Jenn Sherman to Midlife Women: Stop Training Like You're 30
Show Snapshot:
Midlife hits and suddenly the fitness strategies that carried you through your 30s start quiet quitting on you. Want to shake up your fitness and your life? Meet Jenn Sherman—hired by Peloton at 45 after years as a stay-at-home mom, now 57 and rewriting the rules for how women train. Her “Back Nine Era” playbook is exactly what your body has been waiting for. As Jenn says, "I'm training so I can pick up my grandkids in 10 years." Tune in for functional fitness secrets, five habits that build strength for life, and a mega jolt of midlife mojo. Let's go, beauties.
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Quotable:
"The goal for women our age is longevity and capacity — training in a way that's going to give us the strongest, healthiest life we can have."
Transcript:
Jenn Sherman0:00
The fitness industry still talks to women in midlife like we're trying to look the way we did at 30. And that's not what's happening anymore, right? That's not the goal anymore. The goal for women our age, Katie, is longevity and capacity and being able to train in a way that's going to end up giving us the strongest, healthiest life we can have. The way I'm training now, Katie, is so I can pick up my grandkids in 10 years. The way I'm training now is so I can get up off the floor without assistance when I'm in my mid-60s.
Katie Fogarty0:40
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty. Beauties, buckle up. We are welcoming a powerhouse today. And here's a little backstory. Our guest took her first spin class in her early 40s. At 45, she joined Team Peloton as Peloton's very first cycling instructor. Before that, she was a stay-at-home mom in New Jersey with no fitness empire, no platform, and no master plan. Now today, at 57, Jenn Sherman is a fitness household name, and she is building one of the most important platforms and leading an incredible conversation that is happening for women in fitness today. Here's why you need to hear this. If your body, your brain, or your sense of self feels like it's shifting in ways that nobody warned you about, Jenn is here to tell you that's not the end of the story. Your story is shifting into a new gear. Jenn calls it the Back Nine Era. And if you want to feel excited, energized, and lit up about what's next, stick around. We are talking late-life pivots, imposter syndrome, the hormonal and cognitive shifts nobody prepares us for, how to train for longevity, and the five habits that can truly change how you feel in this season of life. Jenn is funny. She is so fierce, and she will absolutely hype you up while also telling you the truth about what it takes to thrive. I am ready for this one. Welcome to A Certain Age, Jenn.
Jenn Sherman2:15
That was some intro, Katie. Thank you.
Katie Fogarty2:19
Well, you deserve it all and more. I've loved following your career, learning about you, and prepping for the show, spending time on your Instagram. I know people are going to be excited, because I was so excited when I hung out with you socially, and I'm really thrilled to be hanging out with you behind the mic right now on A Certain Age podcast. We love reinvention stories, and you have a unique one. I want to hear: what prompted you to take that first spin class, and how did you go from student to Peloton's very first cycling instructor?
Jenn Sherman2:48
Wow, let's throw it back to my very first spin class. I owe that to a dear friend of mine, Barbara Albert, who will probably listen to this podcast. She was the one that dragged me to my very first spin class many, many, many years ago. I was going through a rough time. I had just lost my father, and it was her that said to me, "You've never done a spin class, and you need to come with me. I think you're going to love the kind of energy that is in the room at a spin class. Just come to one." And I was like, "Fine. You know what? I'm up to try anything." I was always someone who worked out — movement and fitness was always important to me — but I had just never been to a spin class before. We're going back, let's call it 15-plus years now, right? So she took me to my very first class, and I was instantly hooked. I didn't have to go back two or three or four times to decide if I loved what I had just done. I was one and done. And that might have been, on that particular day, the combination of the instructor and maybe the music. Even though it was new to me and I probably didn't feel like any kind of expert at getting through the class, I was so taken by it. My first class turned into an addiction of sorts — a good addiction — something that I was doing so many times a week. Katie, it was crazy. I had days where I did double classes. I was riding, let's call it, five days a week. It became my workout of choice. It just was so good for me mentally and physically, and I fell deep into it. You know? It became my thing. And after riding as just a participant in the class for about a year, after about a year of riding pretty regularly — like I just mentioned, five days a week, sometimes taking doubles in a day — I was like, "I think I would be really good at this." And that's not something that I said to myself often in my lifetime. I was like, "I think that I might be able to get certified and be really good at this." And I went to the owner
Katie Fogarty4:59
Of the studio —
Jenn Sherman4:59
Of the studio where I was riding — a local studio in New Jersey. I'm a suburban mom at that point with two young kids. So I was riding at a studio five minutes from where I lived, and I was there all the time. And I said to the owners, I let them know that I was thinking about possibly getting certified. And they were so excited. They said, "Let us get you certified." And that's exactly how it all began. I got spin-certified, and then I started teaching in that very same studio where I was doing all of those classes. And that's how it all began — local, small, right here in New Jersey, suburbia. My classes were quite popular — like, from the very first ride, I was half friends, half word of mouth. And I really started to hone in on my skills and really try to get really good at what I was doing. I wound up having this amazing following in New Jersey — sold-out classes, wait lists, and all of that. And I loved it. And it was at a perfect time in my life, Katie, because my kids were old enough that they were in school all day. I had been a stay-at-home mom, which I loved and felt so blessed that I got to do. But once the kids were off in school all day, I started to feel this pull, like I wanted to do something that was just mine. And so getting certified to teach classes was the most perfect thing, because it wasn't a nine-to-five. It gave me something that was all my own. But I wasn't behind a desk all day. I was still able to drop off the kids, pick up the kids, live my life. But that's how it all started.
Katie Fogarty6:44
And how did you move from small studio in New Jersey to Peloton? Because that also is a big leap. You moved from student to instructor, and then from studio to Peloton. Walk us through that.
Jenn Sherman6:55
I could have never imagined that part coming. So let's cut to — I'm teaching these classes in New Jersey, and they're going well. I'm teaching for my little studio. It started out like I was teaching three classes a week, then it went to four, then it went to five. I was teaching every day except for one. I was teaching six days a week — a really popular class that was always filled and hard to get into. And I was very happy doing what I was doing in New Jersey. And one day, something popped into my inbox. It was a newsletter from an online publication called Well+Good. And Well+Good was an online newsletter that talked a lot about wellness and fitness, and it was always talking about the latest opening of a studio of some kind or another. And I happened to read what I think — what I say every time I talk about this or tell this story — I think it was the very first published piece on a brand-new startup that was coming to life, called Peloton. It was a short one-page briefing of what Peloton was. It explained the concept and the idea. And at the bottom of this newsletter, there was an email address — a very generic email address. I don't even know, it was like peloton.com or whatever it was. And it said something like, "If you are interested in becoming an instructor, please email us here." It was just a one-pager where it explained the concept about this bike that you were going to be able to purchase for your home, and on the ends of the handlebars of the bike was going to be this screen where your instructor was going to be able to teach you an indoor boutique-style cycling class. Because this was back in the day when SoulCycle was blowing up and Flywheel was blowing up. You were going to be able to take a class like that in the privacy of your own home. And I was like, "Huh. This is an interesting concept." I didn't know if I thought it was something that could work, Katie, because part of what I loved so much about those cycling classes in the early days was the energy of being inside the room with everybody. Do you know what I mean? Like that closed-room energy, feeding off the energy between one another? Well, let's put that aside. I did think that the idea was genius. I just didn't know what it could really be. And so I just decided, "You know what, I'm going to answer this email address. I'm going to write a little email to — I don't know who — I don't know who I'm sending this to."
Katie Fogarty9:44
"I'm going to send it out into the void and take my chances."
Jenn Sherman9:50
That's right. It was just like — you know what? Forget it. I'm going to write an email. I don't know who I'm writing this to. And I'm going to tell whoever is on the other end of this that this sounds like a genius idea, that I would love to hear more, and if you're really hiring instructors, here is why you need to hire me. That is what I titled the email. And that email, Katie —
Katie Fogarty10:14
That's a good subject line, Jenn. That's a really good subject line: "Here's why you need to hire me."
Jenn Sherman10:21
"Here's why you need to hire me." And then I went on and on and kind of told my story in this email to whoever I was sending it to. I hit the send button, and I didn't think much about it. I actually thought I would never hear back from anybody. And within a couple of days, I got the most incredible response back from a man named John Foley, who was the founder and CEO of Peloton. This was back in — we're taking this back to 2012 now. 2012, 2013 — 2012, I sent that email. He answered me back and said, "We've gotten a ton of responses, and you are the first email that I am actually answering." There was something about what I put in that email — that lovely story — I typed it out, and I wrote it very much the way I speak. And if anyone here is listening who knows me from the bike, I was very much myself in that email. "Here's why you need to hire me. Here's why I kick ass. Here's why I'm a rock star. This is what I do. I'm a mom of two young kids, but this is my passion, and here's why I packed my room and I've got a wait list and sold-out classes, and my music is awesome." I wrote all of this in that email. Foley wrote me back, and a week after that, I drove into New York City and was having my first cup of coffee sitting across from John Foley — genius John Foley. One conversation led to another and another, which led to an audition in front of three people: him, his wife, and another one of his co-founders. And long story short, he made me an offer, and I got the job. And I was Peloton's very first instructor, which still gives me goosebumps to say it, 13 years later, and I'm still here, still doing my thing. So that's the story.
Katie Fogarty12:08
Jenn, this is such a marvelous story, and it really just speaks to so many things about what I love so much about creating this show. I feature women who throw their hat in the ring, who take a chance on themselves at a certain point in their life. They think to themselves, "Why not me?" They draw on all their experience, all the things that they've built. You had built a career where you were beloved and packing rooms, and you thought, "Why not me? Let me take a bet on myself." And they decided to bet on you, which is so super cool. And I love it because it's a little bit of the serendipity of midlife. Sometimes we just put ourselves in new rooms and new places, and things come together.
Jenn Sherman12:48
And so many women don't even believe that that's a possibility, and that's why I love telling my story. I sent this email out not expecting to even hear back from someone. Not only did I hear back, but when John asked if I would come into the city to sit down to talk to him more about Peloton, the next part of this was: OK, I'm going to sit down in front of this guy. I'm in my early 40s, and he's going to take one look at me and not be interested — like, he was building a fitness company from the ground up. And the fact that John Foley took a chance on me and his very first instructor was in her mid-40s, a mom of two young kids, when he could have hired anyone in New York City, much, much younger — that's one of the parts of the story that I'm the most proud of and love telling people. And I tell John every year of my life. I see him, and we still speak, but I will write him a note thanking him for changing my life, because he really gave me a chance at 40-something years old that I never thought I would have. It reinvented my entire life and where I was at that point. It was a major pivot, and I'm really proud of it.
Katie Fogarty14:18
Yeah. Ten minutes to a new life — I love that idea. And Jenn, we're heading into a quick break, but when we come back, we were talking about how you had this wonderful opportunity where somebody looked at you and said, "45 — get on the bike. You're our first hire." And it was such a powerful moment. I love this story too, because I have something similar in my own life. I'd been a stay-at-home mom for a bunch of years, a master's in broadcast journalism collecting dust on a shelf, unused. And I had five minutes between somebody's nap, and I saw something online, much the way you did. Something called Patch.com — which was at the time AOL's hyper-local news platform — was looking to hire writers in my community. And I said, "Why not me?" And I pulled out my dusty résumé and sent it off, and I got hired. I was hired to write, and I wrote for them for a year. So I can so relate to this — being this active mom, taking a break from whatever you do professionally, and then really just taking a chance on "Why not?" So this is a great lead into a question for listeners to this show who are thinking, "Maybe the window is too late for me." Jenn did this in her mid-40s. Katie was in her mid-40s. I'm now 56. I know you're 57. What would you say to women who are in that zone, who might be thinking the window for reinvention has closed?
Jenn Sherman15:40
For those women who are saying that they think it's too late — I say back, "Says who?" Honestly, who decided that there's an expiration date on becoming who you want to be, and when? And I know, as we start to age and as the years go by, a lot of women, including myself, start to lose confidence in who we are or what may lie ahead. What opportunities exist. Women have to tell themselves that they are more equipped than they realize and more equipped than they have ever been, because with every year that passes, we get wiser, we get more confident, we know who we are even more than we did five or ten years before. Women just have to not be scared, as you put it, to throw their hat in the ring. You've got to be willing to take a chance and take a shot. If I had sent that email, Katie, and nobody had answered me — which is what I was expecting — what would I have lost? It took me 10 minutes to write the email. If I never heard back from anyone, I never heard back. But I did hear back, and one thing led to another, and it changed the entire course and direction of my life in my mid-40s. So I say to those women: it is not too late. You need to just tell yourself, "Why not me?" And that's where you start. Why not me? I deserve it as much as somebody else.
Katie Fogarty17:06
Yeah, 10 minutes to a new life. I love that idea. This is a great time to talk about what you're doing with your life right now. You've been 12 to 15 years at Peloton. Right now you're really in the midst of creating something special, which you're calling the Back Nine Era. I would love for you to share with our listeners what the Back Nine Era is and why you felt compelled to create it now.
Jenn Sherman17:28
Let's talk about why I felt compelled to create it now, because I was living through a time in my life that no one seemed to be talking about loudly enough. So I'll back up. The Back Nine Era — it really is a mindset. It came from a very personal realization. You mentioned I'm 57 now, but it came to me in my mid-50s. It just hit me like it does. It hit me that time is not unlimited anymore. And I don't say that in a depressing way. It was kind of like an awakening for me. And when I talk about the Back Nine Era — because a lot of women ask me about that — the Back Nine is a golf analogy. I don't play golf. I happen to be a big fan of golf and I watch it, but I don't play the game. When I came up with titling it "the Back Nine Era," if you're on the back nine of a golf course, the round of golf is far from over, right? But when you are playing those last back-nine holes, you've got to start to become really thoughtful about how you play each one of those holes. You become more strategic. You're paying attention. You're making smarter choices. You're not just swinging the clubs wildly. And that's exactly what this chapter of life was feeling like to me. Women in midlife start asking different kinds of questions, and they start feeling things that seem to come out of nowhere, Katie. It's like, "What the hell is going on? Why do I feel this way? Why do I look different? Why do I have this brain fog? Where is this coming from? Why is everything that I've been doing successfully for the last 10 years that's been working so well — why does it feel like none of that's working anymore?" All of those things kind of hit me at once, and I was like, "You know what? Why isn't anybody talking about this?" Because women and their bodies and their minds go through a lot when you hit, let's call it, late 40s, early 50s, mid-50s. And we should be talking about it. And I just decided that I was going to start speaking loudly about this period of my life that I'm in, because it's an amazing time of life. It's not a time where we should be fading into the background. It's just about becoming more intentional with how we move, how we fuel ourselves, how we spend our time, and where we choose to put our energy. Let's call it that.
Katie Fogarty20:04
Yeah, we're bringing intention, we're honing our focus, and we're getting loud. To your point, the tagline of this show is "Age Out Loud." We are embracing this period of life. I also don't play golf, but I do watch it because my husband's a fan. And I think there's so much enjoyment and so much juice you can squeeze out of life during these back-nine holes. But you're right — we have less time in front of us than we have behind us, and we need to bring intention and focus. So let's talk a little bit about how we bring intention and focus to fitness during the second part of life. How has your relationship with fitness and your own body changed as you moved through some of those changes? You were saying brain fog, we deal with perimenopause, menopause. How has your own relationship with fitness changed from your 40s to your 50s?
Jenn Sherman20:51
Oh my gosh, it has changed so much. And here's one thing — we'll get into it, but I just want to say one thing about the fitness industry and what they get wrong, and I want women in their 40s and 50s to hear this. The fitness industry still talks to women in midlife like we're trying to look the way we did at 30. And that's not what's happening anymore, right? That's not the goal anymore. The goal for women our age, Katie, is longevity and capacity and being able to train in a way that's going to end up giving us the strongest, healthiest life we can have. The way I'm training now, Katie, is so I can pick up my grandkids in 10 years. The way I'm training now is so I can get up off the floor without assistance when I'm in my mid-60s. And there are things that have to be done differently. I was the cardio queen. I don't know who else can relate to this out there, but I have a feeling some of your listeners can. I was always chasing cardio, cardio, cardio. And while I still love my cardio and I make a career out of riding a bike — cardio, of course, is still so important for the health of your heart, and cardiovascular fitness is important — in this era, in this Back Nine Era, we need to focus on building strength, on building muscle, on building resilience. And the conversation shifts away from aesthetics to longevity. So the first thing I would say, the first big change I made, was starting to pick up weights — something that, even though I worked out my entire life, I hadn't done a whole ton of. I did some weight training, but now weight training is at the core of what I do. I'm in the gym, lifting heavy things, pulling, pushing — all those important movements. I'm doing that four days a week, sometimes five. I don't recommend that right out of the gate. I tell people to start really small, because if you dive in with too much, you're going to fail. You start very small and you build. But lifting weights is really important. Women, you've got to get into the gym if you've never been there before.
Katie Fogarty23:21
So that's great. If you've never been there before, that's a great segue. So for somebody who really is a late adopter to active fitness or to weight training, what is your recommendation post-50? What does the research say? And then what does your own experience say? Because you are in front of rooms of men and women, and you've been doing this for a long time. What has your own lived experience taught you about how to get going when it hasn't been part of your regular life?
Jenn Sherman23:51
People tend to overcomplicate fitness. And if you've been out of a routine and you're just getting back to one, I really have to emphasize this: start small, start really small. And what that means is, even if we call it three workouts a week, 20 minutes at a time — what's most important is building the habit first. Then it becomes a routine. What people tend to do is they jump in. They think they have to go all in immediately. Women or men that haven't worked out in months or years suddenly decide that they're going to start training six days a week. And guess what? That's setting yourself up for failure. Consistency is the key to this entire thing. The fittest people in the long run are the ones that continue to show up. So it's about building the habits. Start small: three workouts a week, 20 minutes, let's call it. And then you build from there. Once it becomes a routine, you can add on. And to the people out there who don't know where to start, Katie — like women or men who have never really even picked up a dumbbell — the beautiful thing is, if you don't belong to a gym, things have changed so much, obviously, from when I first started working out. You have the resources at your fingertips with the internet. Whether or not you have a Peloton app or a different app on your phone, or no fitness app at all, you can find everything you need right at your fingertips to walk you through a very beginner's experience of starting to move your body with weights and dumbbells. People always say to me, "I don't have the Peloton app" or "I don't belong to a gym right now" or "I can't afford to join a gym right now." You just need to get your hands on some dumbbells. And if you've got access to a phone or a computer, the resources are endless and they're out there. So that's a great thing.
Katie Fogarty26:11
Yeah, there's a lot of great free stuff on YouTube as well. But I like your point about the app, because I have found when I do use fitness trackers or trainers, it's helpful to keep me on track. I've been doing — and I'm going to be totally candid — I haven't tried Peloton, but I've been doing Barre3. And when I log on to my online classes, they have a little calendar helping me see how many minutes I worked out during a week or what types of classes I've done. And I find that technology is helpful. It makes me feel motivated. It helps me track where I've been spending my time. And I know apps like Peloton offer that, and other types of apps as well. But I love your point that it can be as simple as — and this is going to be so embarrassing — I moved several months ago. And when we downsized, we got rid of my son's weight bench and all these dumbbells and all this stuff that we had in our basement exercise area. So I wound up in my two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan without even any little hand weights. And when I was doing the Barre thing, I ordered some weights online, but I was actually using soup cans at the beginning.
Jenn Sherman27:14
Wow.
Katie Fogarty27:15
I don't recommend it, because my hands aren't that big. And I was like, "I'm going to drop this soup can on my toe and be really out of luck." But oh —
Jenn Sherman27:29
That's really funny.
Katie Fogarty27:31
You can DIY stuff.
Jenn Sherman27:33
You can DIY stuff. Again, I started out this part of the conversation by saying that people tend to overcomplicate things, and you don't need it to be a complicated program. So a simple framework could look like: let's call it two to three days of strength work, and then one to two days of some higher-intensity cardio that might include some interval training — where you're really pushing yourself for, let's call it 20 or 30 seconds at an all-out effort, followed by a recovery. So it's a little higher-intensity cardio on one to two days, two to three days of that strength training. Don't overcomplicate it. You can really have an effective routine. It can be a simplified routine, and you can build on it from there. The basics work. That's what I want to remind people. Going out and taking a vigorous walk — I remember the days of saying, "I'm not walking. Walking is not exercise." Well, boy, boy, boy, do I want to eat those words. Walking is one of the best things that you can do for your body in midlife, and it doesn't require a gym. It doesn't require any equipment. So that's what I'm also saying about getting some of that cardio in: taking that long walk, that short walk, whatever you have time to do, is better than doing nothing at all. It doesn't have to be overcomplicated, and that's what people have to know. Because people get scared. They're so intimidated. There's so much out there, so much information. Strip that away. Start simple and build from there.
Katie Fogarty29:16
And do it with a friend. I love the fact that your friend Barbara Albert was the one that said, "Hey, Jenn, come to this class with me." And then you were hooked, and you were into it. And we could easily reach out to our friends and say, "Let's take a walk. Let's try a new class together."
Jenn Sherman29:31
That's a huge part of it. I mean, community is a huge part of it. Having a friend that you could call up and say, "Do you want to go take this walk with me today? You want to go on this hike with me today? How about we try this Pilates class?" Whatever it might be — doing things with a friend always makes everything more fun. I always say that.
Katie Fogarty29:49
Community is built at the gym too. So talk to us a little bit about why you see community as being so central to women's health and fitness at this stage.
Jenn Sherman29:57
Community is everything, and it's such a huge part of what actually separates Peloton and makes it different. Community just makes people feel seen. It makes people feel a part of something. You've got people surrounding you that are championing you, that are pushing you, that you can stay accountable with. It's everything. It's a great way to move through your fitness journey — being a part of some kind of community, whether it's online, whether you're going and taking your local class and you're used to seeing the same people who are there every other week. Community is everything. And when you have a partner in crime to go through it with, it just makes it more fun. Like I said, Katie, if I don't feel like working out, but you called me on a Tuesday morning and said, "Jenn, come on, we made this plan. Just get up. You just need to get up. I'll meet you in 10 minutes" — guess what? I'm going to be more apt to get up and do it, Katie, because we're going to do it together.
Katie Fogarty30:52
Oh my gosh, Jenn, I've got a funny tip to add — like, you should make your accountability partner your early-rising friend, because my alarm went off yesterday morning at six o'clock —
Jenn Sherman31:04
Because —
Katie Fogarty31:05
I had agreed to meet my friend Lisa for a hike — an hour's drive for me. So when that alarm went off at six, if it were just me, I would have hit snooze, but I thought: Lisa. We were going to be on a mountain together.
Jenn Sherman31:20
Yeah.
Katie Fogarty31:20
And I got up. I got up, I put my clothes on, I made some coffee, I got in the car, I drove an hour, and we hiked for 90 minutes.
Jenn Sherman31:26
Guess what? I love that story because it's that simple. You know what? Lean in on your friends. Lean in on one another to keep each other moving and to keep each other accountable. It's a great thing.
Katie Fogarty31:39
Yeah, 100%. Let's talk a little bit about planning and habits too, because I know a lot of the Back Nine Era and a lot of your work focuses on fitness, but you've been thinking broadly about how we age vibrantly. And interpersonal health is a big part of that. What are some of the choices and habits that you recommend for women that you think are effective when we're moving into our 50s, 60s, and beyond, to really be thriving?
Jenn Sherman32:07
Yeah, there's so much that goes on with us in midlife with all these hormonal changes, etc. So this is going to sound like a cliché — you've heard this before — but training smarter, instead of just harder, is just one of my many mantras that I find myself repeating over and over and over again to women. It's really about prioritizing things like strength training, which needs to become non-negotiable. It's about prioritizing recovery, because, Katie, I was never great at that. I really was never great at that. It's so important at this stage of our lives to prioritize recovery — your sleep, your rest. We haven't mentioned drinking our water, and we haven't really talked about the nutrition part of it all, but trying to be really mindful of our protein and all that kind of thing — it just needs to be intentional, and it needs to be thought about. The way you're fueling, the way you're moving, and the choices that we're making. So here's another thing that I think is really important in the Back Nine Era. I feel like I'm going all over the place here, but I want to just get this in: being able to make choices at this point in your life that matter. Being able to do things that bring you joy in a more intentional way at this stage of life is so important. Here's one of my big things in midlife: being able to say no to things that we used to say yes to in the past that didn't serve us or bring us joy. There are obligations in life, right — certain things we just have to do. But being able to say no — the power of being able to choose and make decisions that are going to serve you well — is so powerful, so freeing. You know, I was always —
Katie Fogarty34:08
It is freeing, but it can be a little bit hard sometimes. So, Jenn, what would be an example in your own life? Like, what is something that you said no to lately that might have been hard for you to do when you were younger?
Jenn Sherman34:17
Listen, I say no to a lot of things. I have become the queen of saying no, and it brings me so much joy at this point in my life.
Katie Fogarty34:24
You're like, "I have a PhD in saying no. I have gotten there."
Jenn Sherman34:28
And it feels fantastic. And I'm not saying — this is not about being rude to people. That's not what we're talking about. But it's about being comfortable in saying no to, let's say, an invitation to something where you know that if you go and join this group of people on this certain night — you get invited to something, but you also know that you've got a workout planned in the morning, or you're going to be on a podcast in the afternoon. Saying no to attending a party or something that just doesn't serve you because you know what you have coming the next day. Or maybe it's bringing you into a room where you don't feel comfortable and you don't need to be there. Being able to say no to the things that don't serve you is going to give you so much extra energy and life. It's really unbelievable. Once you start doing it, it just feels really good.
Katie Fogarty35:26
Yeah, and it gives you more time too. I think a lot of us — and I'm putting myself on this list — sometimes we are a bit on autopilot. So we have habits or practices or relationships or obligations that are really held over from a previous season in our lives, but we forget to reevaluate them and we move along on autopilot. But when we look at where we spend our time and energy and think to ourselves, "Well, what can I put down for now? What can I move off this list?" In order to, like you said, give yourself energy, but also give yourself time to take on new things. Maybe if I put something down, maybe I can pick up Peloton —
Jenn Sherman36:09
Correct.
Katie Fogarty36:11
We have to sometimes ask ourselves: is it time to reinvent a little bit? Or sometimes the word "reinvent" — I think people have an allergic reaction to it, because it implies you need to change your life. But maybe a better word is "reimagine." Like, can I reimagine the kind of exercise that I do? I've been doing Bikram for years. I slowly added Barre, but maybe I can also reimagine my mix and add in Peloton. Or I could reimagine how I volunteer and do different things.
Jenn Sherman36:40
I like thinking of it like that. In this chapter — I've been talking to women all over the place about the Back Nine Era — this chapter, we're going to be stronger, we're smarter, we're more seasoned. So "reimagining" — I love that idea as well. You want to stay engaged with life. You want to do things again that are bringing you joy. I'm big on saying that. And it could be something as small as picking up a book because you haven't read in a really long time. The Back Nine Era is not just about being stronger in a physical way. I really want women to take time to make intentional choices with everything they're doing in their life, because this is, again, an amazing time in life. It really is. It's not the time to be shriveling. It's not the time to be fading into the background. It's about doing everything that you can so you can live your best and strongest life in 10 to 20 years from now. How do I stay independent? How do I stay engaged with life? What are the things that we can do so we are our strongest version of ourselves? I'm 57 now. I want to feel this great at 60, and 65, and 70, and 75. Everything I'm doing now is so I can be my strongest and most capable self when I'm 65, 75, God willing, 85. I'm putting in all the work now to make those years the best years for me as well.
Katie Fogarty38:12
That's the goal. That's the goal. So when you think about training for longevity — and you've outlined a little bit about what you do — besides strength training, what is something else that you feel too many women undervalue or under-prioritize?
Jenn Sherman38:29
Again, I mean, let's just touch on recovery for a minute. There are a lot of women in the Back Nine Era who have the physical part down — moving their body the right way, training their body the right way. They've got that down pat. But a lot of us do not take the time to really give our body the rest that it needs and deserves, whether that's by way of sleep, recovery, all of those things. I am finding more and more women saying to me, "Oh my God, I'm the worst. I don't know when to take a day off. I'm so caught up in my routine." I see both sides of the coin. A lot of women have trouble slowing down, and they have trouble giving themselves that break that their body and their minds both need. So it goes on both sides of the coin. You know what I'm saying? I speak to so many women who are training and fueling properly in this era because they want to be able to be the strongest versions of themselves 10 years from now. But a lot of those women come to me and tell me that they don't carve out a lot of time to really take what they need to rejuvenate and recharge the battery. So that's important as well. And women need to realize that after all of these years of taking care of ourselves and our families and our partners and, if we've raised children, our children — now in midlife, when our children are a little bit older and out of the house, it's our time. Now it's time to really focus on you and to take care of you in the best way possible. And that includes really listening to your body, taking recovery seriously, and resting when you need to. Women aren't giving themselves enough time to really recover. That's a big problem as well.
Katie Fogarty40:23
We have such a busy modern life, and it feels like it never stops. And there's this hysterical-slash-sad meme that goes around the internet that says something like, "Life is just saying to yourself over and over again, 'It'll calm down tomorrow,' until you die." Like, every day you're like, "Oh, maybe next week will calm down." And it's like, guess what — next week is still jammed too. So you really have to be intentional about creating this rest and recovery. So what does that look like for you in practice? I have a lot of listeners to this show who do love to work out — I know that because they tell me over DMs — and a lot of the people who listen to this show are really actively and intentionally involved with their healthy aging. So we probably do have some of the routines down pat. But how would you, in practice, encourage us to slow down? What is the rhythm of that?
Jenn Sherman41:11
Every week is a little bit different, only because my career is in fitness. So I've got my fitness that takes place on the bike, teaching classes to thousands of people during the week, but then I've also got what I'm doing on my own to try to maintain this strength, this journey that I'm on. So every week is a little bit different. But if I've gone really hard — like today, I taught a 30-minute cycling class, so I got some cardio in today, and I'm feeling like I need to get down to my gym because I want to. I didn't do any lifting today, I didn't do any of that kind of work — but yesterday I had a super intense day. So I have decided — I've made this choice — I taught my class this morning, I got my cardio in, and for the rest of the day I am not going to worry about getting down to the gym and lifting any weights. I'll be back to it tomorrow. I will take the rest of the day off. After I'm done speaking to you, I'm going to go downstairs and think about what I'm going to be preparing for dinner later. I'm going to crack open my book, and I'm going to take the rest of the day and just treat myself to a relaxing afternoon, knowing that I'm going to get back to my fitness routine. I'm going to be lifting weights again tomorrow morning. It's really just about telling yourself that you can take that time off — that going hard at it every day is going to break your body down as well. That's going to leave you injured. That's not going to leave you in the best shape you need to be in. It's about longevity, right? That's what we're talking about. So it's about being able to do this for the long run, for the long game, not the short game. So it really does mean figuring out your week — when you're going to take those breaks, when you're going to take those days off — and take that time off. If you've had a really intense long run day, speaking to a lot of people who are big runners — I'm not a big runner, but there are different ways to train your body depending on what you're really doing with it. If you're someone who prioritizes running, you've got a whole different routine than someone like you and me. But I'm trying to encourage the women who just don't stop and let themselves take a break: you've got to know that taking a break is doing a service for your body. You're not doing your body a service if you're just going to pound it into the ground. You need to understand that you can take that break. Your body needs that break, and then you can get back to it. It's a balance.
Katie Fogarty43:58
Yeah. And I think if people are planners, you could put those breaks on the calendar, just like you would your workouts or your classes. And I love the fact that you looked at your calendar, you looked at the white space in your day, and you said, "I'm choosing my book, and I'm choosing some meal prep." And things like that — I find they empty your brain. You switch on and switch off your brain in different ways when you're doing different things, and it's probably just as incredibly important to have that kind of neuro shift doing something entirely different. So, Jenn, I'm curious as we wrap our time together — you've given us such a great sense of your career, I love the story about the opening of your career and how you got there, I love your thinking on fitness and how it's available to us at any level — but I'm curious to know what you think the Back Nine Era movement could become. When you sit here, you tapped into the universe 15 years ago and sent off an email that opened a door and changed your life. As you sit here at this moment in time, thinking: what could I put out into the universe that might change my life so it looks radically different in 15 years? What do you hope the Back Nine Era movement might become?
Jenn Sherman45:05
I just want to grow this community. The women out there who have been listening to me talk about the Back Nine Era for these last bunch of months — since I've really come forward with it — it's really, really resonated. I have never seen a reaction as strong as I have to anything I've put out there since I've been on the Peloton platform. I've been out there for 13 years. Women want to be able to discuss what they're feeling and what they're going through in midlife. There are things happening that really do come out of nowhere, and I want women to know that they are not alone. It's very empowering to feel like you have like-minded women surrounding you who are feeling and going through the exact same things. And I want to just keep continuing to be loud and proud about what a great time of life this is. It's a mindset — you just have to shift the way that you think about it. Doing this alone is a lot harder than doing it together. And when you get people around you who support you, it takes on a different kind of meaning and a different kind of momentum. I just want women to understand that we are strong and we are capable, and this stage of life should be looked at as an exciting one — not one that we are scared to enter, not one that we are depressed about. It's about thinking about what we can do to honor these amazing years that are ahead of us. And I'm going to keep talking as loud as I can, as long as someone out there will listen. And that's my plan.
Katie Fogarty46:51
I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. We are aging out loud over here, and I'm so glad to be doing it with you. Midlife is more fun with friends, and we think of the Mary Oliver quote: "What are you doing with your one wild and precious life?" And you're going to keep living it fully, vibrantly, and for as long as you can. Jenn, this has been such a pleasure hanging out with you. I knew it was going to be amazing because, as I said, I've been following you and I know your energy. So I'm so grateful that you brought it to the show today, especially after you were already in New York in a studio reaching gazillions of people with your class today. Before I say goodbye, where can our listeners who are not yet connected to you follow you and find more about the Back Nine Era?
Jenn Sherman47:37
You can find me on Instagram at @PelotonJenn — Jenn with two N's. I'm putting out a lot of content about the Back Nine Era all over my Instagram platform. And then, of course, if you are on the Peloton platform, you're going to find me there. I'm about to dive into Substack, Katie. Have you —
Katie Fogarty47:58
I haven't. I'm a reader, I'm a Substack fan, but I'm not a Substack creator yet. But I'll read yours.
Jenn Sherman48:04
So yeah, I'm going to just start now building out a Substack, so people will be able to find me there at PelotonJenn as well. And that's where you can find me. And hopefully — who knows where this will lead me? I'll let everyone know where I am as I begin to grow the movement. And it is growing quickly, and I'm so proud of it.
Katie Fogarty48:24
Phenomenal, Jenn. Thank you so much for your time today.
Jenn Sherman48:27
Thank you so much, Katie, for having me. I really appreciate it.
Katie Fogarty48:32
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Another fantastic conversation in the books. I loved hearing Jenn's backstory about popping into a stranger's inbox and how that set in motion her one-of-a-kind fitness journey and career — such a cool reminder that it is never too late to bet on yourself, to reinvent or switch up your life in some way at midlife and beyond. If you are a fan of Jenn Sherman, if you're a fan of Peloton or cycling or fitness, and you took something away from the show, I want to hear about it. Let me know in an Apple Podcast or Spotify review. Please share this with the women in your life who you think will find the topic interesting. I thought Jenn was so fascinating. She's inspiring me to add some Peloton to my Bikram yoga workouts. Thanks again for sticking around to the end of the show, and as always, special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then — age boldly, beauties.