How to Brighten, Firm and Hydrate for Glowy Midlife Skin with Dermatologist Dr. Jessica Wu
Show Snapshot:
The glow show! Cosmetic dermatologist Dr. Jessica Wu helps us up our glow with tips for tackling sunspots, fine lines and wrinkles, plus, which skin care procedures and products are worth your time and money. Bonus! Dr. Wu, the author of the book, “Feed Your Face: Younger, Smoother Skin and a Beautiful Body in 28 Delicious Days,” helps us stock our grocery cart with skincare superheroes. We also talk desert island beauty musts, the enduring appeal of Botox, when to use over-the-counter products, and when it’s time to head to the doctor for a peel or laser.
Show Links:
Follow Dr. Wu
Dr. Wu’s Book: Feed Your Face: Younger, Smoother Skin and a Beautiful Body in 28 Delicious Days
Quotable:
Menopausal skin is especially vulnerable to sun damage because our skin gets thinner as the estrogen declines. Your skin gets 1% thinner and loses 2% collagen each year after menopause. We've got to do our best to hang on to that collagen, because the thicker we can keep our skin, the more defense we have against sun damage.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to a certain age a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host Katie Fogarty beauties a couple of years ago when I was getting started as a midlife podcaster I bought a book called jest when you're comfortable in your skin, it starts to say the title totally cracked me up. And I think it captures the duality of midlife, we are more confident and clear about what's what. But we also wonder why our eyes don't work without readers and how on earth we suddenly overnight have what marketers call mature skin. You know, we're age positive on the show, but we also positively do not want to fall apart and healthy glowy skin is a big part of looking and feeling our best. So I have great news. I am joined today by cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Jessica Wu, who's going to help us get our glow on and give us the download on popular cosmetic procedures, skincare products that are worth your time and money and the lifestyle and nutrition choices that make a major impact on your skin. And bonus. Dr. Wu is going to be answering questions that were submitted by you a certain age listeners. Dr. Wu is a graduate of Harvard Med School. She teaches at the University of Southern California. She is a frequent media expert and as the author of the book Feed Your Face, younger, smoother skin and a beautiful body and 28 Delicious days. I am thrilled she is here to talk all things healthy, radiant skin. Welcome Dr. Wu. Thank you, Katie. It's
Dr. Jessica Wu 1:37
a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Katie Fogarty 1:39
I am really excited. We've done a couple of shows on midlife skin before they perform really well. The downloads are great because people really want this information. Your expertise covers so many areas cosmetic dermatology, clinical dermatology, the role of nutrition in skin health, and I want to get into everything. But I want to start with some stage setting your client base is women across the age spectrum, but you really do have a lot of patients in their 40s and 50s. What's the number one reason midlife women come to you?
Dr. Jessica Wu 2:13
Well, that's absolutely true about who my patient base is we talk about in medicine that our patients mirror who we are and many of my patients have been with me since I started my practice in my early 30s. And now I'm 55 And so we've weathered or enjoyed this journey together. And I would say the number one thing that patients tell me is that they say Doctor, will I look in the mirror I don't recognize myself, I feel young and vibrant and energetic on the inside. I still have so much that I want to do, but I don't recognize myself What can I do to look like myself and actually, very few people tell me they want to look like some some do but very few say I want to look like a celebrity or I want to look younger or wipe out the wrinkles it's more I want to look refreshed I feel like I'm looking tired and people asked me why are you angry? So these are the more common questions and then we go into skincare we talk about what we can do in the office and I'm a big promote proponent of lifestyle choices as well. So diet let's talk about sleep and exercise and how everything combines to help you look and feel your best
Katie Fogarty 3:40
Yeah, I totally resonate with what you're saying how we want to look in the mirror and we want to look like ourselves but really look like ourselves after we've gotten eight hours of sleep. And and we know how hard that is to do in midlife and you know sometimes we do feel like you know what's looking back in us in the mirror looks like a little rundown or tired. I'm curious we're kind of we're recording in the fall we're coming out of the sunny summer days. One of the things that we get when we are out in the sun enjoying you know, vitamin D and outdoor activities. We see sunspots, we see age spots, one of my listeners said what can we do about these and I'm curious, is there something that you recommend that's most effective? Or do you make different recommendations for in office? And you know, over the counter remedies for agent sunspots?
Dr. Jessica Wu 4:36
Yes, it's a whole spectrum depending on your skin type and the level of discoloration or sun damage there is and and just to back up 100% This time of year is when we're seeing the what I call the souvenirs of summer spent outdoors.
Speaker 1 4:57
I love that about that. Right. I love that. You know,
Katie Fogarty 5:02
that's a good reframe.
Dr. Jessica Wu 5:03
Yeah, people feel so guilty about that. Sometimes they're ashamed to show me this. I'm already apologized to me they say I'm sorry, doctor why these spots. I say no don't apologize for having fun with your family with your friends. But let's minimize the damage. Now let's take care of it. And menopausal skin is especially vulnerable to sun damage because our skin gets thinner as the estrogen declines. Your skin gets 1% thinner and loses 2% Collagen each year after menopause. So we've got to do our best to hang on to that collagen, because the thicker we can keep our skin the more defense we have against the sun damage. Now, in terms of what can you do today to help your skin if you have spots, I would say, number one is to use a retinoid and people talk about retinal retinoid kind of they kind of lump it all together. But just just a quick dermatology lesson for everybody who's confused and overwhelmed because I know it can be retinoids are the class of skin creams that are related to vitamin A. So that would include your over the counter as well as your prescription strength. And within that category of retinoids. If you have sensitive skin or if you're a retinoid beginner, I would say start with an over the counter retinol there are a lot of really good drugstore brands these days they've become affordable, but be very careful, make sure whatever retinoid you get, it's in an opaque package and preferably in an airless pump, because that keeps it fresh molecules very sensitive to heat and light. So if it comes in a jar may not be as effective. So that would be my number one suggestion and for those who've used retinal already asked her dermatologist about a prescription retinoid that helps to push off the top layers of sun damaged skin revealing fresher skin underneath and then if that's not enough, then come to come to the office and we can talk about lasers such as IPL, intense pulse light is very, very common. Especially if you have a more fair skin tones. For those of us who have a richer, more deep complexion, then we start talking about light or medium strength chemical peel. So it's a spectrum of treatments.
Katie Fogarty 7:47
Okay, that's so terrific to know. And you talked about the efficacy and having an opaque bottle How long would we expect an over the counter drugstore retinoid to remain fresh? And if we are going through the heavier lasers or chemical peels, you know, what kind of commitment we're talking about, is this annually? Is it twice a year? What is the timeframe.
Dr. Jessica Wu 8:11
So for an over the counter product, many of the larger more reputable brands will stamp a Best Buy date or expiration date which is typically nine to 12 months, a prescription cream will be much more specific, I'll have the month end date of expiration not to say that if you hit that date, throw out your expensive cream, but it starts to lose its efficacy gradually after that date. In terms of the in office treatments, typically for an IPL type of treatment, the different brands Mecca, Clear and Brilliant. It's typically a series of maybe three to five once a month, and then we repeat that yearly. So it's often a winter time project. Chemical peels depends on how deep the peel is and the tolerance of your skin. So if you have a very sensitive skin, we might do a light to medium strength where you're a little flaky for a few days. And we do that every other month for example and have you use the the at home creams in between. If you have a lot of sun damage. If you also have some fine lines that you want to improve or some scars or pores, then we might do a deeper what's called a TC a or try chloro acetic acid peel that's once a year because that's the longer recovery time could be eight to 10 days and a lot of people are interested in pills but they're scared and so thought it's really important that you prep with one Have a either over the counter or prescription cream prior to the peel and talk to your doctor about your lifestyle. If you like to hike and you take the kids to the park and you're going to be in the sun, the deeper peels are maybe not for you. So many
Katie Fogarty 10:17
great options. I love how you gave us sort of a buffet of choices based on our activity outdoors and our sort of appetite for recovery. We're heading into a quick break. But when we come back, I want to pick up what you said about fine lines and wrinkles. We'll be back from the break in just a minute. Dr. Wu were back from the break when we headed into it, you gave us a number of choices that really can help people across sort of a range of complexions and sort of appetites for for doing the work and for recovery based on you know where they are in terms of age and sunspot exposure. You also mentioned that one of these, I think it was a laser that can help address fine lines. That was another question that a number of listeners sort of submitted what can we do about fine lines and wrinkles? And also what can we do about marionette lines which I had never heard that phrase before and I had to google it and I was like oh, you know I may I may be looking at those which are sort of the lines around the mouth.
Dr. Jessica Wu 11:16
Yes, marionette lines. We need to think of a more flattering lines. crow's feet. I wonder what what mean man came okay.
Katie Fogarty 11:32
I am with you. Let's do that. Let's like exactly. I like that when people say smile lines to which I like around because I have a lot of smile lines around my eyes and I like that I you know, I'm like a happy person. I smile a lot, right?
Dr. Jessica Wu 11:46
That's right, then sometimes people say oh have these crow's feet, they're so deep. And I'll say Well, it's because you've been smiling a lot. So that's that's not a bad thing. In Asia, just a quick aside, they're not called crow's feet around the eyes. They're called fish tails because it's similar to how a fish tail fans out and in Asian culture, fish are very, very lucky and bring good fortune and I thought of very positively so we need to think of
Katie Fogarty 12:14
I love it. Thank you. That's that's that's wonderful. I'm taking that on.
Dr. Jessica Wu 12:20
Now in terms of how to soften these smile crinkles or smile lines retinoids again, not only do they help with pigmentation and but they are the most studied topical products in terms of helping to hang on to our college and because the reason that we start to see fine lines we start to see loss of elasticity is the thinning of the skin. So think about how a thin piece of linen, wrinkles and crinkles more easily than a thick piece of velvet. What we're trying to do is to help maintain the thickness of our skin as as it moves from velvet to linen. So retinoids are number one and typically I'll have patients use a retinoid in the evening. A big myth by the way is that retinoids thin the skin many patients are fearful of retinoids because someone's told them that thins the skin will it does thin the top layers of dead skin but it actually thickens the deeper levels of the living skin the collagen the elastic tissue so don't be afraid to use retinoids just tread carefully and listen to your skin if it starts to get a little pink glow flaky back off. And then a daytime a wonderful way to pair your creams is to use retinoid in the evening and in the daytime use an antioxidant for example of vitamin C serum in the morning that helps to fight the environmental pollution and also helps to support your skin's collagen Vitamin C is really really important for your skin's collagen skin cannot make collagen without vitamin C so that's why like vitamin C in the morning and by the way, everyone should be having vitamin C at least once or twice in your food every single day.
Katie Fogarty 14:20
This is such a great way to think about this because I am always wondering when to use these serums you know I'm not actually a big orange juice in the morning person but if I were you know it's like your vitamin C for your skin your vitamin C with your orange juice and in your diet. I love the way that you talked about our skin as sort of velvet to Lennon because I like both fabrics and so I I am open to the idea of you know considering my skin to be both. You talked about the importance of collagen in terms of you know perhaps keeping our skin more velvety as you know while we kind of transition to linen. How do we get collagen is this I know it disappears as we age natural labor can we get it back with supplements? Can we get it back with powders? Can we get it back with food?
Dr. Jessica Wu 15:07
To an extent Yes. And it's it's tough because you're college and follows the, the level of estrogen you have. So as estrogen declines, so will your college and decline and the whole topic of estrogen replacement estrogen creams is better discussed by gynecologist or endocrinologist. But aside from that there, yes, there are ways that we can hang on and even boosts the college and we have. One is the topicals. We talked about the vitamin C, the retinoids. Another one that I really, that I really like to recommend to patients who are sensitive is an ingredient called bag coochie, all which some called plant retinol. And that's found in a number of of the counter products studies have shown results about equivalent to a pharmaceutical retinol, when when applied to the skin when they measure fine lines and texture and elasticity. So so those are ingredients to look for in terms of treatments. There are certain types of in office treatments, lasers and chemical peels, and one of my favorites specifically for stimulating collagen is micro needling, there are different levels of micro needling, you can purchase them at Sephora, some facialists do it but I'm talking about medical microneedling that goes to a certain depth in your skin that stimulates the living, college and making cells what we call the fibroblasts. And this sort of treatment that we do in the office, you come in 30 minutes of numbing the treatment takes about 20 or 30 minutes, that has been shown to boost collagen in your skin. Whether you have fine lines or pores, or scars, they old acne scars. In fact, micro needling was first used in France decades ago specifically to treat acne scars, and they started to use it on surgical scars. And when you look at a skin biopsy of a wrinkle, it looks exactly like a scar, where there's disorganization of the college instead of a nice, thick, healthy plump College and the college and broken up it's irregular. And so some very smart dermatologist that that's working to help smooth out scars, maybe it could help with fine lines and pores and guess what it does. And so that's one of my favorite go to in office treatments, about two to four days of recovery. And the beauty is that we can treat people of all skin tones and types from very fair skin. Someone for example, like Nicole Kidman to someone who has a more rich complexion so so a lot of people can benefit from it and it can be done very safely.
Katie Fogarty 18:20
Absolutely. And I will raise my hand here and say that I have done micro needling and I use a numbing cream. So it's not, you know, extremely painful. Although you know, it's you feel it. And I know that it takes a few months for it to kind of produce its results. I was happy with it. You mentioned back which I'm probably mispronouncing This is it bakuchiol. But that
Dr. Jessica Wu 18:45
cuccia boy, a que UCHIOL Yes,
Katie Fogarty 18:51
bakuchiol. And we had a guest on the podcast probably several years ago now can Kendra Butler Smith, who founded the company out in beauty, her products are really delightful, wonderful plant based. And she uses that and one of her face masks and you know, some of her serum. So I really enjoyed using those products as well. So I'm just throwing that out there because it's you know, this is firsthand experience. But you know, obviously we're hearing from Dr. Wu has so much expertise in this. I want it I know we're wrapping up on our time we got a little bit. We had some hiccups as we got started with our recording and we have to send you off soon to do your patient work. But I would love to hear from you about skin friendly foods before we head into our speed round.
Dr. Jessica Wu 19:35
Yes, so when we talk about what we can do to strengthen our skin, it's about boosting the collagen boosting the elastic and those molecules are proteins. So we want to think in general about making sure we're getting enough protein in our diet. When you wake up your first meal should have 30 grams of protein, each meal should have at least 30 grams of protein. And not just for skin, but for your general muscle health throughout your body. And by the way, the more the more toned your muscles are, the better the skin on your body will look your arms, your legs, your knees, so So really important, especially as women that we think about maintaining our muscle mass, because that'll help our appearance as well. And aside from protein in general, if we think about what is necessary for college and synthesis, we talk about a medicine dermatology, we talk about cofactors that are essential to help our bodies build collagen and those include vitamin C and copper. So when you think about vitamin C, yes, citrus fruit. Orange juice actually is high in sugar and sugar can be inflammatory so, so probably steer away from orange juice as a source of vitamin C, especially if you have eczema or acne breakouts or rosacea. You can find citrus in some vegetables. In fact, tomatoes are high in vitamin C, and other fruits that are low in sugar. Kiwi fruit is lower in sugar and very high in vitamin C. So So I think those are good choices. Red peppers as well red and yellow peppers also have decent amount of vitamin C if you're trying to stay away from sugar for your skin. In terms of copper, those are some more unusual foods. Oysters actually are the highest sources of copper. I'm personally not a huge oyster fan. But you can also get copper and other shellfish and whole grains, kidney beans, and organ meats if if you have a taste for kidneys and liver, dark leafy greens as well. So those those are good sources of copper. And in terms of how to eat you think about again, we want to hang on to a college and so things that will break down College and our spikes in blood sugar, so you want to try to keep that blood sugar stable. Studies have also shown that eating small protein containing meals throughout the day to keep that blood sugar stable also help with hot flashes. So you'll be helping the the college in your skin as well as potentially some of the other side effects of menopause. So, so small frequent meals each meal containing protein and it should always have more protein compared to your starchy carbohydrate. So good breakfast might be some, some fruit, some eggs rather than a muffin, or cereal for example,
Katie Fogarty 23:12
so many great tips. I love all the recommendations you made. I adore oysters so that was fun to hear. Jessica this has been such a treat we're moving into our speed round I could talk to you forever because there's You are just an incredible source of information. I hope all of our listeners will go follow Dr. Jessica woo over on Instagram, she'll share her handle when we're done. She offers so much wonderful information, great videos, just a lot of skincare smarts that you're not going to want to miss. But we're going to close with our speed round. This is just very quick one to two word answers. So we can learn a little bit more before we have to say goodbye. Are you ready? Yes. Okay, hot or cold water to wash your face. Cold? Yes, your no tea bags to de puff under eye circles. Yes. Is guasha effective? Maybe Maybe I love it. It feels so good. I always ask this question when I have somebody on because I really adore it. Okay. And in office treatment you swear by Botox, your desert island beauty product sunscreen. worth investing in this it's worth a splurge. retinoid feel free to buy this budget friendly item at the drugstore. cleanser. Best Food to fuel glowing skin.
Dr. Jessica Wu 24:34
Oh there are so many. I'm thinking water
Katie Fogarty 24:36
that pops in my mind. I don't know if that pops in yours. It's not really a fluid though.
Dr. Jessica Wu 24:41
I have to think of a food if if I have to limit to one food.
Katie Fogarty 24:46
Well, how about something that's always in your grocery cart. Will that make it easier? Yes, salmon. Ooh, okay, that works for me too. This lifestyle choice will keep your skin radiant.
Dr. Jessica Wu 25:00
Avoid straws.
Katie Fogarty 25:01
Ooh, whoo. Okay, that is that is an interesting one. I'm gonna I'm gonna ponder that one over. Finally, your one word answer to this question as I age. I feel
Dr. Jessica Wu 25:12
fearless. Nice.
Katie Fogarty 25:15
Dr. Woo, this has been terrific. I so appreciate your time. We've covered so much information, you know, listeners can employ these more luminous skin. I want them to keep following you because you share so much terrific content online. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners keep following you and learn more about your work?
Dr. Jessica Wu 25:34
Thank you so much, Katie. listeners can find me@drjessicaw.com at Dr. Jessica Wu on Instagram.
Katie Fogarty 25:48
Thank you Jessica. This wraps a certain age a show for women or aging without apology before I say goodbye a quick favor. I would love it. If you could take five minutes to write an apple podcast review. You can share something you learned on today's show or on a previous episode. Or simply share why you tune in and make a certain age pod part of your week. Apple podcast reviews help the show grow. Special thanks to Michael Mann CME who composed and produced our theme music See you next time and until then age boldly beauties.