Joyful Aging and How to Make Midlife a “Radiant Rebellion” with Author Karen Walrond
Show Snapshot:
What if aging could be joyful? What if we viewed more candles on the cake as something to aspire to and embrace? Author Karen Walrond approached a milestone year with excitement, not fear, and thought—What if we could forge a radiant rebellion against the idea of aging as a season of decline? What came next was a book and a call-to-arms for a radical reframe of how we view aging. On this show, Karen dives into the lessons from her latest book, “Radiant Rebellion: Reclaim Aging, Practice Joy, and Raise a Little Hell,” and invites us to rebel against ageism alongside her. Aging is living!
Show Links:
Follow Karen
Karen’s book: Radiant Rebellion: Reclaim Aging, Practice Joy, and Raise a Little Hell
Quotable:
The idea of reaching a certain age, whatever age that is, and becoming smaller, more invisible or diminishing didn't ring true…I saw people my age, or older, who were starting companies, writing books, writing bestsellers, starring in movies, producing movies—so many amazing things were happening.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to a certain age a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud beauties buckle up. We have a fab show today. And I need your help because we are getting ready for a tectonic shift a revolution in thinking a very Gen X Rage Against the Machine of rebellion of sorts, and we need everybody to join in. Now this is a very specific rebellion. Let's call it a radiant rebellion of rebellion that says agent can be joyful, that says agent can be embraced and celebrated. And this joyful call to arms is being issued by My guest today, Author Activist, Joy chaser, light maker, and radiant rebel, Karen Walrond. She joins me today to talk about her latest book, radiant rebellion, reclaim aging, practice joy, and raise a little hell. Welcome, Karen.
Karen Walrond 0:55
Oh, my gosh, what an introduction. Thank you very much. I love being here.
Katie Fogarty 0:59
Well, I'm so excited because I wanted like a galvanizing sort of call to arms because I love the message that you are sharing in your book. We need everyone to get on board because you had me a joyful Radio.
Karen Walrond 1:14
Thank you so much. I love that. And you know, I love that you said Rage Against the Machine. A friend of mine who I actually interview in the book, Ashton Applewhite, she calls it aging Against The Machine, which I really, really loved.
Katie Fogarty 1:24
Totally, oh my gosh, that's, you're jogging my memory, because I read the book. And I that jumped out at me as well. But you know, you're here for a reason you're here because we are really on the same page with this. You know, aging can be joyful. I love the use of the word radiant, radiant rebellion. What made you sit down and write this book? Yeah, well, you
Karen Walrond 1:46
know, it was, honestly, for really selfish reasons. I'd love to say that I had altruistic reasons for writing it. But I wrote the book last year. And last year, I turned 55, I celebrated my 20th anniversary, and my only child turned 18 and graduated high school moved to college. So it was a year full of all of these milestone times. And, of course, because especially with having a daughter that was a senior graduating senior, I had a lot of friends who were sort of in the same place. And they were really still upset about it, not just the fact that their children would be leaving home. But the fact that it meant that the time was marching on kind of thing. And I was not like I was thrilled, I've never been a person that like lamented getting older or lamented my birthdays, I, my daughter leaving home. Honestly, that was kind of the goal all along, right? Like, like our goal are to raise, you know, self sufficient, independent kids. And so I really didn't understand why. One, I seem to be the only person who was really excited about the things that were happening, like truly excited. And to the idea of reaching a certain age, whatever age that is, and sort of becoming smaller or more invisible or diminishing just didn't ring true. For the people that I saw around me, like all around me, I saw people my age or older who were starting companies, or they were writing books, or writing bestsellers, or starring in movies or producing movies, like there was so much amazing things that were happening. And I was like, What is that about? Like? Why? Why did why is there such a disconnect? And then honestly, I thought, Well, okay, I, I feel great about all of this. But what if I'm crazy? Like what if I'm the crazy one? And suddenly it's right, like, Oh my God, you're
Katie Fogarty 3:45
right, it is terrible.
Karen Walrond 3:48
So I thought, Okay, I want to write this book. And I want to kind of one explore why it is that people feel that horrible and to speak to experts in different areas of life, like spirituality or health or beauty or all the different things that we think about as we get older, and sort of take their advice, like what would it mean to take their advice? And what would it mean to be aging in a way that you feel really grounded and confident in your aging? Right? Like what what do you have to do? What are some of the practices you have to do and that is what the radiant rebellion is all about. That's what the that's what the books about
Katie Fogarty 4:27
I love this and your book in the Genesis as you just shared is rooted in a very, the personal it was triggered by these personal milestones and throughout the book, you do share lovely personal anecdotes, but you also get into data and research. You have incredible interviews and you share some really fascinating history on aging and ageism and how ageism slowly crept into our culture, and why so many people are, you know, feeling like despondent or upset as they age. Can you share a little bit With our listeners about the history of ageism, and how it took hold,
Karen Walrond 5:03
oh my god, this is probably the My Favorite research that I did for the book. And a friend actually asked it of me like when she knew that I was reading the book. She was like, Do you know why we like why did that happen? And I thought I have no idea. So I started researching it. And I came across the work of a psychologist, psychiatrist and medical historian. Her name is Dr. Laura Hirsch mine, and she conducts research on the history of psychiatry and health policy. And she wanted to know the same thing like why do we fear aging, and she decided in order to do her research, what she wanted to do was read, like popular magazines over time and see what they said about aging. And it turns out in the early 1900s, most articles about aging were written by older folks, right? Which is not true today. So most people who were like in their 70s 80s and 90s, they were writing about how much they loved aging and how much they loved that they had all this wisdom. And a few might talk about disability, but mostly they just talked about how, you know how things felt more expansive for them that they loved learning. And everybody loved aging back then. Fast forward, two world wars, a Great Depression. And the US government decides that you know what, these older people are keeping jobs away from younger fathers, let's say right, because it was it was primarily fathers who have young family. So what we're going to do is we're going to establish a retirement age of 65, so that we can get older people out of the workforce so that these younger people have a better shot at getting jobs, right. So now, because older people are not contributing to the economy, now they're seen as a burden. And they're seen as a national problem, right? Because what what what are they around for anyway? And then this is my favorite part. Pediatricians and child psychologists decided to start expanding their research into older people. And they set as the standard for healthy and normal five year olds. Wow. So if you weren't as agile or as cognitive, cognitively quick, as a five year old, then you were impaired. And now all of the articles are now reading or being written by doctors and medicals talking about the problems of aging. And then I actually I don't know if I mentioned this or not in the book, Clairol comes to town. Oh, yeah,
Katie Fogarty 7:33
I've done a show on going gray. I know, I know about the Clairol influence. Exactly.
Karen Walrond 7:38
So Clairol goes to doubt is like oh my god, you don't want people to think you're older, you need to start dyeing your hair. Right. So and that's all within the first 50 years of the 20th century. So in 50 years, it went from people really sort of celebrating age and the wisdom that comes with age and the historical like knowledge that comes with age, to absolutely deploring it, you've got to hide it. It's something to be ashamed of. You don't want to be seen as a
Katie Fogarty 8:04
burden. It's really it's truly astonishing, the sort of cultural shift that you chronicle in the book. And I thought it was absolutely fascinating. You also interview a raft of extraordinary people in the book, including Brene, brown Tirana, Burke, who was the activist leader of the Mewtwo movement. You mentioned ageism activist Ashton Applewhite. We're heading into a quick break. When we come back, I want to hear if there was one particular person or point of view that really transformed the way you think about aging. We'll be back after this break. Karen, we're back. When we headed into the break. We talked about this really, you know, amazing list of people that you connected with in the book to interview big names like Brene, brown, age activist Ashton Applewhite. They all share incredible thinking and ideas that I hope people will pick the book up and read. But I'm wondering if there's any one that really helped you that shared something that helped you redefine how you view aging, you know, a major takeaway that transform you most deeply from your interview process?
Karen Walrond 9:06
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they were all like you say they were all really, really brilliant. But you know, I think the one that really kind of shook me to my core was Ashton. And it was mostly because I went into this project feeling somewhat smug. Right, like, like I said, I'm not a person to be
Katie Fogarty 9:23
honest answer. I love it. Why were you smug tell us,
Karen Walrond 9:27
I never feared aging. Like I loved my birthday. I celebrated my birthday. I've never been a person who was like, Oh, my God, I'm getting older. I'm running out of time. So I walked into this feeling like I got this right. Like I, I don't have a problem with aging or ageism. And it turns out, of course, that we all do because we are steeped in this culture that says that getting older is bad. And so the conversation I had with Ashton who is amazing, amazing. She has a wonderful TED talk called Let's fight ageism. That's how I found her and reached out to her and she kind Lee said that she would speak to me about this. I asked her I was like, so you know, how can you what advice would you give to people about a tackling their own internalized ageism? And again, I asked the question thinking, those people who do it not me. She said, Well, I would really think about how we use the words young and old. And I said, I don't understand what you mean, what are you talking about? And she said, Well, I hear people say all the time, I don't feel old. And I said, Well, yeah, I say that all the time myself. Like, I don't feel old. And she goes, Well, I suspect when you use the word old, you're saying I don't feel unsexy or I don't feel invisible, or I don't feel, you know, unconfident or whatever. And, and I said, Well, okay, she goes, Yeah, but like, when I don't know about you, but when I was 13, I didn't feel sexy. And I didn't feel like those attributes are not age dependent. Right. And it was like,
Speaker 1 11:00
like, my brain exploded. Yeah. Because
Karen Walrond 11:03
I like, of course, I mean, it felt so innocuous to say, I don't feel old, and not even realizing that I'm using old in a pejorative way. Right, right. It's fast. And so it's so I mean, it literally that probably broke me open it same sort of thing. Like when people say, Oh, my gosh, you're 56 You don't look 56 You look so much younger, right? And even before speaking to Ashton, there was something about that, that felt a little bit off. Like I was like, I don't know if that's a good thing, right? Like, but now I realize it's because we say young means good, old means bad, right? And we age at different rates, like, you know, like we constantly are, we become more and more diverse, the older that we get. And so to use, like older, young as shorthand for things that doesn't even apply, makes no sense. Like, let's be more precise, I don't feel invisible. I don't feel, you know, impaired, I don't feel whatever it is that you want to say. It's not about whether or not you're old or not, or young or not, right. It's really about just how you feel. Yeah,
Katie Fogarty 12:10
it's such a great chat, Karen, because we you know, you and I did a quick pre call before we hopped on this recording, and you sort of share this old young, you know, epiphany that you had about language that we use, and I was just shooting a very quick Instagram real yesterday holding a composition notebook, because September for me is like, go time, and I'm back to school. And I'm excited. And I almost said, you know, I'm old school, look at me with my composition notebook. And then I thought I had to think to myself like, Is that the right thing to say like, you know, old school, you really, you have to sort of check your language. And I love that you made me think more deeply about the words that I'm using. And you offer a great prompt in your book. I mean, your book has sort of broken into three broad areas, there's different themes that emerge in each book. But at the end, you offer a series of prompts that anyone can use to kind of activate the lessons from the book in their own lives. And one of the prompts that you encourage readers to ask themselves is, what do I think it means to be young? And I thought that was such a fascinating prompt, because sort of what comes up is when we think about what does it mean to be young and youthful as energy, it's joy, it's, you know, playful, active. And honestly, I feel like I can be all of those things right now at 53. You know, but you
Karen Walrond 13:26
can probably all of those things, even older, much older, right? Less,
Katie Fogarty 13:30
of course, but you could also be but the reverse is true too. Because you can be you can be you know, close minded or you know, in a fixed mindset or you know, stuff RJ lethargic or Anjana, at any age, it's not. But we do assign these values to certain ages. So that's why I thought that was absolutely such a fascinating, fascinating prompt. Yeah, let's move on. I wanted to ask you specifically about the use of the word rebellion and your book title, right, because, you know, it's a it's a radiant rebellion, but it's still a rebellion, you know, and we're rebelling against the tired sort of dated and as you shared internalized notions, that aging diminishes us in some way. What What are one to two tools you could offer our listeners to help them in their own radiant rebellion, you know, to sort of push back against this notion that aging makes them less than
Karen Walrond 14:26
Yeah, so one of the you know, the word rebellion sort of evolved I when I again I started writing this book with a really sort of smug mindset that I was just gonna be like, oh, people don't fear aging aging is awesome, you'll be fine right? And what I found out was that ageism is baked into our society. It is the reason we fear it right? If there's a largely unregulated trillion dollar anti aging industry, right, that targets wait for it. 24 year olds, that's that is the target that a lot of these or these be beauty companies and all these other anti aging companies target to say, Oh, you better stop aging. And of course, if they can convince you that you need to stop aging, they've got a customer for life, right? So it really is baked into our culture. And I feel like we really collectively, whatever age whatever stage we are, need to rebel against that. So a few things, obviously, the first one is think about how you use the words old and young, like we spoke about. A lot of the other things is really sort of understand, like, what you're buying, making smart purchasing decisions, like understanding what's what you want to buy, when you look at the eye cream that says removes fine lines or whatever else, right? Like, really sort of self interrogate? Why is that important? First of all, I'm very, I will just admit, I'm very skeptical of any product that says that it can make you look younger, I mean, honestly. But if that's what's appealing to you really sort of interrogate that why is that important? Like, why do I need to remove fine lines? What does that say about me? What does that say about how I speak to myself and what I think of myself, when I want to erase certain parts of myself? You know, one of the things that I did, right before I started writing the book, but sort of over the course of the book is I decided to stop dyeing my hair. Now, I want to be very clear, I'm not suggesting everybody to like put down all of the face creams and stop dyeing their hair. I'm not I'm not suggesting that. And I am also very cognizant that there are some real repercussions for some people to stop doing that there are articles all over the place of anchor, women and anchor men who have decided to go gray and getting fired for getting going gray on camera, right, like so, there are some real repercussions to deciding to ditch dye or you know, stop doing that. And I get I get that. But what I think it's really important for all of us to do is just do a little interrogation. Why is it important for me to do this? What would it mean for me if I didn't do this? And because I think a lot of us, I think something like 75% of women in America, adult women in America dye their hair, right? I'm wondering, right. Up until two years ago, I was too. And I think, for me, I was dyeing my hair, not at first was just because that's what's done like it was it felt to me like that was part of cake. Right? Totally. That's what you do. Right? And it wasn't until I was doing it like every six weeks or so I was like, Well, do I really need to spend this kind of money like
Katie Fogarty 17:32
and time and time? I mean, like time is like the most valuable commodity these days?
Karen Walrond 17:37
Absolutely. And so, really, and like what would happen if I didn't as it turns out, I like my hair better now. And it's salt and pepper stayed than I did when it was black. But I would have never really, like questioned it. Had I not been writing the book or think, you know, we're really running out of money and time, like you said, but sort of thinking like, what does it mean, if I let that happen? And also, what if I do, I can always go back, like, you know, like a tear I can I can always go back. So let me just experiment with it. And really sort of, like question how we do that. And then the third thing I would do is, like, I think one of the things that we don't do enough of and I'm actually in the process of exploring this for a new book, is the idea of what something new I can learn. staying curious and really sort of what's something new, I can try? Maybe once a month, maybe once a year. Recently, I tried surfing, which is a whole funny story that will go into the next book. But what are some of the things that I can keep learning and keep trying and keep expanding? Right? We talk about aging in the book we over and over and over again, the people I interviewed kept using the word expansive, I feel it, life is more expansive, the way I dress myself is more expansive, the way that I think about my career is more expansive, like that just kept coming up. And that felt like a real key to how people continue to feel really vibrant and, and playful and curious and all the things that we all really want to have. And so I would I would do that. I think especially as we get older, especially as we have families, we start to focus on people other than ourselves. Right, rightfully so. But I think it's also really important to focus on ourselves even you know, while we still have children while we you know, while our children are still in our home or anything else because we model what it means to live a vibrant life for the people around us. Yeah, absolutely. We're
Katie Fogarty 19:37
like lending a hand backwards to the generation coming up behind us and pulling them forward and saying that you can age with vibrancy and all you know joy and all that good stuff and healthy and absolute well in fit, you know, because there a lot of myths around you know, aging is sort of this like inevitable slide and you know slide into decrepitude. But I love those two tools that you offered you know, for our listeners one ask why why do I believe this? Like, do I even believe this to be true that I need to dye my hair that I need to be young that I need to be wrinkle free? For many of us? The answer is no. I don't believe that. And to stay curious, learn new things, expand your your world, your skill, set your community be with new people, I think that learning new things, to me at least is truly the key to you know, aging vibrantly, because absolutely, you know, just being interested in having a reason to get out of bed every morning like acquiring new skills. It's, it is such a, you know, adrenaline shot. So I you know, thank you for those two offerings I'm going to offer some ideas for for the listening audience today as well, I, I think the importance of doing a certain kind of social media detox, you know, one of the one of the guests that came on my show, Dr. Amanda Hanson, who goes by the social media hashtag, the midlife Muse shared this idea, and I've really attached myself to it, you know, make sure that you are in conversation in your real life, but also on your social media, with accounts that make you feel supported and seen, you know, absolutely, absolutely. I
Karen Walrond 21:16
think, you know, I think sometimes we forget that with social media, we have a lot of power, and we don't have to follow the stuff that's
Katie Fogarty 21:24
like making us feel bad. You're right, like all this sort of anti aging feel
Karen Walrond 21:28
good, right? I mean, my social media stream and, and I am, you know, I am one of those people that I do a lot on social media, My job requires me to do a lot of social media, but also I like, I'm happy to put down my phone, especially when I'm with other people. But if you were to go through my feed, it is just a joy party, right? Like, that's all I ever and if anybody says or does anything that makes me feel like uncomfortable or wrong, honestly, it's gone I get my news, other places like it is it is there to support me. I think that's such a great point.
Katie Fogarty 22:00
It is and I love that you have a joy feed. I feel like I'm going to ask you later, but some who some of those people in that joy feed because we all need more joy in our lives. So that's, that's, that's a great hack. So you know, in the book you chronicle you know, a series of experiments really, that helps you rig out you know, rebel against this notion that aging is a time of dwindling capacity. You know, rebel against convention, you've already talked about one you let your hair go gray, you know, Clairol is not happy about that. You also offer like really kind of fun, playful activities that you've pulled into your life like you now hula hoop for exercise, which you literally like I see you on social media and I'm like, I need to get myself a weighted hula hoop. Because Karen makes that look
Karen Walrond 22:41
so cool down. It's actually it's it's usually the thing that I do at the end of exercising. It's my little sort of joy play. Yeah, it's super
Katie Fogarty 22:48
fun. And you also you just sort of alluded to it you took up surfing, you tried surfing, I know that you and your husband want to try sailing as a as an activity sort of for couples activity to kind of counteract the and get the empty nest. But you also connect and interview a lot of women who are engaged in their own radiant rebellion. Is there something that popped out to you that you've sort of pulled into your own life that you can you can offer up to our listeners something that really helped you feel radiant during this process of writing the book?
Karen Walrond 23:21
Yeah, um, it's so funny. You said you know, like, you mentioned hula hooping and surfing. It makes me sound so athletic. I am the most athletic or an athletic person, you know, by the way, like this is my younger self is laughing at at this thing at this podcast right now that I'm doing any of those things, right.
Katie Fogarty 23:40
Like you can be a new person, you don't have to be the same person you were yesterday, right? Absolutely. Can be somebody who tries to athletic well,
Karen Walrond 23:46
so one of the people that I interviewed was a woman by the name of Statius of ASIC and she is a style activist, right? She talks about how to dress to feel your most you so it's not about trends. It's not about like doing your colors or anything like that. She is very much about how when you put on clothing, how does that make you feel and if it hurts your feelings, take it off. Your body is not the problem right? Like your butt like size like sizes differed from manufacturer to manufacturer, and you've just got to let that go and your body is not the problem.
Katie Fogarty 24:27
I have a couple of things hanging in my closet that hurt my feelings and I'm getting ready now. I don't know Jesus you're not doing
Karen Walrond 24:35
and I think she probably is the most taking her advice is probably the most visible thing that I've done. I think before maybe three or four years ago. I wore primarily black Navy and gray and I will admit to you that my did that mostly because I heard those were slimming. Ah, which one that To nuts and to, like, Why do I want to be smaller? Like, why do I want to be like I don't I want to take up space I want to be I want to I want to be somebody who people notice I don't want to get shrink, right? I that shrinking is not my thing. So since then, and the other end, the truth is I love color. Like I buy a house, if you paint my house, it's an explosion of color. There's color everywhere. So what was this nonsense about me wearing black all the time when clearly color was something that is that I love, and I love to be surrounded by. So So yeah, so now I wear lots of bright colors. Like I won't wear pastels. I wear everything. I come into a room and I come screaming into the room. Right now I'm wearing an orange dress that isn't a peacock. That pattern. It's loud. And it's crazy. And yeah, so that's probably one of the things that I'm not again, I'm not telling everybody that they need to do that. But that's the stuff that gives me joy and dress. It really does change my outlook in the day when I wake up in the morning. And I think, how do I want to show up today? How do I want to feel? Sometimes I want to you know, I wear more muted colors because I I'm feeling tender maybe and I just wanted to kind of feel comforted Sometimes i wear just crazy loud colors. Because I want to I want to make a statement. So I love that I'm sort of thinking about that. And how how do I want to show up was probably the funnest, easiest thing that I could do. That's actually probably pretty visible to other people as well.
Katie Fogarty 26:26
It's such great imagery, and I love to dress with color as well. i It's so funny that you mentioned the black thing. I grew up in New York City. I was like in New York teen you know, sort of sneaking in and out of nightclubs and like Black was the you know, you wanted to wear black everyone was wearing black and I remember when I was young I grew up you know, we're the same age basically. But like my mom would I had to like get older to wear black. My mom was a little kids didn't wear black. And so it felt like by the time I was 13 I'm like I'm only wearing black. And I haven't worn I barely ever wear black anymore. I just love color. I feel like I've really taken that on.
Karen Walrond 27:04
It's funny like, you know, there are some people who love black and that's all they were and and they love it because they love black. And I think that's great. And they like me, by the way. Yeah, I've fallen back in love with gray. Like I like how gray looks on me now because my hair colors different. And so that's been really interesting also is just to sort of see what's changing, like how I change how does that impact? How I want to dress as well. Right? Like it's sort of interesting that that that makes a difference.
Katie Fogarty 27:34
Yeah, it's a great question. How do I want to show up in the world and I you know, I want to show vibrantly, absolutely love that care. And I want to switch gears for a minute and ask you about something that's in your epilogue, you shared at the beginning of this show, and you share the beginning of your book that you've been optimistic about aging, you know, mostly, and then your epilogue, you write quote, now that I've written this book, I find I am even more so what in writing this book teach you specifically about like in sort of connect with your DNA about how you feel the sense of optimism around aging? What's sort of your biggest takeaway? Well,
Karen Walrond 28:11
there were a couple I mean, first was that a lot of and I talked about this, at the very beginning of the book, there's a lot of myths around aging that we believe like we believe aging means that we're all going to end up in drooling, you know, in a home somewhere. And it turns out, that's not true that that a majority of people in America end up being fine, completely fine, cognitively fine, very, you know, a very small percentage actually end up in homes. And so Alzheimer's rates are actually dropping in the United States. So there were a lot of like, there was a lot of data that I think we worry about, and the data shows that they're not things to worry about. Overall, overall, right? I mean, obviously, there's sciatic things in in our personal histories, that's different. But overall, it were sort of fed a myth about how miserable it's going to be. So that was one. The fact that that I feel like a lot of the things that I went into this believing were validated, right, like I it was validated to me that let fad diets not only are bad for you, they don't make any sense because all of us have completely individual bodies and our individual bodies require different things for their health. Right. So you know, things like that, where I was like, I knew that was that had to be right. So there was a lot of they have lot of data and a lot of things that just sort of reinforced why I felt why I should feel optimistic about it. And, and I want to be very clear, I am not suggesting that there aren't going to be challenges to getting older. I think. The fact is that of course we're all going to face. It's called life. We're going to face challenges. I just think that we spend an inordinate amount of time and focusing on what could go wrong. And we don't spend enough time on what can go. Right. Right. And so I wanted to contribute something to the canon of what can go right about aging, first of all, and then secondly, I think that it's it's really important also to remember and this was also this was good for me is to trust your instinct, right? Like trust your own instincts about what feels right for your body, what feels healthy for you what feels like it sparks curiosity, what it is that sparks joy, and go after it. And it felt like a lot of the people I spoke to, for this book, sort of gave me permission to continue to do that. And that was really, really encouraging.
Katie Fogarty 30:42
I love that one of my favorite guests, Karen Ducasse, who was on my first season of the podcast, who became a published novelist for the first time she wrote her book at 54. I think it was published at 56. But she said getting to midlife means giving yourself permission, permission to go after the things that you want to to, you know, realize your hopes, dreams and ambitions. And I love that you gave yourself permission to feel great about aging. Karen, this has been such a fun conversation. We're moving into our speed round because I want to ask you a few more things. You can do this. I know that this is your newfound athleticism and you're gonna you're gonna rock this. We'll see. Let's go. All right. This is one to two word answers. Let's do it. Okay. All right. Writing radiant rebellion was
Karen Walrond 31:29
challenging, but encouraging. Nice. That's three words. Sorry.
Katie Fogarty 31:32
That's all right. That word? What is the skill or attribute that you have? Now that eluded you when you were younger?
Karen Walrond 31:41
Oh, goodness. open mindedness.
Katie Fogarty 31:48
What is something you've let go of in midlife?
Karen Walrond 31:53
self criticism.
Katie Fogarty
Nice.
Karen Walrond
Over self criticism, if that makes sense.
Katie Fogarty 32:01
Yeah. Totally
Karen Walrond
Being overly self criticizing.
Katie Fogarty
Yes. I am with you. I'm with you. Okay. Older is bolder. What is a bold move you've made recently?
Karen Walrond 32:10
I tried a surfing lesson. Oh my gosh. What was it st.
Katie Fogarty 32:17
Surfing is bold. I love it. We all need role models who is a radiant rebellion role model to you?
Karen Walrond 32:25
Oh, gosh, so many are the first person who I guess who comes to mind right now is is Sheryl Lee Ralph. That's the first person that came to mind. But there's so many amazing, amazing people.
Katie Fogarty 32:34
And how do you spell her last name?
Karen Walrond 32:36
Sheryl Lee Ralph. She's an actor. She's fantastic. She won the Emmy. She was part of… what is the name of the show with Quinta Brunson show? about oh, yes, yes. Yeah. We escaping
Katie Fogarty 32:52
…It's phenomenal. Oh, she the she the principal….
Karen Walrond 32:55
She's not the principal. She is the more experienced teacher….
Katie Fogarty 33:00
Yes. Always put together. Abbott Elementary, Abbott Elementary.
Karen Walrond 33:03
Yes, exactly. Abbott Elementary. So she's, she's she's fantastic. She wanted me for the role and she's just wonderful.
Katie Fogarty 33:10
All right, nice. I'll put that in the show notes. Who should? Who should we follow on social for radiant rebellion inspiration?
Karen Walrond 33:17
Oh my gosh, you how long you got Ashton Applewhite, for sure. And my sweet friend Karen Williams - K-E Williams on on Instagram. She's a model and an empowered aging activist and she's fantastic. And she's..
Katie Fogarty 33:33
Gorgeous. I follow her as well. I love that. Okay, you've written three books and you read many to write this one what is a Radiant Rebellion read we need to add to our to our TBR stack?
Karen Walrond 33:45
That's so hard.
Katie Fogarty 33:48
We'll pick any pick one that you like really? Like surprised you or?
Karen Walrond 33:52
Yeah, well, I you know what I think a radiant rebellion readis I gotta go with my friend Brene Brown her book Rising Strong, all about how to cultivate resilience. I think that's probably a really good one.
Katie Fogarty 34:02
Okay, phenomenal and I haven't read it so I'm putting it on my stack. Finally your one word answer to complete this sentence, As I age I feel….
Karen Walrond 34:17
radiant.
Katie Fogarty
Radiant. Perfect. I was waiting for expansive but radiant.
Karen Walrond
I almost said expeasive but radiant. Radiant is well is more accurate?
Katie Fogarty 34:22
Well, I love that and we all want to feel radiant and you and your book Radiant Rebellion: Reclaim Aging, Practice Joy and Raise a Little Hell, will focus us on what can go right in this process. And I thank you for bringing it into the world. But before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you your books and learn more about your work?
Karen Walrond 34:40
Oh sure. Come visit me at my website. It's actually called Chookoolonks which is a really hard word to say but KarenWalgrond.com will get you there. And that will point you to all the other places you can find me.
Katie Fogarty 34:51
Fantastic! All going in the shownotes. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Want more of A Certain Age this fall? We're going to have live events. That's right. We're getting out of the podcast booth and into the real world. And we want you to come hang with us stay in the loop by signing up for our newsletter AGE BOLDLY over on our website acertainagepod.com.
And before I say goodbye, a quick favor. I would love it, if you could take five minutes to write an Apple Podcast review. You can share something you learned on today's show or on a previous episode, or simply share why you tune in and make a certain age pod part of your week. Apple Podcast reviews really help the show grow. Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed our produce our theme music. See you next time and until then age boldly beauties.