novelist at the age of 50 and when I asked her what was the one word that she uses to describe how she feels as she ages, she said, “Kaleidoscopic.”
Katie Keating (21:24):
Oh wow.
Katie Fogarty (21:24):
Which I thought was such a fabulous word. She’s multifaceted, she’s multicolored, she’s a mosaic of all these different experiences. And I think sometimes brands want to put you into a box and they want to put you in a very young box.
Katie Keating (21:40):
Right. That’s a really beautiful way to describe it. I haven’t heard it described that way before but I’m gonna repeat it because it’s so beautiful land so accurate.
Katie Fogarty (21:51):
Yeah, it’s such a great word. And I was like, but also, how do I spell that? [both laugh]
Katie Keating (21:55):
Good thing it’s a podcast.
Katie Fogarty (21:57):
I had to look it up. I’m like, all right, that’s a great word I’m not sure if I can spell it. But it’s true, there are just all these different components to us.
So, speaking of different components, I want to switch gears for a minute because I want to hear a little bit about how you built your own business. A lot of the women who are tuning into this show are either thinking about launching businesses. I’ve had a lot of women who’ve come on who’ve launched brands or launched small businesses for a variety of reasons; either they age out of corporate life as you indicated. You and your partner saw which was the wind was blowing and you knew that you needed to carve out a new niche for yourself. And sometimes people just burn out, they’re not pushed out but they burn out and they want something new for their second or third act. So, what would be your advice for getting a business up and running? Let’s just start at the beginning. How did you know it was time to hang out your own shingle and what gave you the courage to go for it?
Katie Keating (22:56):
Well, it was something that we talked about. I think everybody in advertising is like, “If I had my own agency I would be doing it this way.” Or “Things would be different,” or, “It wouldn’t suck like this” [Katie Fogarty laughs] or whatever and so, but at the time, both my partner and I were the breadwinners for our families so we couldn’t just slam the door on our job.
Katie Fogarty (23:24):
Sure, on the bread.
Katie Keating (23:26):
Yeah, on the bread, yeah. So we said, “We can’t do that without a client.” And then it’s a long story how it happened but we had a client ask us to be our agency and we said, okay, well this one client is great—and actually it was a client that was focused on women over 40, as it just so happened to be—and when we really dove into doing work for her and her brand is how we really were like, “Oh my god, nobody is talking to this age group appropriately.” And we just did the work and did the creative from the heart instead of getting all marketing-y about it and it turned out really great.
So, we thought, this is a great brand and we’d love to be a part of it and it doesn’t replace our corporate salaries but it takes the edge off of the panic, how hard could it be to get another couple of these accounts and it’ll be great? Well, turns out it was actually really hard. But you know what they say about what you don’t know like it’s good to be dumb…
Katie Fogarty (24:41):
Sure. It gets you going, if you knew everything that was coming down the pike you may never get started. I do like that insight that you shared, that sometimes you need to start small with one client and that maybe it’s a side hustle and you start building steam before you actually leave; that’s one great strategy if you’re looking to start something new. The other is to sort of save money or to position yourself so that you’re ready for next. So, obviously, other clients came you know, right?
Katie Keating (25:10):
Yeah, I think if you can at all afford to do it, then you just have to do it. It’s like having a baby, it’s never going to be the right time, there’s always gonna be some reason why you can’t start your business. If you don’t actually really want to do it, you will find a way to not do it.
Katie Fogarty (25:30):
Yes.
Katie Keating (25:30):
But kind of the way I operate is to sort of just do it anyway. Unless it’s going to be devastating to me or my family financially then don’t do it. But you have to sort of just walk into the fear because there’s going to be a million things in your business that are scary and what I realized—and it didn’t take me long to realize this and it was actually really great but I had to start the business first to realize it—is that people, even your competitors, want you to succeed. There’s really room for everyone to be successful and have the clients that they want, and there are, I think as time goes on, and I think this has really changed in the last 20 years, is that women everywhere are holding the door open for other women and it’s really nice and it’s really reassuring to feel like you really aren’t alone. There are always people that you can call up to ask a question. There are definitely people, whatever you’re facing, someone else has faced it before and they will help you or they will point you in the direction of someone who can and I think that that is a really, really important thing for women to know as they think about starting a business.
Katie Fogarty (26:49):
That is such spot-on advice and I have found that to be true in my own life. Women have been great about sharing advice, they’ve been great about sharing pricing. I’m looking to price my service offerings, I get actually invited out to the West coast to give remarks on my podcast actually, by a wonderful trade association, shout out to Becky and Alicia for having me, but I called a friend and I said, “This wonderful duo has invited me out, what do you think I should charge?” And I got some feedback from friends who do a lot of public speaking. So, it’s always a good idea to ask people for advice, people are generous with their time, and then in turn you pay it back or pay it forward, you’re helpful to them. And also, particularly when you’re running a small business, you can’t do all the business, there’s a limit to how much you can take on. So, it’s smart to get people in your corner that you can hand clients off to or take clients from when you’re busy.
So, this is the big picture, but what were the tactical steps that you took when you and your partner, your cofounder decided to leave? What was the first thing you did? What’s the second? If somebody is listening to this and thinking, I would love to leave my corporate job and hang out my own shingle and run a consultancy. What would you recommend they do tactically to move the ball forward?
Katie Keating (28:13):
Well, one of the things I did was figure out how I was going to get health insurance. So that’s one thing you definitely have to figure that out because every year I see if I can find better health insurance and I spend three full days researching it and it’s never better than what I have but it’s important, especially at the beginning, to get that taken care of. It’s also, I think, important to make yourself an LLC, and depending on what state you live in, there are different rules about costs and publishing and all kinds of crazy stuff but you don’t need a lawyer, you don’t need to spend a bunch of money on it, you can do it online but you really should. Especially if you have a partner, definitely if you have a partner, you need to make yourself an LLC.
And then I think building your network is also a really important thing to do right away, let people know you’re doing what you’re doing, connect with people, reach out on LinkedIn and start to post about what you’re doing. You don’t have to create a big following but you have to have something out in the world so that when people research, especially when you’re new and people research you and they research your company, that they can figure out kind of what you’re all about, both as a person and as a business person. So, I think that that’s really good advice too. Lots of times, people are doing business with other people, and how you are as a person is important in that how you present yourself.
Katie Fogarty (29:53):
Yeah absolutely, that is great advice. Take time to tend your LinkedIn. That’s the first thing people are gonna see when they google you; if you haven’t invested in your own website yet, that’s your digital footprint. But I would also say invest in a website because that is a very basic calling card these days and it’s never been easier to put up something that looks amazing. I run both my business website and my podcast website off of Squarespace. The templates are easy to use, they’re attractive, there’s other places like Wix. There’s a whole host of ways to put a professional foot forward, which I think is really important for small business owners.
How do you get the word out? You started with a client who came to you and you’ve grown since then. Do you find it’s mostly through customer referrals? Have you done PR? Is it public speaking? Beyond LinkedIn, what would be other strategies or channels that work for you to communicate with future customers?
Katie Keating (30:53):
Well, I’ve done a fair amount of writing for trade magazines, so that’s been helpful to get me in front of people who would be clients and also, in advertising, in our trade, it’s good to be in those because you sort of legitimize yourself among your peers as well.
Katie Fogarty (31:13):
That’s smart.
Katie Keating (31:13):
And that’s helpful as people move around and stuff. So, it’s really my writing I think that’s done a lot to put us out there. I can definitely trace business back to writing and speaking, some public speaking that I’ve done.
Katie Fogarty (31:34):
Right, that’s a great price of advice: find a way to be visible. And that can look different for different people, it could be writing, it could be Instagram, it could be you know like TikTok, although I haven’t gone there yet. But there’s a lot of different ways to be in front of people.
Here’s another great exercise that I actually did with a friend, you just jogged a memory. I went back and looked at just one year of business and I put down every single client I got, every job that I booked, across all my different service offerings including public speaking. And then I went backwards in my grid and I figured out how that business got there. Was it a client referral? Was it from something that I posted on LinkedIn? Because then you have truly a map of what’s actually driving ROI for you. And, you know, maybe you love to be on TikTok but no one’s hired you because of that, they’re hiring you because of something more staid like LinkedIn, that’s where you prioritize your time. So, it can feel like a little bit of homework but I found it to be really useful and I found that most of my business came through referrals. So, I take time to nurture those relationships, you know, that’s where I prioritize. I don’t do advertising, I spend time nurturing my network.
Katie Keating (32:52):
Yeah, I think that’s a really great exercise, I think I’m going to do it myself [both laugh] as soon as we hang up.
Katie Fogarty (32:59):
Good! No, no, no, no. So what about any watch-outs, is there anything that you’ve learned that you would say, “Oh my God, please don’t make that same mistake that I did,” because I have a bunch of them that I’m not gonna bore you with but I would love to learn from you -- is there anything that you would flag as a watch out for somebody who wants to launch a small business?
Katie Keating (33:18):
I think one watch out would be, and I didn’t necessarily make this mistake but I thought about it a lot, is to not do every single thing yourself. Definitely spend the money, don’t be so afraid to spend money to get people to help you do stuff. Like, if you hate math, maybe you don’t need to do the bookkeeping, maybe you can hire somebody to run your QuickBooks, which is not to say that you shouldn’t have them explain it to you—you should definitely know your financial state in your business and know how much is coming in and where it’s going out and all of that—but you don’t have to necessarily make every single invoice, you don’t have to necessarily categorize each expense that comes in. Get somebody else to do it and do the things that you, not only that you’re good at, but that you actually like doing because then you won’t put them off.
Katie Fogarty (34:16):
Such great advice, that’s such smart advice. I also feel like you launched a business for a reason; you enjoy being creative, you have a vision for how people should be talking to the 40 plus market. You didn’t launch your business to run QuickBooks. We get to a certain age where I want to spend my time doing the things that I love and that make a difference for my clients or for the people that I’m listening to. I think that that piece of advice really resonated with me from an age.
So, just quickly, I know you told me you launched the business Fancy when you were 40. Do you feel like you could have done this when you were younger or was it sort of at the right time? Did you have to be in midlife to make this work?
Katie Keating (35:05):
I think that I did and that’s for a couple of reasons. One, I do think that the training that I received in the corporate world and in these big global agencies on big powerful accounts has helped me considerably in the work that I’ve done at Fancy, both as a creative and also jut as somebody who’s helping steer brands. I kind of know what they do at the big places and I think that that’s really helpful information for the clients that we have. So, I don’t think for that reason that I could have done it before I had had 15 years of experience in the corporate world.
But I also don’t think I could have done it because I don’t think I would have had the courage to do it before. I think I would have caved when things got hard and gone out and got another big agency job.
Katie Fogarty (35:57):
And so where is that midlife courage coming from? Is it from experience or is there something else that maps in and makes you feel courageous?
Katie Keating (36:08):
I think it’s simply from having lived life and knowing that stuff will turn out. Or knowing that you have enough past experiences or working hard at something that you want and making it successful. You know that the tough times are gonna pass whether it’s a challenging client or it’s a period where you have no business coming in. It’s easy to freak out at that point and be like, “Forget it, this was a terrible idea, I’m gonna go back to…” whatever...
Katie Fogarty (36:46):
...to being unhappy in my miserable job at my big firm, right.
Katie Keating (36:50):
Right. But I think when you’re older, you’ve seen a lot and done a lot and you just have more confidence in yourself and your place in the world. And I think, I mean, who knows, there’s probably some relationship with estrogen dropping or whatever, [Katie Fogarty laughs] some hormonal thing.
Katie Fogarty (37:13):
I love it, menopause is our superpower. I love this.
So, we are near the end of our time together but I wanna do a quick speed round with you if you’ll participate because it’s so hard, I could talk all day to my guests, I love having these conversations, but we have a limited time and I want to just move through a couple of quick questions if you’re game.
Katie Keating (37:37):
Yeah.
Katie Fogarty (37:37):
Okay, let’s do it. So, a one-word answer to complete this sentence: launching a business is…
Katie Keating (37:44):
Exciting.
Katie Fogarty (37:45):
Nice. My superpower at work is… And you can’t use menopause because we already said that [both laugh]
Katie Keating (37:53):
Focus.
Katie Fogarty (37:53):
Focus, okay. My superpower at home…
Katie Keating (37:57):
If you put hyphens in, it’s all one word, letting-it-go.
Katie Fogarty (38:01):
Ooo, I like that, I’ve gotten much better at that too. The app or hack that every small business owner needs to know…
Katie Keating (38:11):
App or hack…
Katie Fogarty (38:13):
You kind of touched on it, outsourcing a little bit. Is there anything else though? Is there something that like keeps you on track every day?
Katie Keating (38:21):
I think it’s being able to laugh at stuff.
Katie Fogarty (38:25):
A sense of humor, all right, I love it, that makes sense. On weekends you will find me…
Katie Keating (38:32):
On weekends you’ll find me either in Prospect Park or pleading with my kids to do their homework.
Katie Fogarty (38:41)
[laughs] Oh my gosh it’s true right. if I weren’t running Fancy I would be a…
Katie Keating (38:49):
Quilt-maker.
Katie Fogarty (38:50):
Ooo, I love that. Interesting. Very interesting, I haven’t heard that one before, very cool. Katie this has been a lot of fun. I love hanging out with fellow Katies. I love having out with fellow entrepreneurs. And I really enjoyed hearing more about your business and your insights into you know, marketing to women, marketing to our peer group, it’s been fascinating. Before we say goodbye, where can our listeners find out more about you and Fancy and your services and your writing?
Katie Keating (39:20):
Well, I’m very google-able at Katie Keating. You can find me on LinkedIn for sure, Katie Keating. And Fancy’s website is fancynyc.com. And you can find a lot of the writing and things that I’ve done on that website.
Katie Fogarty (39:38):
Terrific, I’ll put those all in the show notes. Thank you, Katie.
Katie Keating (39:40):
Great.
Katie Fogarty (39:41):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when I talk with Kendra Kolb Butler, the founder of Alpyn Beauty, who ditched a 20-year career with big beauty brands in New York City to move to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and launch her own beauty line built around wild, mountain botanicals.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties.