Former Vogue Editor Jennifer Alfano (Now EIC of The Flair Index) Talks Closet Cleanouts, Capsule Wardrobes and Céline Sweaters
Show Snapshot:
Former Vogue Editor and current digital style maven Jennifer Alfano of The Flair Index talks all things fashion, from the yummiest fall sweaters, to building a capsule wardrobe, to her “buy less, buy better credo.” Bonus, she shares tips from her “Zero Waste” closet cleanout. Because those bulging hangers and shelves aren’t going to empty themselves.
In This Episode We Cover:
Jennifer’s early career at Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar (and the unexpected test to pass to land a Vogue job).
Do the “Rules” of fashion (aka no white after Labor Day) still make sense? Did they ever?
How to nurture your own style.
What’s a capsule wardrobe and how can I get one?
Embracing turning 50 vs Hiding your age.
Post-pandemic fashion. What will we be wearing?
Jennifer’s “Zero Waste” closet cleanout. Where to sell and donate your stuff.
Fall’s coziest high-to-low sweaters.
Snackable Smarts:
Individualism has become more important in fashion than the “rules.” The new rules: wear what you feel good in and what you love.
Define what looks good on you, what you feel good in, and stick to that. Creating a uniform of clothing options eliminates the excess that ends up in your wardrobe that goes unworn.
Buy less and buy better. Have a succinct, edited wardrobe that really works for you.
An edited, capsule wardrobe is what you would take on vacation for a week.
Going forward in our post-pandemic fashion life: we're going to start wanting to get dressed (it can’t be all Zoom tops and sweatpants) but what's going to matter most are the pieces that you really have an emotional attachment to that feel good on your body.
Jennifer’s go-to feel-good items are satin slip dresses and cashmere sweaters.
A closet cleanout begins with a list. List your must-haves, always wear, your splurges, rate how often you wear all over a two-week period,
Make your closet clean out “Zero Waste,” by selling, donating or recycling all unneeded and unworn items using the resources below.
Word of Mouth. Jennifer’s Product Picks:
Céline V-Neck Sweater in Iconic Cashmere
More Resources:
Jennifer on Fall Shopping:
Jennifer’s “Zero Waste” Closet Cleanout Resources
Consignment places:
For designer: TheRealReal. While you don’t make as much on clothes as you do on accessories, the more you sell, the higher percentage you receive. Plus, their audience is huge, so at some point, everything they take will sell.
For moderate brand pieces: ThredUp. Each item only sells for a few dollars, but you can option for them to donate what they don't sell, so you don't have to deal with items being returned.
Everything else: Donate to The Goodwill. Or if you live in NYC, Housing Works (the proceeds from sales help those with HIV).
The lone socks/clothes with holes: Order a box from TerraCycle (they recycle EVERYTHING) and they will send you a cardboard box that you can fill up and then drop off at FedEx (the box has a pre-paid shipping label attached). Keep one in your laundry area until you've filled it up.
Jennifer’s The Wardrobe Project
Zero Waste” Closet Clean Out Videos
Follow Jennifer:
Transcript
Katie Fogarty (00:03):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50, who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
If you've made it to 50, and you're a woman, you have definitely read, or at least seen glossy women's magazines, trumpeting headlines, like "Age-appropriate Dressing," or "The New Rules: What to Wear at 20, 30, 40, 50, and Beyond." But who exactly makes these rules? What happens if we don't follow them? Do they exist to make getting dressed in the morning easier? Do people even still get dressed in the morning?
I'm joined today by somebody with answers: Jennifer Alfano, a former Vogue, and Harper's Bazaar editor. A believer that life needs flair, Jennifer now brings her editor's eye and impeccable taste to surface under the radar, drool-worthy finds on her addictive platform, The Flair Index. She's also the host of the podcast, She's Got Flair, which celebrates fascinating women you want to know. I am thrilled she's here to talk all things fashion, aging, developing one's style, editing and streamlining a capsule wardrobe, and her own increased focus on sustainable fashion and a "Buy Less, Buy Better" credo. Welcome, Jennifer.
Jennifer Alfano (01:11):
Thanks for having me.
Katie (01:12):
In a few minutes, I want to dive in and talk fashion and one of your projects I've been following on your Instagram, but first I'd love to hear a bit more about your early career in fashion magazines. I've been following and loving fashion since I was reading Seventeen and YM magazines. And it's always seemed like the coolest, most enviable job. How did you get started?
Jennifer (01:32):
So, if I go way back to the beginning of my career, I studied to be a classical dancer in high school and I wasn't going to college.
Katie (01:41):
Wow.
Jennifer (01:41):
And my father said, "Well, not to be a pessimist. But what happens if you break both your legs? Please apply to college." I said, "Okay, fine. I'm going to be in New York dancing." So, I applied to NYU and then got in and I quit dancing my senior year in high school.
Jennifer (01:58):
And I thought, what else do I love? And I loved writing, I loved journalism, and I had always loved fashion. My mom always had Vogue. She always had WWD. I was always going through them, tearing out pages. So, I studied journalism at NYU. And then my first job — I had an internship at Details Magazine and a friend there had been Anna Wintour's nanny and actually went onto Vogue, which was my dream job. So, I told her, I said, "I want to go to Vogue." So I applied for a job and a job position came open. But in those days you had to pass a typing test and they didn't teach typing at my all girls school. So, I failed the typing test three times but somehow managed to get the job on the condition that I would go take a typing class. It's 7:30 in the morning, three days a week before work.
Katie (02:57):
This is like a true "nevertheless she persisted" moment. I love it. And I love that it landed you at Vogue.
Jennifer (03:05):
And I stayed there for almost four years. Then I went to Harper's Bazaar as a fashion writer. I stayed there 'till I had my first daughter and the editor-in-chief passed away, Liz Tilberis. It was amazing. And I ended up going back to Bazaar two other times under Glenda Bailey and writing for other magazines. Covering fashion, anything to do with writing and fashion was my world.
Katie (03:33):
So amazing. I love that you were able to just keep at it and land these amazing gigs. So, was it as much fun as it seems in the movies? Or was it more like The Devil Wears Prada? Or was it somewhere in between?
Jennifer (03:47):
It's a little bit of both. Anna Wintour was a very demanding boss, which on one level was amazing because people worked really hard. And none of us took “No" for an answer when we were trying to find something. I remember we were doing a Christmas issue and my editor said, "I hear that you can get reindeer sausage now," which now sounds so horrible. She's like, "I want to put it in the gift guide and you have to call this guy in Russia who works through the New York Times." So, you learn how to sleuth and search things out and find things. And so that part was good. It was really training. I think the training was great because you just tried your hardest to do whatever had to be done. And at the same time, it was fun. I mean, fashion is glamorous on some levels and not glamorous on others.
Katie (04:45):
It's probably like any job, where there are the highs and the lows and it looks good on paper sometimes, but when you're actually in the trenches… So, I'm curious because you've been in and out of different magazine titles and you did it over a large period of time. Was it 15 years?
Jennifer (05:02):
Almost 20 years...
Katie (05:04):
Almost 20 years. So, you've really seen the evolution of print to digital. And over those 15 or 20 years, because I've been reading these magazines, I know that they still do stories like “Age Appropriate Dressing” or “What Looks Good at 20, 30, 40, 50.” Have you seen that be a consistent theme? Or have rules for dressing changed?
Jennifer (05:25):
I think Harper's Bazaar, still does sort of at every age, for twenties, and thirties, forties and fifties, sixties and seventies. But I do think fashion has changed a lot. I think there aren't any...the dictums that used to exist: oh, you can only wear white after Labor Day and you can't wear short skirts after a certain age. Not that short skirts are necessarily very in right now, but I think it's changed a lot. I think individualism is what's become more important in fashion. But I do know that a lot of women want guidance and help when getting dressed.
Katie (06:06):
And so what are some of the rules that you use for yourself, to help yourself get dressed in the morning? Do you have a set of rules?
Jennifer (06:16):
No. I don't.
Katie (06:19):
I love it.
Jennifer (06:20):
I think it's really what you feel good in and what you love. I think that there are a lot of choices out there and I think that hardest thing. For me, it's the hardest thing, but the most important thing is to define what looks good on you, what you feel good in, and sort of stick to that. Because by sort of creating a uniform of clothing options, it eliminates the excess that ends up in your wardrobe that you don't wear.
And I'm a big believer in buying less and buying better. So, you have a succinct, edited wardrobe that really works for you, especially in these times. I mean, I'm sure we were all, at the beginning, I think we were all wearing the same shirt and tee shirt and jeans for many days in a row. And I think things are evolving with the pandemic, but I think we've also realized that most of us have a lot of stuff in our closets that we don't wear. And we don't need, or really miss.
Katie (07:23):
I totally agree. I feel that way about shoes. My early shelter-in-place was slippers. And my second half of shelter-in-place was Birkenstocks. And I feel like my shoes miss me. They're lonely sitting there in my closet. Unloved. I love the fact that you describe your own wardrobe and your own style as being edited and having a uniform. Because I'm so envious of that ethos because I just don't have the discipline. I love the idea of having a uniform, but then I find myself like a magpie drawn to shiny things. And I'm always buying things that are kind of all over the place. So, walk me through a capsule wardrobe. If I could get a little bit more disciplined, what or how should I be thinking about this?
Jennifer (08:09):
Well, I like to think of an edited wardrobe as perfect...what you would take on vacation. But not what you would take on vacation to, say, Capri, for a week. But if you were going on a vacation where you were either, if you are a mom, a stay-at-home mom, and you're taking your kids with you. Or you're going for work, or if you're a businesswoman. And so your trip has to be what is representative of your daily life. What would you pack in a suitcase if you could take 12 pieces? Because you'd want to represent yourself in your best way. I feel like that's how we all are when we travel. You want to look your best and wear the clothes you love the most. So, if you think of an edited wardrobe as what you're packing for a vacation, I think that's where you sort of come up with a good guideline to what you like most. And what you go to again and again.
Katie (09:14):
And do you find that for yourself that your style has changed over the years? And can I ask you, Jennifer, quickly: how old are you?
Jennifer (09:21):
I am 52.
Katie (09:22):
You're 52, and how does it feel to have me ask you that question and say your age?
Jennifer (09:27):
You know, I don't mind. I think when I turned 50, I had started a year after I had started doing my site, The Flair Index, and I just find it amazing that women don't want to own up to their age. And I find that once you hit 50, the great thing is at least for myself, I really don't care what people think. Which I think is really hard. I think women are always looking for...I can't think of the word...people to sort of agree with them and, and needing some...
Katie (10:09):
External validation.
Jennifer (10:11):
Yeah, exactly. Validation, what I was looking for. And I felt like when I hit 50, I didn't need it. And I felt very comfortable in my own skin and making my own choices.
Katie (10:24):
It's liberating...
Jennifer (10:24):
Right. And if they don't, I don't care. But I also wish that more women be honest about their age. Because I also think a lot of women in their fifties, I mean, I'm sorry, like Julianne Moore, she's 60 now. They're amazing women who are older. And I think we don't give ourselves the benefit of the doubt by being honest and saying how old we are.
Katie (10:47):
Right. It seems to be a strange transition age for a lot of people because there's a lot of, you know, it gets a lot of bad press. People seem to feel like 50, all of a sudden you're in the AARP and you're close to retirement and people get anxious. And so I think it's a strange time for women where they are not quite still young, but they're not yet old. I feel like perhaps that's one of the reasons why people are reluctant to say their age when they hit this magic number. But I, like you, I embrace being 50. I threw myself a big, huge party, invited all of my closest girlfriends. The women in my life who add so much sparkle to it and just made it a big rose drinking luncheon with all the women I loved. I definitely have embraced this age. So, I love hearing that you're on the same bandwagon.
So, has your fashion changed though, now that you're 50 from when you were earlier? Does it change because you're no longer working at a magazine and you're working from home? Walk us through your own evolution.
Jennifer (11:51):
Some things have stayed the same and some things have changed. All of the heels, all the Manolo Blahniks I used to wear, I don't anymore. And I recently in the last year, downsized and moved to the city. I had kept all these pieces of clothing that I no longer wear, like three- and four-inch-heels, and got rid of those.
Katie (12:18):
Was this the closet clean-out that you've been documenting on Instagram?
Jennifer (12:22):
Yes. And I really let go, you know, I thought I didn't have…I’m pretty good at editing things and I don't get very sentimental about a lot of things, so I don't have a problem letting go. But when I moved, I realized I really hadn't let go of a lot of things also because it's not easy. It takes work, it takes effort. But I think my style on some levels, my style has been the same. I've always loved button-down shirts. I like very tailored pieces. I always have. So, I would say certain things, the general idea of what I like has never really changed, but it's the pieces change and definitely no more heels. And also with the pandemic, I don't see where anyone's really wearing heels that much anymore, anywhere.
Katie (13:13):
What's the future of fashion going to be? Because I feel like cocktail dresses, tight jeans, you know, do we need these? What do you think is what it's going to, how are we getting dressed in the future? Whip out your crystal ball, Jennifer.
Jennifer (13:27):
I've been thinking about it a lot. One thing that's very sad. On my site, I like to promote women-run businesses, mostly in the fashion and beauty arena because that's what I know and love. And I think it's going to be a very hard time for a lot of fashion businesses. I also think there's too much stuff out in the world and I've long thought this, which also goes into my ethos of "Buying Less and Buying Better." But I think what we'll want going forward: we're going to start wanting to get dressed on some level and I think what's going to matter most are the pieces that you really have an emotional attachment to. I think that you're going to want to put on things that feel good on your body. So, material-wise, to me, that's, you know, nice cottons in the winter, it's nice wool or cashmere sweater. Silk, I feel like a slip dress is going to become, not ubiquitous again, but I think it's not going away. And that's instead of a cocktail dress, she'll put on a silk slip skirt, a skirt, or a dress, throw a sweater over it. You can wear flat boots with it.
Katie (14:38):
It's elegant but lounge-y. It's like dressy pajamas almost.
Jennifer (14:43):
Yeah. And then the emotional aspect, I think you're going to want a couple of things that really speak to you emotionally. Whether it's a piece of jewelry or an accessory, or one elaborate splurge sweater. Something like that you'll want to wear again and again.
Katie (15:07):
What are touchstones for you and your wardrobe? Because you've talked about having an emotional connection to accessories or clothing. What would be your, you know, a go-to piece that you feel amazing in every time?
Jennifer (15:20):
So, I'm thinking towards fall. So for me, I have a couple of slip dresses that are satin. I love them. It's too hot to wear them right now, frankly, but I look forward to wearing those with a sweater.
Katie (15:35):
And who makes those?
Jennifer (15:35):
I have them from various brands. I have one from a slip skirt from Vince, and I have a dress from Organic by John Patrick. He has a little store in East Hampton and actually in Marfa, Texas. And I have an old one. I keep my clothes called Khaite. K-H-A-I-T-E. That's a few years old and also, I'm splurging on a cashmere sweater.
Katie (16:13):
Who makes the best yummiest sweaters?
Jennifer (16:16):
Well, that's a good question. Actually, Khaite has become very popular. They did a sweater that I'm forgetting her name wore last year. They have very nice sweaters. There's a company called Allude. A-L-L-U-D-E. That it's sort of a moderately expensive brand that I really like that makes nice ones. At the same time, the sweaters, the cashmere sweaters that I wear on a daily basis in the winter are from Uniqlo. I have a crew neck in black and a crew neck in Navy, and I wear them out.
Katie (16:50):
I love that. I love that because that's such a great brand and that it's got that whole high, low thing, where you can mix. It's very simple and minimal, so you can take them and mix them in with other things in your wardrobe. I find that my entire family dresses from Uniqlo. My boys run around in their puffer jackets. I also use their sweaters as well. So, I love to hear you give them…
Jennifer (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest. I don't like fast fashion. But what I don't have a problem with... I don't like fast fashion when it's trendy, because I feel like people buy it on a whim and then they let it go. And that's wasteful. But for brands like Uniqlo, that make basics that you can go to like you said. I have one of their down vests that I actually run in in the winter and another down vest, they're great layering pieces. They don't go out of style. So for that, I am all for saving money in those areas. And if you can get a lot of use out of them.
Katie (17:52):
Absolutely. Another Uniqlo item that I wear all the time, I'm forgetting the name of them. I think they are Heat Tech turtlenecks, and they're very skinny and shrunken. And I actually wear a black one under some of my summer dresses. I wear them with black tights and I wear them with black booties and then a dress that gets worn in the summer, can be worn through the colder months of fall and into spring. So, I love that. I actually stole that idea from Jessie Loffler Randall of Loffler Randall shoes. She posted on her Instagram and I thought, "I'm all over that." It was like a $9 turtleneck. And it allows me to extend the life of my wardrobe into a different season.
Jennifer (18:35):
Yeah. I actually wear their AIRism tanks under things that are really great.
Katie (18:40):
Ooh, I'll check that out next.
So, walk us through your closet clean-out. For people who are listening and are thinking, "I didn't clean one single closet during COVID and I'm inspired to get in action. I want an edited wardrobe." How do they get going? What are your know, three steps that they should be taking to begin this closet cleanout?
Jennifer (19:01):
So I think it's really...if you go on my site, what I talk about is instead of going and making a pile of "Yes. No. Maybes," it's really spending time to think about what you wear. And I actually start women and my clients with making lists. I love lists. They're really taking time and thinking about things.
So, one is to do a packing list. As I said, if you're going on a vacation that sort of represents your lifestyle. So, you know, one for fall/winter, one for spring/summer. I like people to write down their splurges, their five biggest splurges in their closet. And also, you know, on a scale of 1-5, how much do they use them? Did they use them at all? Was it a mistake? Also, the things that they go to all the time, so the things that they rely on. So, like a two-week diary of your clothing. Which right now doesn't work so much because I think people's wardrobes they're not going through the clothes in their closet as much.
Katie (20:05):
It's all yoga pants, all the time.
Jennifer (20:06):
Yeah. And also like the things like your lazy go-to. So, the things that you have in your closet that you're like, "Oh, I really need to replace this.” Or, “I guess I'll put this on because I need to put something on." You should replace those. You should replace them, you should make a list of things you've always wanted. What I found by really editing down my closet, and I sold a lot of things on The RealReal, I gave things away. I sold some things on ThreadUp, which you don't really make a lot of money on, but they're going somewhere. I'm a zero-waste clean-up. Nothing should ever be in the garbage that's a clothing item. There's a place where also get a box and recycle even like one pair-less sock.
Katie (21:01):
That's amazing. I have hundreds of pair-less socks.
Jennifer (21:06):
I had money and means to actually get things that I had wanted for a long time. And I think a lot of us have things that we think you want. And they've been on your wishlist for ages. And we all get sidetracked. It's not hard. We're all on Instagram, looking at things constantly. “Oh, look what she's wearing. Oh my God, I think I need that.” And we end up spending money in places that we regret.
Katie (21:36):
Absolutely.
Jennifer (21:36):
If it's $50 here and $75 there, you'd be surprised how quickly that adds up to $500.
Katie (21:42):
Real money. Real money.
Jennifer (21:44):
Real money. So, I think it's really sort of like getting track on where you're spending your money. And also looking at what you have and what you love and what you don't love it. And really letting things go if you're keeping things for sentimental reasons. Fine, keep a box of sentimental clothes. I'm not for throwing everything out and living with 10 things. I mean, I think it would be great if you could, but it's hard. But I think a lot of us hold on to too many things for no reason.
Katie (22:17):
Absolutely. Did you make any pandemic purchases that have helped you through this time? I mean, obviously, we've all been buying masks, but was there anything else that you added to your wardrobe?
Jennifer (22:29):
Well, you know, it's funny in the beginning I bought, I don't really wear sweatpants, so I bought a pair of sweatpants and that was actually a mistake because I don't wear sweatpants. I have…what have I bought? I bought a slip dress and I bought a couple of pairs of shorts. I like tailored shorts and I really liked them because I like tailoring. I don't love summer dresses. Or like, a sort of a Bermuda short and I think they've gotten more modern. So, I like to wear those with a button-down shirt. But I've really been watching and waiting. Because fall clothes are so much more expensive than summer clothes. I want a couple of amazing cashmere sweaters and one really nice blazer. And that's where my money's going to go.
Katie (23:22):
Smart to put it where you're really coveting those items. I have a question for you. I saw that Yves Saint Laurent recently named a filmmaker, John Waters of Hairspray to be the face of his men's line. I think that information came out this week. And Waters is 74.
Jennifer Alfano (23:37):
I love that.
Katie (23:37):
I know! I love it too. And he's got so much style and so much charisma. Can you think of an analogous— am I even saying that word correctly? But can you think of a similar example for women? Would you find a woman who is 74 being the face of a big brand?
Jennifer (23:55):
I mean, I think, you know, who did it? Well, a couple of people have done it. When Phoebe Philo was at Céline she put Joan Didion in her ads, which was amazing. And Joan is, I don't even know how, I mean, I love her writing. I don't know how old she is. But lately, I know Charlotte Rampling and Lauren Hutton are still in ads for major brands. Bottega I think. Maybe it is Loewe that Charlotte Rampling is in. And she was really big in the Seventies. I do think fashion is changing slowly. And their perception and using older women, they get it. I think it's also amazing, I'm looking on Instagram because I actually think it's the older women have a lot of followers and I think it's because younger women also like looking at them and thinking, "Oh, I can be 60 and still wear cool clothes and still feel good about myself." And it's something they're like aspire to because I think without that, everybody just thinks, "Oh, I'm 50. Oh, it doesn't matter anymore." But that's not true. There are plenty of women who are older who have kickass style. And when you see them, I think it makes everybody feel good.
Katie (25:09):
Absolutely. I love following Maye Musk on Instagram. She's the face of Cover Girl. Now I think she's got to be 74. And she's incredible. And she just glams her way across the globe, or back when people traveled across the globe. But she has a lot of style and is not letting her age slow her down at all.
Jennifer, you've shared so many wonderful tips. I am going to put some of your closet clean-out into action. I love the zero waste closet. I'm going to include some of the resources that you shared in the show notes. So, if people are looking to donate their old clothes, or learn how to sell them online, you can check the show notes for that information. Before we start to wrap up, I just want to ask is there another product or resource either for "Buy Better, Buy Less" or your closet cleanup that you want to share with the audience?
Jennifer (26:03):
The only thing I would say is, there isn't a lot out there. If you follow me, I'm going to start actually doing more videos starting in September about editing and moving forward. Because I think with the pandemic, it’s going nowhere, and I think it's more important that really sort of get a grasp of getting dressed. And if women also want help, they can go on my site. There's a link on the Wardrobe Project where I can offer personalized services to help women do this on their own
Katie (26:40):
Jennifer's videos on editing her closet are so soothing to watch. I literally watched them during shelter-in-place. I could not get off my sofa to clean my own closet, but I watched her and learned so much and found them to be just so calming. So, I highly recommend those. Jennifer, where can listeners find your website?
Jennifer (27:04):
They can go to The Flair Index. Its F-L-A-I-R index. And they can go to @theflairindex on Instagram, which is where my videos sit.
Katie (27:17):
Okay. And my last question, before we part, what is the one product that you're coveting? I know that you had mentioned that you have your eyes on a few things. What are you looking to purchase next?
Jennifer (27:32):
We're also speaking of cashmere sweaters, I found a Céline gray, I’m a sucker for gray cashmere. It's a gray cashmere v-neck. It couldn't be more classic. It couldn't be more expensive. I know I will have it. My daughter wears my husband's. It's 40 years old. So, I'm sure that her daughter's going to be wearing this one or son someday.
Katie (27:57):
It's a future heirloom and sounds so cozy.
Jennifer (27:59):
And I'm gonna wear it to death anyway.
Katie (28:01):
I love it. I can't wait to see you in it. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today.
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. Thanks for listening. And if you enjoy the show and you have amazing women in your life, and of course you do, because you did not make it to 50 without fabulous female friends, please spread the word. You can also help us grow by heading to iTunes, to subscribe, rate, and leave a review and visit us@wwwdotacertainagepod.com for show notes and bonus content special. Thanks to Michael Mann, Sandy productions, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time. And until then: age boldly beauties.