Parenting (and Midlife) is a Crazy Salad. Writer Melissa Fenton Helps Us Make Sense of the Cray, Cray
Show Snapshot:
Why didn’t anyone tell us that parenting, and midlife was going to be hard? Okay, maybe they told us. But we weren’t listening, because we were young and fun, and obviously never going to be 50. Hooray for hilarious truth-tellers like writer Melissa Fenton who mines both the magic and mundane of parenting and midlife for outlets like Grown & Flown, Scary Mommy, and The AARP’s The Girlfriend. In today’s show, we talk surviving teens and midlife and learn how Melissa built a successful freelance writing career.
In This Episode We Cover:
How Melissa’s early blogging turned into a freelance writing career.
The blog post that went “viral” and launched paid gigs.
How Melissa grew a Facebook following of 90,000 followers.
Moms talk honestly about the challenges of parenting babies and toddlers. Why don’t we talk frankly about the challenges of raising teens?
Navigating social media and the illusion of perfection.
We have a teen mental health crisis. Let’s talk about it.
Surprise! People in midlife still have sex. (And other topics that get most clicks).
Tips for launching a freelance writing career.
Books recommendations to navigate teendom, the college years and an emptying-nest.
Like food? Like books? Like memoirs? Meet the “foodoir.”
Quotable:
When we have little kids, we talk about how difficult it is, and then we all have teenagers, and everybody stops talking about how difficult it is. I was just really honest about the difficulties of raising a modern teenager.
When I started, I had no concept of being paid to write. I had to have somebody tell me, ‘Words have worth. The same way somebody would sell something they made; your product is your writing.
More Resources:
The Post that Went Viral and Launched Melissa’s Freelance Career
10 Ways to Give Your Kids an Honest-to-Goodness 1970s Summer
Melissa’s Other Writing
Books Melissa Recommends
Parenting
Grown and Flown: How to Support Your Teen, Stay Close as a Family, and Raise Independent Adults
From Mom to Me Again: How I Survived My First Empty-Nest Year and Reinvented the Rest of My Life
Food Reads aka Foodoirs
Follow Melissa
Melissa’s website
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (00:04):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50, who unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
Any honest parent will tell you parenting is a lot like whipping up a crazy salad on steroids. It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Some highs, some lows, sleepless nights, brimming laundry baskets, empty fridges, milestones met, disappointments survived, screaming fights, gut-busting laughter, and a dollop of Elmer's Glue and glitter. Or, if you have a teen boy, a side of dirty sneakers.
I'm joined today by freelance writer Melissa Fenton, who mines both the magic and mundane of parenting for the award-winning parenting website, Grown & Flown, and her personal blog, 4BoysMother.com. When I came across Melissa's Facebook page, I fell down a rabbit-hole; cackling and nodding in equal parts. She nails parenting. And after I cyber-stalked her across the Internet, as one does, I learned that she is also a staff writer for the AARP, where she brings her sharp wit and fun voice-y writing to cover midlife and aging. Today we'll talk surviving teens and midlife and learn how Melissa, with her day job as a college librarian, built her successful writing side-hustle. Welcome, Melissa.
Melissa Fenton (01:22):
Thanks for having me. And that was such a great intro.
Katie (01:25):
Yay. Well, you know, you're a wordsmith, so there was a lot of pressure.
Melissa (01:30):
No, that was really, really good. Thank you. I'm very impressed. Thank you.
Katie (01:33):
Well, I'm delighted that you're here. Let's just dive right in. You have four boys as the name of your blog says, but you also have a career as a college librarian. When and how did you first get into blogging?
Melissa (01:44):
I first got into blogging just simply writing on Facebook, you know, the ins and outs of raising four boys. The content pretty much wrote itself. And then I would just kind of tell anecdotal stories about what my life was like. One piece I wrote, seemed to go what they called, “viral.” And I was approached, it was probably seven or eight years ago. It was how to give your kids a 1970's summer. And it was all about the pressures of having this perfect summer. And why can't we just be moms like our seventies moms and let our kids run around until the street lights come on. And it seemed to hit a nerve.
I was approached by some parenting websites, you know, "Could you send us some of your writing?" And I kinda just got started that way and sent them pieces little by little. And never in my wildest dreams did I think someone would pay me to write. My writing has evolved from writing about little kids to now writing about issues in midlife and empty nesting and adolescents. So, it's been a really fun, little journey, nothing I ever expected.
Katie (02:53):
Yeah. It's so fun to follow, the twists and turns and see where life takes us because it's taken you in some interesting places.Your Facebook following is huge. I can see why. Because as I said, I fell down that Facebook rabbit hole. But you have 90,000 people following you on Facebook. This is not like Kardashian-level social media, but it's pretty amazing about a mom who is blogging about her kids. How did...what made you stand out in this crowded field? And how did you grow your audience? Was it deliberate? Was it just sort of organic and natural? Walk us through it.
Melissa (03:27):
I think it was a little bit of both. I think when I was writing and I was on staff at a website called Scary Mommy for many years, which was one of the leading parenting websites. I don't know if you'd really call it a blog; a leading parenting website. And at that time, everyone was still writing about that sweet spot of childhood. Kids ages between 5 and 10,11, and my kids were older at that time. And I was kind of dabbling in that, writing about adolescents and is anybody having a difficult time raising teens like I am? And how come nobody told me it would be this hard? And people were still writing about, "Oh my two year old won't take a nap.” So, there was this kind of empty space in the Internet and need for mothers writing about adolescents or writing about when your kids are leaving for college. And I just happened to fall into that.
At the same time Grown & Flown was a website that was starting with the goal of reaching that exact audience. They reached out to me cause I had written some pieces about, about teenage years on website, like, Your Teen for Parents, I had written for. And they reached out to me and said, “Listen, we're starting this website and we want voices of parents, of teens and parents of kids to college-aged-kids.” So, I just kind of fell into that. I think I was really honest about how hard raising teens are. It seems when we have little kids, we talk about how difficult it is, and then we all have teenagers and everybody stops talking about how difficult it is. So, I think just being really honest about the difficulties of it and what it looks like raising a modern teenager with social media and all of that mess, it just kind of helped me get an audience pretty quickly.
Katie (05:17):
You said, "How come nobody told me that this was so hard?" And I feel like that should be like on a bumper sticker. Because that really feels like so much of parenting. And you're right, when your kids are young, everyone's very, very vocal. Like, "How do I get them to sleep through the night? And what's your potty training tricks?" And it's like little people problems.
But when you're navigating teenagers, it's really hard. And I have a daughter who's now 20, and we are mostly on the other side of those really difficult teen girl years. And I remember another mom in town who had a daughter Grace's age. And so, she had two older kids as well. And she told me at one point how mean, and deeply unkind, her teen daughter was being to her, who was in high school, and I can remember being a little bit aghast, being like, "Well, that wouldn't have happened to me,” you know? And it's like, "Oh really? Just you wait." There's going to be weeping and screaming and rending of garments. And it's going to be by you, not your daughter.
It was literally, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done, just to be the kind of mom and person I wanted to be. And parent a teen and navigate that dynamic. It was really, really challenging. And I really feel like Grown & Flown has stepped into that breach and offers content for people who are struggling with that. What are some of the pieces that you've written for them that have really resonated with an audience?
Melissa (06:47):
There was a piece I did, might have been one or two, maybe two years ago. And it was parents, we're killing our teenagers. And we're to blame in killing them as in, there's so much pressure on these kids, college admissions have just jumped the shark. It's insane what we expect of these children, and they are children. I mean, it's insane, it’s insane what we expect these children to accomplish through high school. You know…
Katie (07:19):
We could never do it. We could....
Melissa (07:21):
Oh, never! Never do it. I could not get into the local community college.
Katie (07:29):
Yeah.
Melissa (07:30):
And we're seeing a huge spike in suicides. We're seeing a huge spike in mental illness complaints in high school. We're seeing mental illness facilities on college campuses that simply can't keep up. Because we have pressured these kids into, you know, the 8.5 GPA. I mean how does that even exist? Because that never existed when we were in high school, but it does now. And that piece seemed to just hit a nerve with, "We've got to slow down." And it takes parents. It takes guidance counselors. It takes educators. It takes a revamping in higher ed admissions, which I think the pandemic is going to really have almost a good effect on that, because we've had to slow down these high schoolers. And college admissions is going to have to reflect that. We all have to work to kind of tackle this, this crisis we have with adolescent mental health right now. So, that piece did phenomenally well.
As well as pieces about just how difficult it is raising a teen, and how, like I said, “Nobody prepared me for this.” I didn't know that every day, the child walking down the stairs was going to be somebody I wouldn't recognize. I mean, it's kind of a joke. You never know who you're going to get in the morning with a teenager.
Katie (08:50):
Or at one in the morning. Or at one in the morning when they're coming home from parties.
Melissa (08:57):
And navigating social media with them as well. I mean, I've limited my children's access for a long time, but then they became, you know, 16, 17, 18-year-olds, then we can't limit that. They're almost, you know, have to have the responsibility and how to navigate that. So, all these kind of tough issues seem to resonate with the Grown & Flown audience. And then of course there's some funny, kind of like the reality of a teen boy that also do do pretty good as well...
Katie (09:31):
The refrigerator that empties itself...
Melissa (09:34):
That empties itself. The missing boxes of tissues and good lotion. We'll leave that for your imagination... I did actually write a piece on how to talk to your teen son about that.
Katie (09:52):
I love that I'm looking that one up. It sounds like you're so honest and open with your kids. But you did indicate that you had shifted from writing about them when they were younger to kind of not sharing as much. So, how do you navigate that as somebody who really did share stuff about your kids when they were young, what are your guardrails? What are your boundaries?
Melissa (10:14):
When they got to the teen years, I didn't use names anymore. I didn't use photographs anymore. And I tried to generalize the pieces as much as possible, like in general, this is what I'm experiencing with my teen. Just to make it more general and then just to tackle basic issues, we're all facing. And try to do it in a way where I didn't have to use too many personal stories, but I could still get the point across. And a lot of that too comes from my followers on my page. I mean, they provide a lot of content as well. You know, "This is what I'm going through. Can you write about this?"
Katie (10:55):
You really have a community, I've noticed that there's a lot of engagement on your profile. There's a lot of back and forth. There's a lot of great, funny, hilarious memes. You've got such a fabulous content mix.
You know, I want to ask you, I came across this phrase just this past week called "digital campfires." And I was like, what's that? It grabbed my, like, my eye because I thought it was interesting. And when I read about it, it's this idea of building and kind of stoking communities online. Did you anticipate this? Did you anticipate your Facebook page becoming this 90,000 person community?
Melissa (11:33):
I never did. And they are a great community. And I tell you what, I get so many personal messages too. And they all seem to say a similar kind of sentiment. And that is, "Thank you for saying what I'm afraid to say. Thank you for being a voice of reason. Thank you for telling it like it is. Thank you for being honest." Especially when I talk about teen mental health issues, because there is still a stigma, and I can't believe we still have this in this country. There's still mental health shame. And especially among parents of teenagers, because you may say your neighbor down the street and their daughter is a valedictorian, and the captain of the cheer squad and just got into three Ivies and is just excelling. And you may have a teenager who's just struggling mentally with adolescence which is very normal. We all did. But we're almost afraid to share that still.
Katie (12:30):
And social media makes it so much harder. I mean, it makes it harder for the kids. But for the parents too, because we all know that social media is just one gigantic highlight reel. Yet we fall victim to it. I mean, I find myself having to put my phone down sometimes and just say, “Get off of Instagram because it's making you feel bad about yourself.” And I'm 51. I can't imagine what it's like, if you were a 14 or 15, 16 year old kid. It's really, really hard.
Melissa (12:57):
I know that is so true. And they do see that and feel it. I'm sure, I don't think that the male adolescents feel it as much as the females, just, I think my boys seem to be able to look at things like that in social media and shake it off more than I would think the pressures of women feel. And especially with body image and an adolescent. And like you said, I'm of a “certain age” and sometimes I've got to turn it off, and I feel like, "Oh my God. How is that person achieving that?" And I can't even do that.
Katie (13:33):
Right! Getting the laundry done is the achievement.
Melissa (13:35):
Right? And we feel the same way about our teenagers. That family down the street, their teenager is perfect, and mine is not. But I tell you what. The messages I get are all, we're all going through the same type of teen angst and they're very supportive of me for telling it like it is. So, you know, I can help people out.
Katie (13:59):
It makes people feel less alone to hear that what other people are struggling with or to recognize that life is thoroughly imperfect. And having this social media front, doesn't do anyone any good.
So, I'm curious. You made the leap from writing about your kids on your personal blog, although you still do it a little bit. You talk about teen content on your blog and on Grown & Flown, but now you're writing also for the AARP. And you mentioned a minute ago that you're of a certain age, but I know you are my first guest on the show. Who's not yet 50. Can you tell our listeners how old you are?
Melissa (14:36):
So, I am 48 and I kind of fell into writing for the AARP. They launched the new publication called The Girlfriend a couple of years ago. And they were trying to reach a specific demo of women kind of between 40 and 55-ish.
Katie (14:52):
Yes.
Melissa (14:52):
And again, they were filling a void that was out there. There was great content for 20 and 30-year-olds. You know, they have Salon and different websites that cater to them, but there wasn't anything really out there for that demographic that was intelligently written, but still had some pop culture stuff, and tackled health issues that we go through at middle age. But did it for a “mature” audience. And I think they really found a great little spot in the Internet because I love to read content written by people in middle age, involving anything. Involving fashion one day, and health one day, and relationships one day. And what marriage looks like after a couple of decades. And what empty nesting is going to look like. So, I just kind of fell into writing for them. And that's been, a nice little outlet for me as my kids age. And I wanna write more about just issues in this life instead of set up just my kids all the time.
Katie (15:57):
Yeah, absolutely. And so what are some of the topics that have really resonated with your readers? I'm curious because you cover lots of different things. What are, what are people in this demo really focused on? What's getting the clicks?
Melissa (16:09):
Getting the clicks at The Girlfriend is typically relationship pieces, friendship pieces, anything involving sex. We're still having sex.
Katie (16:24):
Sssh. Don't tell your kids!
Melissa (16:24):
I don't know how this notion that middle age, your sex life just dies. I don't know where that came from because the sex pieces that we write are always get the biggest clicks. Definitely relationships and, you know, what middle-age is supposed to look like. I mean definitely being 50 is not what 50 was when our moms were 50. I feel, I'm 48, but I have days where I'm like, "Oh, I'm really 24 or 25." I feel like I can still do those things and think those things. And so, pieces about what middle-age is supposed to look like. What's it look like for you.
Katie (17:01):
Melissa when you say middle-age doesn't look like what it looked like for our moms though. But I'm like sitting here literally feeling guilty because I have no idea what midlife looked like for my mom, because I was too busy being a teenager to ask her. So, maybe she did feel like, super vibrant and was having lots of sex. And it was just, I don't know, because I was too busy being a self-centered teen to figure out what it looked like. I don't know. I'm hoping that my daughter, at some point isn't like, "Oh my God." My mom wasn't doing anything, but she'll have documented evidence that I was trying new things. Because I'll have these podcasts tapes. But when you say that sex and stuff, what are some of the... What do we need to know? What have you learned that you should be sharing with our audience and write on your piece?
Melissa (17:53):
They encouraged me to do a piece on something as awkward as buying marital, marital aides online. I can't even say it.
Katie (18:05):
Marital aide. What is that a euphemism for? Melissa, do tell? I think you need to be more descriptive.
Melissa (18:13):
We had to use that in the piece. So, you know, it could be some things may be a little, feel a little weird about going to an adult toy store and they want to shop online or shop online a lot. So, pieces like that, how to buy that, you know how to buy those things online. Sexual health is a huge topic for our audience. I did a piece on pelvic floor therapy.
Katie (18:34):
That is super hot. Actually, my podcast guest was a doctor and we talked about menopause. She's an OB-Gyn and we covered menopause. And when the show ended, she said, “What you need to do next is pelvic floor health because people do not talk about that.” And that is everything from urinary incontinence to more pleasurable sex to... I mean, I don't know other things, you're the expert now Melissa, you tell me.
Melissa (19:00):
That was a good piece. And again, it's people, it's women thinking that urinary incontinence is normal. “I've had several kids, I'm 50. That's just the way it is.” And that is NOT the way it is. That exists the same as if you threw your knee out, you would get PT for your knee. If you have pelvic floor issues from having children and age, there's therapy for that. And you don't have to suffer. So, that was a great piece.
Another piece that did really well was about perimenopausal depression. Sometimes women confuse it with midlife crisis or midlife malaise, or just have the blues. But it's actually, women who suffered from any form of postpartum depression during their childbearing years are much more likely to have paramedical perimenopausal depression. That's something that we just think, "Oh, I'm headed towards the change of life." And you know, "I'm a little moody, I'm a little sad, I'm a little blue." There's actually physical, physiological reasons for that. And you know, you can talk to your doctor about that, especially if you have had depression and especially if you've had postpartum depression. That change of life. And right before the change of life can bring up, bring bouts of depression you may not be expecting. And it's very treatable.
Katie (20:16):
Fascinating. And by the way, I have excellent doctors and nobody's ever asked me that question. They've never, I mean, I had to bring up to my doctor. I'm like, "I think I'm in menopause." Like, I don't know what's going on. And you know, she's great, but you have to kind of own your own healthcare a bit. You know, the health industry has changed and even great doctors are really crunched for time. They don't have a lot it. It's kind of, "You're in, you're out," so you really have to own that stuff. And if you don't even know that you be asking about these things, so it's so important that people are writing about it. They're talking about it. They're covering it.
Melissa (20:54):
Yeah, that piece got a lot of feedback, a lot of emails sent to me like, "Thank you. I was depressed. And I just thought this was part of it. And now I'm going to seek treatment. And I just thought I had to be miserable for those few years up and up and through menopause, but now I'm going to get treatment." It's treatable. We don't have to suffer with that...
Katie (21:14):
Making it, making a difference. So, I'm curious. Your day job, tell us a little bit more about that. And then I want to ask you about how, like technically how you got into the writing stuff. So, tell us about your...
Melissa (21:27):
I teach in a program. It's through our, actually it's through our public library system. Now we teach and I'm in Florida. So, we have a lot of customers, so-to-speak, we teach senior citizens technology in the library. I've been a librarian for many, many years.
I kind of fell into teaching the senior citizens technology. I actually love it. I love them. I love that they have no filter. I love teaching an 85-year-old how to use Twitter. I love their stories, their life stories. They really make aging look not terrible and scary, you know, they're still out there. They still want to learn. They want to learn Facebook and they want to get on Instagram. And so we have a program at our public library for senior citizens for learning those social media platforms. And that's what I do now.
Katie (22:20):
Very cool. And then you shared a little bit at the top of the show about how you got into blogging and freelance writing, but I'm curious about the nitty-gritty. So, for anyone who's listening, who's thought, "I have something to say, and I want to be a writer." How does it actually work? You got discovered, I think from one of your blog posts that went viral, but do you need to pitch your editor's stories? Do they come to you with stories? How does it actually all come about?
Melissa (22:49):
I still feel like I'm learning how it actually all comes about. And you know, I've been doing it for many years. Another writer once told me, "Keep creating good content and it will be found." And so, you know, I created content and people reached out to me and said, "Can you come join our staff? We're looking for someone to write about this type of stuff." And I said, yeah. And then that kind of led to other websites reaching out to me. The pitch, the pitching is pretty much mutual. If I have a great idea, I will pitch it to them and they will say, "Yeah, that sounds great." Or if they're looking for something specific, like, okay, "We want a piece on adolescent boys,” or something, they'll reach out to me.
Katie (23:32):
You own that market. We're just waiting for a blogger with five sons to come along. But until then you own, you own the teen boy market.
Melissa (23:39):
Right? When I started, I had no concept of being paid to write. Didn't know what to charge, what that looked like. Well, for many months I sent stuff, content to websites for free, or syndicated stuff and was not compensated. I had to have somebody, another writer actually tell me, "You know, words have worth. And you're creating a product. And the same way somebody would sell something they made, your product is your writing. And that has a value to it." And that just seemed like an odd concept to me. So, I had to have another female writer saying, "You know, you have worth, this has value. You sell your writing." And that was like, "Oh! This is what people do."
Katie (24:27):
That's a good friend. That was a good piece of career advice.
Melissa (24:30):
Very good piece of career advice. Because you know, I was new. I didn't know. I thought I was just getting my...you know, a lot of websites go, well send us your stuff and we'll give you exposure. Which is fine at the beginning. But once you have kind of a following, and you know what readers want. It became, "Okay. You can't just have this. This is how much this costs." You know, being brave enough to put that out there. And then, I say, “See, the pieces do well." I make pretty decent money now for the pieces. I write it, but it wasn't, you know, it was a long kind of a process. Again, writing, like I would say, is my side hustle, and you know, some days it does feel very much like a job. And that kind of takes the joy out of it a little bit. But when I do feel like I have something to say and share, the words come up pretty easily, and then to be compensated for that is just really a bonus.
Katie (25:30):
Yeah. It's like the cherry on the top of the sundae. So, what would be your top two to three tips? I mean, do you have them? If somebody was looking to get into this business, what would you like? Where would you say this is where you should begin? And this is what you need to do immediately do next?
Melissa (25:47):
I guess for freelance writing, you've really got to be very active on social media platforms. I'm not as active as I probably should be.
Katie (25:57):
You have 90,000 people following your every move on Facebook! That's active.
Melissa (26:02):
All day, every day. Some people post all day, every day. I don't really have that time. But you know, get your content out there. You'd probably have to share pieces several times a day. I would have the same name for all of my platforms and I would probably change it to my name instead of being known as FourBoysMother, I would probably keep my name attached to it like MelissaFenton.com. If I could do it all over again.
Katie (26:28):
It's not too late. You should do that. You should think about doing that. That's my day job. Personal branding. It's not too late to make this move. We'll talk later. We'll talk off air.
Melissa (26:39):
Okay. But see something like that seems very odd to me. Like branding myself, but that's what we do these days. So, I would say not to be shy about promoting yourself. Keep creating content. Keep pitching people to. I would join… There's a lot of freelance writing groups on Facebook. And all the women are very supportive. And you know, if they see a job opening coming up or “Hey, this website looking for writers to write about XYZ.” So, those groups are out there. I would join those groups and just keep creating. Just keep creating content and it'll be found. It'll be found. It's good enough, it'll be found.
Katie (27:14):
And what about a book? Do you see a book in your future or is that one of those annoying questions? Like, "Can't I just be like happy with what I'm doing?" But have you ever? Because sometimes I feel like our culture is like, "What else? What's more?" Maybe it's a two part question. Do you want to write a book, or do you feel like your plate is full and you're enjoying where you're at?
Melissa (27:35):
It depends on the day. Some days I do, I have ideas for a book in my head all the time. And some days I'm like, "Nah, no. I don't need to write a book to feel like I did anything special.” But if I did write one, I would probably.... There's a genre out there it's called a food-oir. It's very popular. It's kind of part memoir, part kind of food. Because obviously with four boys, I cook lots. And I would probably, weave stories on raising four boys, adolescents, teens with how I fed these children and kept them alive. Food-oirs are very popular genre right now in nonfiction. There's a lot of them out there. Stories, people, people kind of tell stories of their life, interspersed with recipes. Family recipes, things like that. So, if I did maybe that, but like I said, I have days where I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good. I'm content."
Katie (28:32):
What are some of the good food-oirs that we should know about? If we want to get our feet wet?
Melissa (28:38):
Like the food-oirs that I’ve read?
Katie (28:41):
Yeah. I'm putting you on the spot, but do you have any good ones you'd recommend?
Melissa (28:46):
David Leibovitz, with, The Sweet Life in Paris. You know, he was a writer. Moved to Paris. Started writing about food, and Paris and writing about his life. So he's done a couple books, like The Sweet Life in Paris.
Katie (29:02):
For me it’s, Comfort Me with Apples. Yeah. Comfort Me With Apples. I'm drawing a blank on the author too, but it's...
Melissa (29:10):
My Berlin Kitchen, about growing up in East Berlin. When they write their stories interspersed with health, and food, I love that.
Katie (29:24):
Yeah. I love it. So, who are some of your favorite people to follow online for parenting and midlife advice?
Melissa (29:32):
Oh my goodness. Well, all the writers at Grown & Flown are great. And there's actually a Grown & Flown group. That's a great group to be a part of. Of course The Girlfriend; I love all the writers there as well and follow their content. Your Teen for Parents is a great website to follow with good content about adolescents. You want bloggers I follow?
Katie (30:01):
Yeah. If there's anyone that came to mind. You've already shared a number of great ideas. I love Grown & Flown as well too. I have yet to buy the book, but I'm putting that on my list of things to do.
Melissa (30:12):
It just came out in paperback. I have a little, little teeny chapter in there. Yeah. It's a great book. It's a great resource you can go back to. That's a book that you can start reading when your kids start high school and you can refer to it as your kids are finishing college. It spans those years.
Katie (30:33):
It's a tricky time period when your kids are going to school. But I also think that there's a separate set of sort of mourning that happens when they graduate from college, because the nest is like truly empty, if they're not coming back. So, I think that could be surprising to people because they think the high school graduation is where they're going to start to feel the anxiety, but it comes again, in waves.
Melissa (30:58):
It does come out. Like, I had that this spring. I had a son graduate college and I did have that. He sucker-punched me like, well, "He's not coming home ever again." And that was a definitely appeared well. And then of course it was right in the middle of the pandemic, so mentally we were all over the place anyway, but I did have that like, "Well, really not coming home now." And he's taken that next step in his life. And it's okay, I have to do a lot of self-talk of, this is what it's supposed to look like. This is how it's supposed to be. I would be more worried if he moved back home in my basement.
Katie (31:33):
Totally.
Melissa (31:35):
This the phases of life. This is what it looks like. This is what it's supposed to happen. He's not coming home. And that's a good thing.
Katie (31:44):
Parenting is the only job where if you do it right, you fire yourself.
Melissa (31:51):
That's right. I love that quote. Very, very true. Yep. Yep.
Katie (31:56):
I have to say, "My poor mom." She still fields a lot of phone calls from us and we're all in our... So, It never ends, it never ends.
Melissa. This has been so much fun. You've shared a bunch of wonderful tips. I grilled you, and put you on the spot, but is there any one other product or resource that we should let our listeners know about before we wrap up?
Melissa (32:19):
Sure. I have another book I could recommend. And this is a book that I first read when my first son went away to college. And it's called, From Mom to Me Again: How I survived My First Empty Nest Year and Reinvented the Rest of My Life. And it's by Melissa Shultz. It's great reference, whether you've got your house is already empty or you're of in that transition period where you have kids at college, and some at home. And it's, it's a very good handbook on what it's going, what the second half of your life is going to look like when it's not managed by running a household of children and how it's okay for this new season of life for you to put, you know, be me again and to be not just mom, but to be, you know, just be you and not have to worry about children anymore. It's a great resource. I love Melissa's writing. She also has written for The Girlfriend as well. So again, it's called, From Mom to Me Again by Melissa Schultz.
Katie (33:11):
Sounds fabulous. I'm going to put that into the show notes. And how can our listeners keep following you, and following your blog, and learn more about you and your writing?
Melissa (33:20):
Well, you can find me on my Facebook page. It's facebook.com/fourboysmother. I have an Instagram with the same handle, @fourboysmother. But mostly you'll find my writing at the AARP, at The Girlfriend. And they also have a second publication coming out called The Ethel. I'll be having some writing in there and as well, you can find my writing on the website Grown & Flown.
Katie (33:41):
Terrific. Thank you so much, Melissa. Thank you for being here.
Melissa (33:44):
This has been terrific. Thanks for having me.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. Thanks for listening. Please help us grow by heading to Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to subscribe, rate and leave a review. And visit us@acertainagepod.com for show notes and bonus content. Special thanks to Michael Michael Mancini Productions who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time. And until then: age boldly, beauties.