Own Your Age. For Women Who Refuse to Let Age Define Them with Grace Creative
Show Snapshot:
Ready to own your age? Out loud? Listen in as two award-winning ad creatives talk about launching their #AgeisNOTjustaNumber video campaign -- an "Age Anthem" tackling ageism head-on.
If you believe that “age doesn’t define you, that substance is the new sexy, and in kicking ass instead of sitting on it,” you need to meet Susan Lee Colby and Kathy Sjogren. After “aging out” of the youth-obsessed ad industry, the duo co-founded Grace Creative, an agency specializing in marketing to women over 50.
Because when your age and experience is seen as a strike against you, you pull up stakes, take all that talent and goodness with you, and build your own damn thing.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. Why Susan and Kathy launched a creative agency focusing on the 50+ female market.
2. The myths and realities of ageism in the ad industry.
3. What makes middle-aged women the most empowered consumers.
4. An unexpectedly awesome benefit of aging.
5. How some brands miss the mark in portraying older women.
6. Why giving yourself permission to “go for it” opens doors.
7. The confidence and resilience that comes with age.
8. What’s the “Age is Not Just a Number” campaign and how can I join in?
9. Why aging lessens the fear of failure and the impossible quest for perfection.
10. The name Katie almost decided to call the podcast instead of “A Certain Age.”
11. The power of declaring your age boldly.
Join the #AgeisNotJustaNumber movement and make your own video
Quotable:
We're proud of our age and know that our age stands for something. It's not something to be embarrassed about or to hide. - Susan Colby
When you get to this age, you're just going to go for it. You're just going to try everything and you're not going to let people tell you ‘no.’ - Kathy Sjogren
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (00:04):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50, who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
Today, I am joined by two award-winning ad creatives, Susan Lee Colby and Kathy Sjogren, who founded a creative agency out of LA. With a somewhat unusual mission in our youth-obsessed world, and in a youth-obsessed city, Susan and Kathy launched Grace Creative LA with a goal of activating the power of women over 50 and to connect with the brands that take this demographic seriously. I could not be more delighted to welcome two women who in their own words, "Don't believe age defines you. That substance is the new sexy, and we're kicking ass instead of sitting on it." Welcome, Susan and Kathy.
Kathy Sjogren (00:49):
Hey, how are you?
Susan Colby (00:50):
Hi Katie.
Katie (00:50):
I'm so delighted to have you both. And this is a first for the show. We have not yet had on two guests at a time. So, to make this a little bit easier for the audience, why don't each one of you say your name? So the listeners can start to distinguish between the two voices. Susan, why don't we have you go first?
Susan (01:09):
Okay. Hi, this is Susan Colby.
Kathy (01:13):
And this is Kathy Sjogren and we're super happy to be with you guys today.
Katie (01:17):
Terrific. Well, thank you so much for finding the time, especially with the time difference. Susan, I would love to start by asking you what made you and Kathy launch a creative agency that focuses on an older female market and the brands that want to reach them?
Susan (01:34):
Well, I don't know how intentional it was at first, but Kathy and I had had long careers in advertising. And at a certain point we had aged out, which at that point was probably in our late thirties. But we were still doing freelance work and actually, Kathy was working for Disney. But you just get to a certain point when you have all this expertise and the skills, but you haven't necessarily been able to apply them to something that you really feel passionate about. And so, we had gotten to that point where we wanted to take and use our skills for good and really serve the market. That meant something to us. And obviously, that was women over 50 because nobody, I mean most brands, were interested in talking to this demographic.
Katie (02:32):
So, do people really age out of advertising at 30? Because I know that Mark Read — is it Red or Read? — at ad giant, WPP came under fire recently about older workers. He said most of my staff is under 30 and that fortunately not a lot of people from the eighties are on staff. And, you know, as a proud child of the Eighties, I was like, "What the what! What is he talking about?" Is this a reality?
Kathy (03:00):
Yeah, it's really, it is true. And that was our experience in advertising. You know, I started in it when I was like around 23, and I've had a really successful — both Susan and I had both successful careers — but when you start getting into your mid-thirties or early-forties, if you aren't the creative director, the owner, or the person who is the boss, you basically kind of start to get aged out, just because you've probably got a higher salary. And also, they just think that youth has all the great ideas. You kind of start being pushed out and they start hiring young, younger, creative people. And especially when I was working at Disney, it's really very, very youth-obsessed. And you really start feeling like you don't even say your age after you're 40, if you're over 40, you don't say your age anymore. So, it's really true.
Katie (03:58):
It's so interesting. I mean, Disney's obviously focused on a youth market but it's a very large, established company. You think that they would welcome grownups. Is it still tough even in the creative space, even in a large corporation?
Kathy (04:14):
Yes, that was our, my experience. It was very much very, I understand it's just like, you know, a lot of younger people want to come in there and they just want to go for it and do creative things. But so do older people and they have a lot of great ideas, but they just get pushed aside. Seriously. It's really what happens.
Susan (04:37):
So, I think also the thing that those companies are not considering is that even in a company like Disney, that targets a younger demographic — who is the one who's paying for the tickets? And the merchandise? And everything else? It's definitely women over 50, that would be grandparents and parents. So, that was the thing that we found was getting overlooked. And by the way, Mark Read at WPP is 52. I believe.
Katie (05:08):
Right.
Susan (05:08):
So, he is of the 80's himself…
Kathy (05:10):
But he is a guy. And so, that's why he still has a job there.
Katie (05:16):
It's true. There's ageism in so many industries. And definitely the deck is stacked against older women. Which is so ironic because older women have such incredible spending power and are very engaged consumers. They are the ones that are making most of the buying decisions in the house. They're the ones that are saying yes to the car or doing the insurance, doing so much of the shopping. So, I find it mind-boggling that this consumer is ignored. What is your reaction to that? Is that your feeling?
Susan (05:49):
Well, I think that was our whole impetus for starting the agency was we looked at the data and saw how much money this group controlled. And they make 87% of the buying decisions. And also, you know, when you turn 50, for women turning 50, it’s kind of this convergence of all the circumstances coming together from the kids moving out of the house; you have more free time in a lot of cases, your parents are passing on and leaving money to you and even your spouse. So, women are kind of at that sweet spot, so to speak, of being completely empowered as consumers.
Kathy (06:38):
And also if they are at a certain age, they're either being laid off or looking for what the next big thing is for themselves. They're at a stage where they're trying to figure out what they want to do with the next stage of their lives.
Katie (06:50):
Right. They're receptive. I love how you use the word empowered as a consumer because that really aligns with how I see myself and how I see my friends. And it's interesting because the post-50, you know, the 50 to maybe 80, a life stage where you're making these buying decisions is much longer than those for maybe when you're planning for a wedding or where you're having a very young baby. There's so much marketing and advertising done to people during those inflection points in their life. Yet, they're sort of ignoring this long phase that happens later on in life. And it seems that brands are really missing the mark here. I want to ask if either one of you can answer this, Susan, Kathy, your website says that Grace Creative offers work powered by age experience, and courage and I totally get age and experience but talk to me about why you included the word courage there.
Kathy (07:49):
Yeah.
Katie (07:49):
So, Kathy, you go. That's Kathy's voice. I recognize it.
Kathy (07:53):
Go ahead, Susan. You’re…
Susan (07:56):
Okay. So, now she passed it to me. Well, I think what we mean by that is that you know, you get to a certain point where you're not afraid to take chances. You're not afraid to say what you think, you're not afraid to tell the truth, and you're not afraid to be who you are. To be authentic. So, that's what we hope to convey in our marketing and our advertising — is just to reflect that voice in those truths.
Because I think what's also been the problem with when brands do try to target this audience. It's just been such a myth in terms of really reflecting what, you know, life over 50 is like. And often it's a very negative view, when in fact, it's a super positive period of life; it can be enormously creative and inspiring. And Kathy and I were just telling you about the commercial that we saw for Boost, which is like a nutritional supplement. But the woman said something like, "Age is just the number and mine is unlisted." And you're just laughing about that. And just are like, "Whoa, did you miss the mark there!" Because you know, the whole point is that we're proud of our age and that our age stands for something. It's not something to be embarrassed or to hide.
Kathy (09:36):
Absolutely. It's the experience that comes with age. And at this age...because when it's society and the business that you're in, makes you feel embarrassed to even say it, it’s just a shame, but actually, when you get to this age, you're just going to go for it and you're just going to try everything and you're not going to let people tell you, “No, you can't do that.”
We had an amazing experience with one of our clients Golden Door with Annie Liebowitz. And we were doing a campaign for our client Golden Door. And we were looking for photographers. We thought Annie would be amazing to do this, but this was a small client. And we thought, “Well, let's just go for it. Let's see what happens. Let's see if she'd be interested.” And we contacted her and we pitched the whole concept and she was very, very receptive. And we ended up shooting with Annie Liebowitz. So, we had a career-high when we were in our fifties and that's something that we would never have been experienced probably when we were younger thinking, "Oh my God. No way Annie would ever do this." But we just think at this age, you're just more like, "You know what? Let's try it. Let's go for it. What do we have to lose?"
Katie (10:46):
And you know what? You wind up working with an icon, which is absolutely amazing.
Kathy (10:49):
Exactly. Which was a career-high. It was amazing. And I, something I never thought we were going to be able to do with this, you know, at this stage of our career, but it was really quite spectacular.
Katie (11:00):
Some of what- everything that you just said, "I'm like a hundred percent, a hundred percent." Like I'm like waving my hands around. I'm so excited over here. Because I completely feel unstoppable at this age. And I feel like when I was younger, I was getting in my own way. Maybe like you said, "Why would Annie Leibowitz want to work with us?" Well, why not? Let’s go! And we get to that point where we feel more confident. Or if we go, you know, if we say let's go and we try it and it doesn't work, we’re okay. You know we can pick ourselves up and keep moving because we have experience. We know that there'll be "nos." We know there'll be "yeses" and we're good.
Kathy (11:39):
We're big girls.
Katie (11:41):
Yes, exactly. Big girls. Totally. So, beyond your work for brands like Golden Goor and some of your other clients, you as an agency have really taken on the mantle and been very vocal and visible about squarely taking aim at these dated and tired notions that your age defines you. That we're all too embarrassed to admit to being a certain age. I'd love to have you tell the audience a little bit more about two of your projects. One is Girls Gone 50, and the other is the “Age is Not just a Number” campaign. In a minute, we're going to listen to a short video clip of that campaign, but I would love for you to tell our audiences about what these two projects are. Susan, why don't you start?
Susan (12:20):
Okay. We have a blog and it's called Girls Gone 50. And I think we came up with that name based on the notion that one day you're a girl or in your head, you're a girl. And one day you look in the mirror and you go, "Oh, I'm a girl gone 50!" We just thought that was kind of funny. But the idea was that it's a blog for our agency, Grace Creative, but what we wanted to do differently with that. It was not to have it be about us but to have it be about the demographic and what women are really thinking about and interested in. And have it be in their voice.
So, we started off by getting a lot of our friends to write blog posts about different issues and things that they were doing. One of our friends had just become an empty nest, or just become an empty nester, and downsized and moved to a houseboat in Sausalito. We cover a lot of topics, but what we really wanted that to accomplish was to build a community. But also for brands to look at that and really see who we are that we're not these older ladies who sit around gardening. We really wanted to help change the narrative from within.
And then our latest campaign "Age is Not Just a Number," started from that same basis is that we really wanted to tackle ages and head-on and, you know, starting with women saying their age right to camera. And I'll let Kathy talk more about how we got into the production of the video.
Kathy (14:18):
Yes. So, it was COVID. We had our agency, this is our fifth year, going into our fifth year, and we had a beautiful website. And then we were planning on redoing our website and we were just trying to think of some creative ways of what we could do for the homepage. And, you know, our whole thing is owning your age and we want brands that own this age also.
So, we were just thinking creatively what we could do to make something exciting for the website. And we just started talking and things just kind of started snowballing the ideas. And we came up with this idea of getting a bunch of our friends and co-workers from the past and people that we know, that would just film themselves on their iPhones at home with COVID hair. And then we were editing, we edited them all together and it was really quite astounding. We got over 30 women, but we ended up using about 30 women in the video. And they all were so honest and came back with so many great comments about what this age meant to them. And it turned out fantastic.
Katie (15:32):
It is phenomenal. We're going to hit play in a minute so our listeners can hear a 60-second version of the campaign.
Age is Not Just a Number Audio Clip (15:41):
I'm 54. I'm 48. 57. 62. I've been a world traveler. A doctor. Nominated for an Emmy. FedEx driver. Black belt. I've lived through IRA bombings. Single motherhood. Layoffs. Guerrilla warfare. Heart and a kidney transplant. And now a pandemic. I've raised four children. My expectations. Twins. Big sister, big dog. I've lost pretenses. My gallbladder. Parents. My husband. My fear of failure. I have gained courage. 20 pounds. Seven grey hairs. A sex life. Age is not just a number. Not just a number...the number. It's what makes me who I am. The smartest person in the room. Phenomenal. Confident. Sexy. Soulful. Unapologetic. A force. A force. A force. A force.
Katie (16:40):
That was phenomenal. I absolutely love that campaign. Ringing phones and all. It's a great way to end that, it was like the alarms going off. We are forces, ring, ring! Even your phone supports you.
Kathy (16:55):
My favorite. My favorite line from that video is "the smartest person in the room." It's just kind of like…because you really do feel so many times you get in these rooms, and I have young children, I mean millennials. And so, I have nothing against millennials. But I mean, you get into rooms sometimes. And in meetings and people are talking and talking, and you're just going, "This doesn't make any sense. What are we doing it?" And you just literally do feel like the smartest person in the room, but you just can't say it. And I thought when that woman came out and said that, I was just like, “Wow."
Katie (17:32):
It's so ballsy. She just stepped right into it. She's like, "This is who I am." You know, which I love. I also love when you talk about when the women talked about what they lost, you know, it was funny. It was like 20 pounds. I lost my gallbladder. I lost my fear of failure. And I totally relate to that. I feel like a lot of women sometimes want to be perfect. And they're not willing to put things out there. Try new things because they have this sort of perfection complex. And I feel like as I've gotten older, I've completely moved away from that. Life is imperfect. It's you can try, try and try again. Failure is not the end of the line. You know, it's no today, it could be yes tomorrow. And that kind of confidence really only comes by living years and having miles under your belt. What has the response to the campaign been? Is there a particular favorite submission that you've had or something that surprised you?
Susan (18:32):
We've been surprised at what a great — I mean, we aren't really surprised — but we've been surprised that it's really starting to catch on. And people are making their own videos. I think one of the ones that has meant the most to me is, I think it was a comment on Twitter where a woman said that she finally feels seen. And I think that you know, just says it all, a hundred percent. So, when we did this video, it wasn't something that we thought was going to turn into a movement or a campaign or anything like that, but it actually has. And now we're putting it out there for people and companies. Executive women want to join and pledge to, you know, hire more women over 50 and to keep it going. So, it turned into something that we had not even planned on it turning into. So, it's really wonderful.
Katie (19:30):
So exciting. So what is your number? What age are you? Both?
Kathy (19:35):
I am 60.
Katie (19:37):
How about you Susan?
Susan (19:40):
I'm the old Beatles song. Don't believe it. I'm 64.
Katie (19:44):
Okay. I love it. I'm 51. So, we’re all firmly into this Girls Gone 50 club. It's funny because I call 50 a club too, and I always say it's a very underrated club, but it's a great one. It's a great one once you get in there. So, you started your journey in advertising a long time ago. When you launched your careers, what did you think about 50? And what has changed in your viewpoint bout 50 today?
Kathy (20:14):
When I launched my career, I was in my early twenties and I remember my first boss. He came into the room one day and he said, "Oh, I'm turning 45." And I went, "Oh my God, that man is so old." And I just went, I'm never going to be 45. And now I just look back and go, "What an immature person that I was."
Susan (20:38):
I remember when I was working at a pretty famous agency here. And I remember at the time that I was one of the oldest creatives on staff and I felt so old, and I was 25.
Katie (20:53):
So, that's so amazing. That is a really young industry. Like 25 is like “babyville”. So, what happens to all the creatives who, you know, who turn 26? Who turn 27? Do people cycle in and out of the ad industry? Do they go do other things? You know, you obviously started your own agency, but if the end of the line is 30, what happens to retiring ad creatives? Where do they go?
Kathy (21:21):
Well, freelancing or start their own agencies. Or find other kind of creative outlets.
Susan (21:29):
I think it's also harder for women. When you stop talking about your age and you stop making references maybe to when you graduated from college. And you know, now I've heard of women doing Botox who are way too young to be doing Botox. There are still things like that go on.
Katie (21:51):
And so how on earth could women, the rest of us, who are looking at advertising, who are seeing the commercials, who are seeing all the campaigns, how can we be seen? What brands are doing it well? What brands do you think are really talking to women today? The way they should be addressed?
Kathy (22:11):
Well, I know Knix is doing a good job.
Katie (22:16):
What's the company? Could you repeat that?
Susan (22:18):
Knix, sorry. Yes. Yeah. Knix is doing a good job. And Dove, I think in general kind of set the bar. you know, it wasn't necessarily about age, but it was about being authentic. So, I think they really kicked that off and there's a lot of smaller mostly direct-to-consumer brands now that I'm sure you're familiar with, a lot of them on Instagram who is doing a good job of it. And they're actually brands that are targeted to women over 50. And I know some of the cosmetic companies like Cover Girl did that spot with May Musk, but again, we'd like to see it be not an outlier. And we'd like to see it just be part of the conversation rather than the one lady with gray hair who shows up in every part of the crowd. But I think there are definitely different brands now that are targeting women, especially around menopause, and some better than others. But I think a lot of those are led by women. And when they're led by women over 50 the marketing tends to be better. It makes sense.
Katie (23:43):
It makes sense that brands like Rosebud Women or a Bonafide or companies that are selling menopause-related products or intimacy wellness products for women over a certain age would be advertising well. And that there are even brands that are creating products that just serve this older market because I don't remember that when I was younger and I see that stuff now. What are some of the exciting projects that you're working on with Grace Creative right now for this market?
Kathy (24:19):
Well, we've been working with…it’s not really a startup. It's within P&G, with Proctor & Gamble. It's a company, a group called SeeMe Beauty, and they're doing skincare for menopausal skin. And they're new and they're just trying to get it, get going on it. And we've been working with them and are super excited. We had a couple of projects with them and then COVID hits. So, everything kind of came pretty much to a standstill. Things are starting to, we can see the light at the end of the tunnel now, hopefully with some of the projects that were kind of put on hold. There are a few things, well not a few, there are a lot more companies out there now focusing on women of this age than there ever was before. I mean, when we started five years ago, I think we were just like looking for four things and now they're there's a lot more out there than there was.
Susan (25:13):
Yeah. And I think actually, because of the "Age is Not Just a Number Campaign," we'd had a lot of outreach from different brands that we're talking to right now that we're still negotiating with, but a lot has come out of that. And we hope to be able to do more work having taken a stand on this.
Katie (25:36):
And do you find when you're looking at, I'm not sure when you're creating your own campaigns, if you're doing all, custom imagery and things of that nature, but do you find if you're using, you know, like stock images from Getty or iStock or any of those houses? That there are enough representative models of this age? Sometimes I, for my own work, I sometimes have to source pictures and sometimes they feel super, super cliched.
Kathy (26:06):
No, there's not enough stock photography. I mean, there are some companies that are starting to realize that and are amping up that age and kind of stock imagery, but there are, there are very, very few wonderful images that don't look totally cliched. Like you said, like the gray-haired man and women walking their bikes on the beach or something like that, there's just not that much of an inventory. So, whenever we have an opportunity to do a project, we're usually having to do new photography because there's just, there's none that really exists out there.
Katie (26:44):
And when you create your campaigns, I know you are both over 50, what's your, you know, there's been a big push. You see this in Hollywood where certain actresses are only going to work on shows if there's a female director or if 50% of the staff and the camera people are female too. Have you brought this, you know, women over 50-ethos into the people that are working on the campaigns that you're creating?
Susan (27:13):
I don't, well, I was going to say, I don't think that we're in that position yet, but we would love to be in that position. At this point, we're happy when somebody actually wants to do good work around this demographic.
Kathy (27:27):
Yeah. I mean, we've worked with women photographers. We work with men photographers, we don't judge by sex or gender, but, you know, it's always really quite wonderful and there's a lot more of a story to share on social if it's all women-based. And so I mean, it's great when it does work out that way.
Katie (27:51):
Very cool. And so, tell us what's next for Grace Creative and your campaign. We're going to talk about how to get the word out and I'm going to be sharing it on my Instagram, but what would you like our listeners to know about this campaign and the work that you're doing around it?
Susan (28:06):
Well, Katie, we'd like you to do your own video.
Katie (28:08):
Oooh.
Kathy (28:15):
On the spot.
Katie (28:15):
Yes, yes. I'm excited. That would be fun. Maybe Dave will help me. Dave is the producer of this podcast. Or I can do it myself. And he's over 50. He just chimed in....so
Kathy (28:29):
Okay. Dave maybe your wife would want to do one?
Katie (28:35):
I would love to participate. I think the video that you made is amazing. I am all about owning your age and saying it out loud there. We should be able to do that. And it's a big premise of the show. You know, it's just, I almost called this— this show is called A Certain Age as you know. But I almost called it Age Out Loud. Because I really believe that we should be able to do that. So I'm all in for what your campaign and what you're doing. So, how can our listeners who want to, create their own videos and get involved? How can they find you? Where should they look for you on social media and the web?
Susan (29:12):
Okay, well, on Instagram you can go to @girlsgone50. It's the handle. But if you go to our website gracecreativela.com and you look at the top bar, it says, "#AgeisNOTjustaNumber, and if you click on that, it has full directions for how to download and share the video on your social. And then also prompts for how you can make your own video and hashtag it with that same hashtag.
Kathy (29:40):
If someone doesn't feel comfortable doing a video, we're also looking for empowered photos. If they just want to take an empowered photograph of themselves and then answer the prompts. That's also something we would love too. So, they can do it both ways.
Katie (29:56):
Wonderful. Thank you so much. And I'm hoping that all of our listeners will contribute because you have to see this in action. You have to be vocal about your age. You have to find your tribe. And I think it's so empowering when you see the women in the video that you've created. You see the people on your social media sharing what they're up to. It gives you a little air under your own wings. It injects like a little energy, mojo into your life. So, I am gonna encourage all of our listeners to do that. I'm going to create my own video and I'm going to send it to you. And I'll also post it on my own social media…
Susan (30:33):
Yay.
Katie (30:34):
Yay. Thank you so much for joining me today and talking through your work, your campaign "Age is Not Just a Number" and the work of Grace Creative LA. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Susan (30:44):
Thank you.
Kathy (30:45):
Thank you.
Katie (30:46):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. Thanks for listening. Please help us grow by heading to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you go to listen to podcasts, to subscribe, rate, and leave a review and visit us at acertainagepod.com for show notes and bonus content. Special thanks to Michael Mancini Productions who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time. And until then: age boldly, beauties.