Dating Coach Amy Nobile Helps Us Swipe Right on Love, Decode Dating Apps and Find Self-Compassion
Show Snapshot:
Back on the dating scene? Meet dating coach Amy Nobile, who firmly believes that you can swipe right on love. She did it herself after leaving a 20-year marriage in midlife. Amy walks us through dating apps, online flirting, why your best first date is a “mini screener date,” and how to design a dating profile that attracts your swooniest, best match. Bonus! Amy offers ideas to change the energy around your dating life by first falling in love with yourself. If you are ready to download Bumble or Tinder or want thoughtful prompts for looking at your personal happiness and asking yourself, "Am I where I want to be?" this show is for you!
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Quotable:
We have to be vulnerable. I call it skillful vulnerability— we have to show who we are. If you are someone who you has three cats, and you love Bruce Springsteen, let's put it out there. That’s the hardest part; we are never taught how to be vulnerable. And it feels scary.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm kicking off today's show with a quick story. 27 years ago, I introduced my high school friend Eileen to my college friend Bill. Fast forward a few years and they got married. I got credit at the rehearsal dinner for the matchmaking and every year on her anniversary, we text and I pat myself on the back. But the reality, this connection was simply happenstance. Eileen and I randomly went into a bar one night where Bill was hanging out, and it would have been super duper weird of me not to introduce Eileen as I caught up with Bill. And Bill was no dummy. It's not every day a gorgeous, tall, smart, kind blonde falls into your lap. And the rest is history. My guest today is somebody who brings a lot more intention, deliberation and expertise into the science and art of human connection, modern dating and finding love and companionship. Amy Nobile is the founder of 'love, amy' - a dating coach service that marries the technology of modern day dating with a holistic view of human to human energy and connection. She is a firm believer that you can swipe right on love. And she's here to walk us through dating apps, online flirting, and why for the love of God, people need to stop treating first dates like job interviews. Plus, how you can change the energy around your dating life by first falling in love with yourself. If you're back on the dating scene, or perhaps never left it, if you're curious about Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, or if you have zero interest in dating, but wants some thoughtful prompts for taking a good look at your personal happiness and asking yourself, am I where I want to be? Stick around, this show is for you. Welcome, Amy.
Amy Nobile 1:47
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Katie Fogarty 1:50
I'm excited as well. I've been wanting to do a show on this topic for a while. We're gonna dive into all your practical coaching advice for the modern dating scene, which is, you know, dating apps, but I would love to kick off with your own story. Why did you become a dating coach and launch love, amy?
Amy Nobile 2:06
Yeah, so this is really the biggest plot twist of my entire life. And the really quick story is, I have a background in PR and marketing. I have written four books all designed to empower women at different points in their lives. And the latest book I wrote, co-wrote, with a friend is called Just When You're Comfortable in Your Own Skin, It Starts to Sag. And it's all about kind of reinventing yourself at 40 plus. And here we are. We're interviewing hundreds of women across the country and it's really about reevaluating your life and making conscious choices, right. So I'm hearing all these stories of women reevaluating their marriages. And I realized that I have to do the same thing and I have to face the really harsh reality that I need to leave this marriage. And we were married for 20 years, we were together for 26 years, two preteens, and it was the toughest thing that I had ever done, right. So here I am in New York City, I have talked myself out of this long standing relationship, and I am hoping to meet people the old fashioned way, right. So I'm like walking around New York, I'm trying to talk to people in Starbucks, and they're looking at me like I have murdered people. And I'm like, Okay, wow, things have really shifted and changed. So I take a couple of my single girlfriends out for drink and I'm like, Okay, guys, give me all your tips, tips and tricks for online dating. And all I got was like horror stories, you know? And I thought no no no no no, hold on. Like, there's 100 million users on Bumble so there is a missing link. I have a weird nerdy social anthropology brain so I sort of set out to figure it out. So I literally made dating my job, I would post up at my favorite coffee shop or bar and I would slot people in. And I probably did three years of dating and six months.
Katie Fogarty 4:02
Wow.
Amy Nobile 4:02
Yeah, and it was crazy. And I made every mistake one can make, literally. And then I started to crack the code. And I realized something pretty profound, for me, which is no one ever teaches us how to do this. No one ever taught us, you know, it's like, Why? Why aren't we taught relational skills at a younger age, like how to consciously choose your partner, choose people in your life, friends, partners, right? So I did meet the love of my life four years ago on Bumble. And at that point, I had really figured out the secret sauce. How to present yourself online accurately, how to ask the right questions, how to know what you stand for, and then ask those questions on a date, right? And so I started helping friends not only redo their profiles and teach them how to banter online, which is an art unto itself, but then what happens when you're in person? You know, it's not, it's like, no, thank you Disney, it's not about being chosen. It literally is about whether, just seeing if you're aligned with someone. And it's that simple.
Katie Fogarty 5:14
I'm so excited to get into all of this, to talk about the profile. And I love the way you talk about being aligned with your match. But I want to just rewind for a minute and ask you, you know, you, you said, you treated this dating like a job, right? And that you squeezed in three years of dating in a few months, which was kind of astonishing. But you also say that dates shouldn't be a job interview. So walk us through what you mean in the distinction, like, why, how to approach dating, like with intentionality. But why, how do we not get into that very sort of, you know, rote, formal job interview mode? What's the distinction?
Amy Nobile 5:53
Yes, it's, it's a very good question. I do not recommend treating dating like a job, per se. I, I'm a weirdo and I do that, but I tell other people -
Katie Fogarty 6:02
So what did that look like, though? I mean, were you there, like nine to five or like, what kind of job was this?
Amy Nobile 6:08
Yeah, I mean, literally, I had like baristas like, they knew what my whole mission was and they would, we'd have hand signals. If I order a nonfat latte, you have to hover because this is not going well. No, I mean, it was like three, four dates. Three, four or five dates on certain days, right. So I would, I would, I would bring my journal and my laptop, and I would slot people in with lots of cushion in between, because you never know. And so I don't recommend that, like that is, that was just me being me, and it obviously evolved into something bigger. So you don't want to treat it like a job. But you do want to place it at the top of your priority list. Because I hear this all the time and I have this really long intake form I have my clients fill out, and I say, list your priorities in your life, you know, and they say, finding a partner who is right for me as number one. But here's the thing, they're not prioritizing it. They're not swiping, they're hiding from it, because we have to be vulnerable. And that's the part that's, you know, really scary is, I call it skillful vulnerability, like, we have to show who we are right away in the profile. If you are someone who, you know you have three cats, and you love Bruce Springsteen, and you, you know, it's like, let's put yourself out there. And then keep peeling the onion for people as you go. And I think that's the hardest part is, we are never taught how to be vulnerable. And it feels scary. And, but the thing is, it's like, it's not about being perfect. And it's not about being chosen. And I think that's really important to know.
Katie Fogarty 7:54
So let's talk about this notion of not being chosen, because I am here for that, right. You know, we get, we get to, you know, a certain age and you know, I, you got married young obviously, because you had a, you know, a 20 plus year marriage, a 26 year relationship, two children. So you connected with your ex husband early, I got married early as well. And sometimes, you know, I feel like it was like accidental that it keeps working, you know, how do you know at 20 that it's gonna keep working at 50. But this notion of like we, we get to midlife and we choose ourselves, right? So how do you bring that spirit into your dating life? Rather than let's do that mindset shift first, and then get into the nitty gritty of creating profiles and sort of getting in action. How do you choose yourself so that you can, you know, connect with the right person?
Amy Nobile 8:46
Yeah, that's, that's really the pivotal question. And it's sort of funny, when people come to me, it's like, Okay, hurry up, hurry up, I just need to find my person. But once I have them fill out this intake form, it's sort of a trick, because I'm gauging their self love. And I'm gauging their self compassion. And I'm gauging what, do they even know values they stand for? So I have them take a core values quiz. And it's always surprising, because it spits out these core values that you thought, oh, gosh, I didn't realize the gratitude is number one. Or I didn't realize that humor's actually, number one, so. So yes, you know, I always say you can only meet someone as deeply as you've met yourself. And that's the truth. And so all the roads lead back to self love and self compassion. And, you know, I'm super woo woo. I'm an, you know, I'm an intuitive so I always bring that to the table. And to me, it's about where you vibrate. What emotion is your setpoint. So if your setpoint is frustration, over where is my person, you know, I'm not where I thought I'd be or, it's really it gets in the way. You know, we have to make our setpoint more compassion, more love, we have to forgive ourselves, right? I mean, I see people all the time stuck in this place of, I failed, the marriage failed. I'm a failure. And, you know, the more self love, self compassion, and forgiveness we can give ourselves, which is extremely difficult for people to do, like they'll give their best friend all of that but when it comes to themselves, they're their own worst critic. Right? We have to pay attention to that voice in our head, and make sure that it's more loving. But you nailed it. That's it. That's the work and that's what we start with.
Katie Fogarty 10:34
Okay, so I love, I love this. So Amy, we're heading into a quick break but when we come back, I want to hear a tactical tip on how we realize this self love, if that's something that a listener is struggling with.
[AD BREAK]
Okay, Amy, we're back. We talked about the importance of really being kind to yourself, having that inner voice that's supportive, because you need to feel amazing about yourself before anyone else is going to feel amazing about you. So if you're working with a client who's not there yet, do you recommend that they not jump into the dating pool? Do you recommend working with a therapist? What's a way that a woman who's listening to this show can move, can move herself into the right mind set so she can truly get back in action?
Amy Nobile 12:36
Yeah, I love this question so much. So there's something you can do right away on your own. First of all, a journal is your best friend in your dating journey, I think in your life journey. But especially in your dating journey, because your journal is really your higher self speaking to you. But it's also very cathartic to sort of every morning, start to journal, but there's something called five by five, okay. And if you do this for one month, every morning, five by five, I promise you, your self love and self compassion will start to grow. And you'll feel a shift, because I've seen the magic happen.
Katie Fogarty 13:09
And what is it?
Amy Nobile 13:09
So it's when you get up, hopefully before you grab your phone but I get that, so sometime in bed, you are going to do a five minute guided meditation. I love the Calm app, it has different categories. So five minute guided meditation, you're gonna grab your journal, you're gonna write down five things you love about yourself. I know this is tough, believe it or not, this is really tough for people. They always say, do I have to have five different things everyday? I mean, like, well your best friend would have a million things. So, but it can be anything, anything, your eyelashes are long. And five things you're grateful for. So five, five, five every morning and what that does is it starts to rewire our mindset. So that you're waking up and you're starting the day in a different place, you're starting to to vibrate from gratitude. And that really will help so much, you know, shift, shift everything.
Katie Fogarty 14:05
And you really feel you're starting from a point of positivity and sort of, sort of, maybe self confidence and self love, which helps, you know, fuel you. I do the gratitude things in the morning, but I don't do the other two. I'm only doing five of the 15 so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to incorporate that and see how I feel. So once you've done that, once you kind of feel like you're starting to feel more confident, you're, you are starting to feel like I have a lot to offer, I'm excited to meet somebody and bring this energy to them, you know, how do we make sure that we're connecting with the right person, that we're not, you know, putting our hearts out there and potentially getting crushed? You know, how do we ID potential right out of the gate when we start dating? Are there things that we should be looking for?
Amy Nobile 14:50
Yeah, if we're talking about online dating, which is sort of what, you know, I specialize in because 50 to 60% of all couples start online now. If we're talking about online dating, this is where people get stuck. This is the number one thing I want you guys to know, and to remember, is that same amazing guy that you're about to meet on Saturday night at your friend's dinner party is also on Bumble. But you will swipe left, which is no, and here's why. A, nobody knows how to do this. So the profiles, there are amazing people all over the apps disguised in really mediocre profiles. Okay, so that is what I want everybody to know. You are going to put yourself on this app, and you're gonna have your friend take pictures, you're gonna be like, alright, I'm doing this, and then you start to swipe, and you're like, what on God's earth is going on here. And the thing is, you know, we're trying to feel some sort of energy, right? Just like we're trying to replicate that energy you feel when you're at that dinner party, meeting that guy, and you're not gonna feel it, it's just not possible. So you have to remove sort of that expectation and just go in and say, Okay, this is a numbers game, right? He's either in the zone or not, in the zone just means all right, a few boxes are ticked, he's reasonably okay looking, because everyone's bad at this. And that's gonna be a yes and you're gonna say hi, right. So that's what I want people to know. Because I think the minute people sign up for an app, they want to chuck their phone across the room. Because it seems really tough.
Katie Fogarty 16:26
And so if you're thinking like, I'm just going to pick, like, I'm going to reach into this pool of, you know, what was the number on Bumble? I was astonished it was, how many people?
Amy Nobile 16:36
100 million users.
Katie Fogarty 16:37
100 million users. So if you think you're gonna open the app, and like, miraculously pick one perfect guy out of 100 million users, you know, you might be disappointed. So what you're suggesting is that you try to connect with a large number of people and then you have these exploratory conversations. And then what? Have a first date to figure out if you should have a second, what comes next?
Amy Nobile 16:58
Yeah, I mean, listen, here's the reality. If you want one screener, mini screener date a week, and a mini screener date is not a real date, you should never go on a real date on a Saturday night with someone you met on an app. It should be 30-40, maybe an hour, right. It's coffee, early drink, so that's a mini screener just to see if you want to go on a real date. If you went on one a week, you will be swiping and talking about an hour a day. That's the average. So put Instagram away and put Bumble front and center. And you're just gonna say hi to like 20-25 people a day, see if, see who sparks conversation. You really have to look at this as a numbers game and really remove your emotions like, Oh - I see people all the time - Oh, I saw this profile and it was perfect and then we were talking, we were bantering, and then he ghosted me, what happened? It's like, we can't get into that, because we don't know these people. So we just have to throw out a bunch of, you know, hellos and how are you and start bantering and just see what shakes out and you're gonna go on mini screener dates that, that's like 45 minutes, no big deal.
Katie Fogarty 18:08
So let's talk a little bit more about this mini screener date, because I feel like this is a genius concept. So what you're saying is, you know, don't get all dolled up. Don't devote your Saturday, Saturday is for like your amazing friends in your life. And you're doing these mini screener dates, these like 30 minute coffees, with just sort of a range of people to see what? If there's chemistry or that, if they're interesting? What happens on these screener dates that then allow us to move to date number two, which you're describing as the real date?
Amy Nobile 18:35
You got it.
Katie Fogarty 18:35
How do we assess the screener, the screener candidates?
Amy Nobile 18:39
Yeah, exactly. So I review with my clients, what's our first date roadmap? What does it look like, right? It should always look about the same. And this is, this is how mine went, I'll just give my example. So I would sit down, I get there 15 minutes early. I'm journaling, I'm meditating, I'm reading. And then Mike sits down in front of me, like, Hey, Mike, now I've already set my energy, so I'm like, okay, cool. You could have literally put like Darth Vader in front of me at a certain, it just didn't, I was like, nothing was gonna fluster me. Like, Oh, hey, Mike, and I would always ask the first question, because I wanted to set that energy. So I, my opener was always like, hey, so we met on Bumble, little awkward. How's it going for you? Like how's online dating going? Right? And what that does is it cuts through the BS of like, the weather and awkward stuff, and it kind of just makes it real. And guess what, we're on the same team, me and Mike. We're on the same team, this is hard, right? And also, we're getting information because someone will tell you how it's going and someone likely will tell you what led to them being online. So it's really good information. Beyond that, now you're just chit chatting, you want to weave in one or two questions that you wish someone would ask you on a first date. Okay, so I, my two questions were number one, how are your kids? Tell me about your kids, because I exclusively dated guys with kids, because I was in my late 40s when I was out there. And that was really, really helpful for me to, I needed that person's eyes to light up, right? And if they didn't, that was going to be a no for me. My second question was, because my number one value is gratitude, so my next question was, hey, so I'm gonna pivot the conversation here, what role does gratitude play for you? And I'm asking because it happens to be my number one core value, you know? And if someone looked at me like, well, that's kind of silly, isn't it? I knew that wasn't my person. And oftentimes, it's like, it was interesting. It shifted the energy of the whole date, like someone who I'd written off would be like, Wow, I have a gratitude practice, I think it is the most important thing. And then all of a sudden, we found an alignment, right? So these are not throwaway little dates. These are really, really important to see if you have any thread of alignment.
Katie Fogarty 20:57
Yeah, you're cutting, you're cutting through the chase. I love, first of all I love that you're not sitting down and talking about the weather and like awkward stuff. You're diving right in like, hey, like, isn't this weird? We're online dating and like having, like, I mean, because I think that there's a lot of artifice, you know, with, it sounds like there's a lot of artifice, with like the dating or vulnerability. And just to acknowledge like, yeah you and I are having this kind of weird experience, like how's it going for you? Which is just such an honest question to ask and then to have these two very incisive questions that matter to you makes so much sense. So you've been using the word alignment and core value a couple times in this conversation, I would love to, you know, actually have you explain a little bit more about your, your thinking around core values, and how that helps us decide if we are or are not in alignment with a potential partner?
Amy Nobile 21:47
Yeah, I think it really, knowing what your core values are, and knowing what you stand for, it, that provides the entire roadmap for your dating life. Because here's the thing, if you really have a lot of people who, a lot of clients who, like family is their number one core value, what does that mean? They really, really want and need somebody who values family, above all else. So you know, they want someone who has strong family ties, they want someone who wants a family, and whatever that definition is. So that is going to drive a lot of your questions forward. And it's going to inform so much. Conversely, I have a client right now and her number one core value is humor. Right? And so we developed like, the way we developed her online profile is so her and it's very, very wickedly funny, dry humor. And so we, you know, she's an attorney, and before her profile was so dry, it's what she thought people wanted to see. So it really, knowing your core values will help, help you understand whether or not you're aligned with other people.
Katie Fogarty 23:00
It's so smart cause it also just allows you to, you know, set aside people that just aren't, even if they're nice guys, and this is probably like, I think people wind up in the trap of hanging out with people that it's never going to, it's never going to become real. It's never going to, because they're just wasting their time with people that are great people maybe or nice people or sort of good on paper people, but aren't really their people. Talk to me also about this notion of the four C's, which I've seen on your website, and I've heard you talk about in other podcasts. What's, describe this to our listeners?
Amy Nobile 23:34
Yeah, so I mean, there's, we have to remember what, what's important to us. And so the four C's for most people that I work with, are commitment, compassion, connection, and communication. And, again, these aren't going to be you know, the concrete four C's for everybody. But it's really, really good to know what you're looking for in a partner. I have my clients do this visioning exercise. And what they do is, you know, I want a partner who dot dot dot, and I want a partner who makes me feel dot, dot, dot, I want a partner who stands for dot, dot, dot, right. And so everything that you really, it's like things you think you want on paper, like, I want him to have this kind of job, I want him to have gone to this kind of school, I want him to have this type of family. Right? We think, like you just nailed it. It's like we think we know. But at the end of the day, we have to really go deep internally to understand what again, what we stand for, and what we want. And that will, you know, the questions will pour out of you once you are clear on that.
Katie Fogarty 24:52
It's so interesting, because as I shared like I met my husband at a bar when I was 19. So,
Amy Nobile 24:59
There you go, roll the dice.
Katie Fogarty 25:00
Right. My core value was like, is somebody's gonna buy me a beer, you know? That, and you know, that was
Amy Nobile 25:07
That's amazing.
Katie Fogarty 25:07
You know, it was so long ago. And, you know, I, we don't always bring intention to our relationships. But when we get to midlife, we bring intention to a lot of things, right? We bring intention to how we take care of our health, how we are sort maybe parenting, raising our children, our careers, you know, longevity. And it makes so much sense to me that we need to bring this sort of same level of intention around our dating life. So I love this.
Amy Nobile 25:33
Well, yeah, there's yeah, there's a reason the divorce rate is so high. I mean, it continues to escalate. And I'm convinced it's because no one teaches us how to be intentional about arguably the most important thing in your whole life.
Katie Fogarty 25:46
And you've given us some great prompts to think about, like, what do we value? What do we want in a partner? I love all those ideas that you just shared. Let's get into the nitty gritty of a dating profile, because as you shared with your one particular client, who was this very humorous, you know, smart, witty lawyer, she wasn't showing up like that on her dating profile.
Amy Nobile 26:09
Exactly.
Katie Fogarty 26:10
What are the, what are the elements of a successful dating profile? Walk us through maybe the component parts, the photo, the bio, and most importantly, like, how do we interject ourselves into it?
Amy Nobile 26:22
Yeah, yeah exactly. So pictures, this is the number one most hated element behind bantering. Have your best friend accompany you outside in the sunshine, change your outfit three or four times, and what you are trying to capture is that sparkle in your eye. That's the most important thing is your lead photo, it's probably shoulders up or waist up, and it's you outside laughing. Maybe you're playing with your dog, and you're like, kind of looking off camera, but you can just see that sparkle. Your best friend should look at that photo and go, Oh my God, I need that photo, that's so you, right. And I think we get that wrong a lot of times, so that's the most important thing. You definitely need a full length. Don't make it overly sexy, but you need, maybe you're at a wedding with a glass of wine, or maybe you're running a marathon, you know, whatever. I love the action shot, skiing, you're, maybe you're in a kayak, one group shot is okay. So that's, that's the photos for the most part. The most important thing about the prompts, is to be really specific. And don't be afraid to state what you want. I have a client right now and she's terrified of saying she wants a life partner. And we have to, you know, we have to just push through our fear and put it out there. I think one of the prompts should be like my simple pleasures and get really specific, like, I'm a sudoku nerd, I love you know, Sex in the City on repeat on a Sunday, you know, get really specific. I love the key to my heart. So that's what you can say, key to my heart, compassion, generosity, laughter. I'm looking for, you know, my last first date was someone who laughs as hard as I do at, you know, Knocked Up. I think you just, you want to be really, really specific. And then I love two truths and a lie, because that's a really fun one. And that forces you to sort of like, get creative. I won, I won a National Spelling Bee in third grade, I danced with Rod Stewart all night, and I ran three marathons. So I mean it's -
Katie Fogarty 28:31
By the way Amy, I want all of those things to be true for you.
Amy Nobile 28:36
I'm never gonna say, I'm never gonna say.
Katie Fogarty 28:38
How fun. Oh, my gosh, I love this. So actually you're making it seem like it's a lot of fun and I feel like people should bring that spirit to this, I guess unless your like, true core self is, you know, serious, in which case, you need to present yourself that way. How do we, how do we look at somebody else's profiles once we, you know, once we've created ours, and we feel like it does capture us, how do we assess other people's profiles to see if they're really a good fit? And if maybe they're not doing, they're not really putting their best foot forward?
Amy Nobile 29:09
It's nearly impossible. I mean, I will just say it is one of the most frustrating elements of this, I will sit side by side with a client, and we will swipe together. And I will watch this client literally play the tape in her head or his head and they'll say things like, oh, yeah, he wouldn't like my friends. Oh, he's not smart. Oh, yeah, well, she's not funny, I can tell. Like, we actually don't have that information. You can look at the most beautiful profile that's, like, worded perfectly for you and the pictures look so delightful and this person literally could have 12 wives in Utah. We actually don't know.
Katie Fogarty 29:47
We hope not, this isn't good.
Amy Nobile 29:50
I mean, I jest because none of my clients have ever been in a situation like that.
Katie Fogarty 29:54
Yes.
Amy Nobile 29:54
But my point is, we just have to be forgiving. So you know, hey, it looks like they've got an interesting job and I love what they said about family. The pictures are reasonable and okay, like, yeah, I'm just gonna say hi. I mean, there's enough no's, right?
Katie Fogarty 30:11
Right.
Amy Nobile 30:11
I get this all the time like, Amy, I wouldn't date 99% of these people on the app. Well, guess what? You wouldn't date 99% of people walking down the street either.
Katie Fogarty 30:19
Right.
Amy Nobile 30:19
It's, it's fine. That is normal. So of the 1%, there's, there's a tremendous gray area. So unless it's a horrible like, oh, full body, no, then you know, you might just want to say hi, and see. If you say hi, you know, hey, hey, Mike, get specific about your opener. Hey, Mike, what's your favorite cozy brunch spot in New York City? That should you know, always have an opener that's really specific to you. You might say, you might throw that out 25 times in one day, 25 different people, which sounds like Oh, my God, and of those 25 'Hey, Mike,' or 'Hey, John,' maybe one or two will respond, maybe. And that's normal.
Katie Fogarty 30:58
I love that you've normalized this actually, Amy, that, you know, it takes a little bit of work. And I think this this notion of just like, you know, opening up the app and finding, you know, Mr. Right, you know, I will look at like 25 pairs of jeans online before I buy one.
Amy Nobile 31:13
There you go. That's a great analogy, actually.
Katie Fogarty 31:16
You know, and -
Amy Nobile 31:16
It's true.
Katie Fogarty 31:17
Why not? Like, why not, you know, and then also to have this, if you have this notion of a screener date, which you have introduced us all to which I love, it takes a lot of the pressure off. Because when we, when we're looking for the one thing, it's very tricky, but when we open ourselves to the idea, like okay, I'm gonna have 20 coffees, this is a good investment in the rest of my future happiness. And it allows us to, you know, get beyond the screen. So, but you did say something about these 25 hellos, which I really like and I liked your opening line, because if you love brunch and you live in New York, you want at least like five guys to have good ideas about where you might do it. And if the other 20, you know, don't have one, but how does the online bantering work. For somebody who's never bantered online and, you know, hasn't flirted and decades, you know, catch us up. What, what should we be doing, what should we be saying, you know, how do we do it?
Amy Nobile 32:09
Let me simplify it.
Katie Fogarty 32:10
Is it, yeah, go, go, go go.
Amy Nobile 32:13
Yeah, here's the thing. Somehow we've, we've made this bantering process on a dating app totally different than the way that we would talk to our best friend or our group of friends on a group chat on text, right? It's no different, it's no different. Yeah, it's true, you don't know this human. But you want to model the behavior you want to see, always. So if you are warm and friendly and funny on text, then be warm and friendly and funny on a dating app. Because that, like is going to attract like. If someone doesn't find you funny or they unmatch you mid sentence, great, that is awesome. Because that's the universe just like chopping wood for you. Like, let's keep the forest clear, let's keep going. So it's not, again, it's not about trying to mirror and match somebody else. And thereby, it's just you being you. Right, I was very, like, I don't know, I thought it was pithy and funny. But that's sort of, I just, like, looked at this whole thing is very amusing. And I would sort of poke fun at somebody's prompt, if I thought that was, if they didn't find it funny then that was just not gonna be my person. So I just encourage people to look at the banter, like with the same vibe. Now, the thing is, most people aren't in this for the same reason that you are, if you're looking for a relationship, just know that a lot of people are on the apps dabbling, for validation, it's a good dopamine hit, maybe they're still in a marriage but unhappy, so don't be deterred by that. Like if someone ghosts you or they don't get back to you, like ugh I had this great banter going and I love the profile, and then like, they just ghosted me, it's like just unmatch.
Katie Fogarty 33:47
Right.
Amy Nobile 33:47
We don't need to know anything more than that, right?
Katie Fogarty 33:49
I think that's such great advice. Like, you don't have to take these things personally, although it probably feels hard to. But you just have to, like, if you, if your center focus is, you know, I know what I want, I have so much to offer, I'm going to connect with the right person. And these people, you know, this is not for me, you know, they were not for me, and move on to the next one. Yeah,
Amy Nobile 34:08
Right, yeah exactly. We tend to like hold on too long. Or we, we tend to overthink like, what did I do wrong? It's like, no, no, no.
Katie Fogarty 34:16
What did he, what did he or she do wrong, you know? But Amy, I'm curious, you work with clients, you know, ages from 20 to 80, I know from spending time on your website. What, if anything, do you see is different about dating in midlife versus, you know, dating in our 20s and 30s? Or does it not change? Like do the fears, you know, do they, is it all the same? Or what's your take on that?
Amy Nobile 34:39
Yeah, it's a great question. Ultimately, it's the same. Ultimately, we all want a meaningful connection with another human. We all want our partner. That's the ultimate, and our biggest limiting belief we all carry is the fear of being unlovable as we are. Okay, so that's from soup to nuts, we're all pretty much the same. And here's kind of a funny difference, is the younger set really doesn't understand how to flirt in real life. And they can banter just fine, you know, they can sort of get through the banter. My midlife set, which I deeply relate to, of course, we know how to flirt in real life, we've been doing that, like we get it. It's the technology that trips us up, like how are we supposed to, like, get from, you know, this weird technology banter. So it's just interesting, just different skill sets that I often have to help, you know, them with.
Katie Fogarty 35:35
That makes a lot of sense. You know, I'm also curious because we, I keep reading news headlines about how isolation and loneliness are sort of like a new healthcare epidemic, right? We went through COVID, we were sort of isolated, modern life kind of separates us even more sometimes. What do you, what's your take on dating for companionship versus romantic love? Or is it okay if we're simply clear in our profiles that we're looking for that? Or do, you know, what if we're unsure of our goals? What's your take on that?
Amy Nobile 36:05
Yeah, great question. I really work with clients ahead of time, you have to know what your goal is, you just do. Sometimes I have someone straight out of a marriage, and they just want to play, they want to play for a while. They should, they should date tons of people, they should know what they, you know, what they want. And after all that time, like, go, go for it. If you really just want companionship, you're a little older perhaps, I have a client who, you know, 75 years old, and it wasn't as much about the romance, but it really, really was about like a book club partner.
Katie Fogarty 36:35
Sure.
Amy Nobile 36:36
Then know that and state that in your profile and say it right up front.
Katie Fogarty 36:40
Yeah, I love that. I think, I think that, I mean, it sounds like the answer to the question is just like, you have to be clear about what you want and to communicate that to somebody else and then, then everything's fair then.
Amy Nobile 36:52
Yes.
Katie Fogarty 36:52
You know, I know that in America, nearly 50% of America's single, there's the rise of what they're calling gray divorce, which sounds terrible, because like, frankly, I'm still coloring my hair. But as we, as we get older people are, you know, either becoming unpaired for a variety of reasons. And there's sort of culturally pressure to be in a relationship, to be paired off, you know, what's your take on that? I know that you're a dating coach, and you've been able to find love again, and that you're engaged, and it's going for you. But you know, because you're a dating coach, probably when you walk into dinner parties and cocktail parties, you know, do people, are you, are you hearing all sorts of confessional stuff? You know, what's your take on, on people who are single and want to be that way? I'm just curious to hear your thinking on this.
Amy Nobile 37:35
Yeah, I mean, listen, I have yet to walk into a dinner party, where I'm not mobbed by people saying how do I do this? You know, it really is the universal, it's that, it's that sort of, we've all heard on your deathbed, you know, it's not about the job you had or the things you acquired, it's about the love, it really is about the love. So it's pretty rare that I hear someone say like, I am adamantly single, like, will everyone leave me alone. But I do, I just again, to me, it all comes back to that self love and self compassion piece. And, you know, once you fill yourself with, once you are really content with yourself, like I used to take myself on dates, because I was trying to build more of that, and more resilience and love. And I would take myself on dates, which I'd never done and I would come home and be like, to my little studio apartment in Manhattan, and I was like, I'm a good time. Like I'm a really good time, you know.
Katie Fogarty 38:38
I love that.
Amy Nobile 38:41
Yeah and I would journal it out. Like you know what, whoever lands this one, they're gonna be really lucky.
Katie Fogarty 38:49
Oh my God.
Amy Nobile 38:49
It's like, it's just true, like, you know, and so it's sort of, what that did is demystify that whole idea of, I need to be part of this coupledom. And it was all going to be okay, because once I hit that point, I was like, I'm good. I've got two good girlfriends, I've got, I'm like, I'm great.
Katie Fogarty 39:09
Oh my gosh, I love it. And you bring that energy, and that sort of joie de vivre and that confidence and that just like zest, which then attracts other people. I mean, we are attracted to people that, that do have that sort of joy and that spark and that energy. And I love that you identified yourself as being a good time, because I've been having a great time in this conversation, so I agree. Amy, we're nearing the end of our time together. We're gonna head into a speed round in a little bit. But I do want to ask you, you know, you mentioned earlier that you had a career in PR, that you wrote four books, one of which I've read, which is Just When You're Comfortable in Your Own Skin, It Starts to Sag, which is just such a genius title. And it's a wonderful book, I'll put it into the show notes. So you've done, you've iterated a lot over your career, you've sort of iterated your, your personal life as well. I'm just curious, you know I always ask people this question, you know, could you have done this earlier? Could you have launched love, amy earlier in life, or did it take getting to midlife to be able to do so?
Amy Nobile 39:10
Ah, that's a great question. It kind of makes me think of my favorite Steve Jobs quote, which is, 'in retrospect, the dots connect.' There's no way I mean, I could have seen this coming, and there's no way it would have fit earlier. It wouldn't have fit one year earlier, it had, this plot twist, this career, that is literally the joy of my life, this came in divine timing, and just like everything does. And so I really feel happier at 53, turning 54, than I've ever felt my entire life personally and professionally. I mean, bar none, I mean, my kid, my two kids in college said to me the other day, each separately like, Wow, I've never seen you this happy, this is, I'm so proud of you. And so it really is possible to reinvent yourself a million different times in a million different ways. And it just keeps getting better. It really does.
Katie Fogarty 41:05
I adore this notion. This is the perfect note to end on, the plot twist for anyone who's listening is that your, you know, most happy years, could be in the future. So keep going, put yourself out there, put yourself onto the dating apps, put yourself in action to launch a new business, to connect with new people. Because you know, you never know where it could take you. Amy, this has been so much fun, we're heading into our speed round.
Amy Nobile 41:29
So fun, Katie.
Katie Fogarty 41:29
We're heading into our speed round. So this is just one to two word answers because we want to end on a high energy note.
Amy Nobile 41:35
Okay.
Katie Fogarty 41:35
So, coaching a client on a successful date feels:
Amy Nobile 41:40
Euphoric.
Katie Fogarty 41:41
Nice. Profile photo: professional or candid?
Amy Nobile 41:45
Professional.
Katie Fogarty 41:46
Bumble, Tinder, Hinge. What's your favorite?
Amy Nobile 41:49
Bumble
Katie Fogarty 41:49
Ooh.
Amy Nobile 41:51
Well, I met Fred on Bumble and Bumble just is near and dear to my heart. It's great. It's, it really is my top choice.
Katie Fogarty 41:58
Nice, okay. For the love of God, please don't do this on your profile.
Amy Nobile 42:04
Okay, for men do not hold a big giant fish. No one cares.
Katie Fogarty 42:11
Oh my God, that's a turnoff. Okay, but what about for women?
Amy Nobile 42:14
Um, no like sexy bikini shots.
Katie Fogarty 42:18
Okay, all right. Maybe, maybe it's starting too much a little bit. Alright, surprise - people often overlook this profile must have:
Amy Nobile 42:28
Um, gosh. That's a great question. I think it's more of a general like, really, really like, whatever your nerdiest quality is like, put it in there.
Katie Fogarty 42:40
Okay, good. Yeah, bring your your whole self to the dating scene. Okay, consider this location or idea for a first screener date.
Amy Nobile 42:50
Oh, I think just like your favorite coffee shop.
Katie Fogarty 42:53
Nice, okay. Ghosting people is unkind and a no no. How do you decline a second date nicely?
Amy Nobile 43:00
You know what, you simply text them and you say, Hey, Mike, poor Mike, I don't know why I'm choosing Mike. Hey, Mike, I think you're a lovely person, had a nice time with you, feeling more of a friendship by versus romantic, I wish you well.
Katie Fogarty 43:14
Perfect. I wish you well is like don't call me again.
Amy Nobile 43:17
Yeah, I mean you know.
Katie Fogarty 43:19
That's a euphemism if I've ever heard one, but it's a nice one. All right.
Amy Nobile 43:23
It makes them feel good. It makes you know, it's fine.
Katie Fogarty 43:25
I love it. Okay, finally your one word answer to complete the sentence, as I age I feel:
Amy Nobile 43:31
Empowered.
Katie Fogarty 43:32
Nice, all right. This has been so much fun. I've learned a lot, I'm sure everyone else has too. How can our listeners find you and your dating coaching services?
Amy Nobile 43:41
Yeah, so everything you need to know, I think my cell phone even is on there, is on loveamy.co. C-O, my website.
Katie Fogarty 43:49
Fantastic. I'm putting this all in the show notes. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Thank you for tuning in, spending time, and being a friend of the show. If you learned something new, nodded along, took mental notes or feel smarter, energized, or more inspired after tuning in, I would so appreciate a written review over on Apple podcasts. Share what you learned and why you tune in because reviews matter. They help other women like you find the show. Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music, See you next time and until then keep on dating boldly beauties.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai