Declutter Your Home + Headspace with Home Organizing Pro Shira Gill
Show Snapshot:
What if we can live a bigger, better life with less stuff? On this week’s show, home organizing pro Shira Gill shares tools, hacks, and strategies to clear the clutter from your home life and mind. Shira is the author of the NYT-bestseller “Minimalista,” her latest book “Organized Living,” offers inspiration and insider tips from the homes of 25 organizing experts from across the globe. We dive into the link between clutter and mental health, budget-friendly organizing tools, plus what’s worth a splurge. Bonus! Shira offers a reset on how to think about minimalism—stop thinking about it in terms of scarcity. Time to view minimalism as the practice of intentionally choosing belongings (or activities) that add value and meaning to your life. Yes, please!
Show Links:
Follow Shira
Shira’s Book: Organized Living: Solutions and Inspiration for Your Home
Quotable:
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to a certain age a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud beauties. You know, when someone says something and it gets stuck in your head, like really stuck years ago, it's my onchange downsize from a sprawling suburban home to New York City apartment. She told me, you spend the first 50 years of your life buying stuff in the next 50 years getting rid of it. I think about this every time I buy something. But what if it doesn't have to be that way? What if we can live a bigger, better life with less stuff? If you're ready to clear the clutter from your home life and mind, you're absolutely going to love and learn from today's guest. Shira Gill is a globally recognized Home Organizing expert and the best selling author of the book minimalist. She has inspired 1000s of people to clear clutter from their homes and lives and developed a process and a toolkit that applies to anyone, regardless of budget space or lifestyle. She is here today to share ideas from her latest book, organized, living, minimalist, organized living. Yes, please welcome Shara.
Speaker 1 1:10
Thank you. Thank you so much. That was such a fun intro.
Katie Fogarty 1:14
You know, I'm not kidding, I really think about this all the time. Because, you know, we live in a sort of a capitalist society, we're constantly accumulating things and I, I want to be more mindful about what I bring into my home and how I organize it. So I'm really super excited for this conversation. I know that your first book minima Lisa was a New York Times bestseller now you're back with your second book organized living, and it's based on a totally genius idea, you share a glimpse into worlds and homes we don't often get to see. I would love it if we could kick off by having you share the premise behind this book with our listeners.
Speaker 1 1:51
Yes. So organize living was this idea that I had on a walk a few years ago. I've been a professional organizer for nearly 15 years. And so I've had this interesting glimpse into the worlds and the lives in the homes of my colleagues, other professional organizers all over the country. And I just thought, you know, there's so many books like design books that highlight the homes of designers, and maybe architects, but I've never come across a book that shares the real homes of professional organizers. And I started thinking about how every time I go to one of my colleagues homes, you know, I'm snooping around and asking if I can peek into medicine under their kitchen sink. And, you know, I always would go home with some little tips and hacks and inspiration. And so I pitched this idea to my publisher. What if I travelled around the world with a photographer and I interviewed, my concept was 25 Different organizing experts that all had different homes, different philosophies, different aesthetic styles, different values, and could share this with my audience. And luckily, they went for it. And so I spent about a year traveling around the globe, with my friend and collaborator, Vivian Johnson, who's a brilliant interiors photographer, and essentially, I went on this kind of global search for the most organized people in the world. And I wanted to find people who could represent a really large swath of society. So I found people in tiny New York studio apartments, I found people in sprawling suburban homes, people who were single people with five kids. So I really wanted to present a very diverse and comprehensive view of what organization could look like. And that is what the book shares is it showcases all of the homes and the tips and the strategies from these 25 organizers. spanning from Mexico City to Lisbon to Paris to Brooklyn all over the US and Canada.
Katie Fogarty 3:57
It's such a gorgeous book, I so enjoyed flipping through it and I really love how you showcase, you know, all these different styles and these sorts of beautiful homes. I loved tinkerers which is so colorful when you walk into it. And I just I thought it was such a phenomenal way of seeing, you know, different practices and action. So you know, a question for you to share, because I know that the book showcases people across the globe, you've helped 1000s of people declutter their homes and lives and my question is I have a number of really close friends friendship is a big important value for me but of the sort of dozens and dozens of women that are really whose homes I've been in and who I'm super connected to. Only one of my friends is truly a successful minimalist and Jean if you're listening you're at you know, but it makes me wonder your why is being minimalist hard for some of us, you know, what kind of gets in the way of, you know, are they mental blocks, emotional blocks, is it just organizational bless it like Um, process blocks that help that get in the way with us living with less.
Speaker 1 5:05
Yeah, I love that question because I think but one of the big blocks is just this misconception about minimalism, that it's all about restriction. And it's about scarcity and taking away and removing. And really, it's about freedom. It's about saying no to the wrong things, so that you can create space for the right things. I really think of minimalism as being radically intentional. And so the brand of minimalism that I subscribed to, does confront excess and waste and the pressure to consume without limits. But it doesn't deprive you of the things that you love and value. So I think that's the first thing is just I see often when I even say to people, that I'm a minimalist, they almost kind of cringe and take a step backwards. They're nervous that I'm gonna make them break up with all of their things. Oh, my God, really? Yeah, it's not about that at all. It's, I think of minimalism as this tool to create, like abundance and freedom in your life by getting rid of clutter. And so everybody's definition of what clutter means to them is, is different and distinct, which is what makes this work so interesting. And so when I work with people, I always start by asking, you know, what phase are you in your life? What do you want to create space for? What do you want more of? And what do you want less of, and that really informs once you can clarify what you're going towards in your life, you can kind of quickly make sense out of the physical things that surround you, and if they are elevating your life, or they're detracting from your life. And so that's kind of the lens I like to look at minimalism through is, what are the things that are enriching your life and adding value? What are the things that are dragging you down? And just feel like clutter and distraction? What a
Katie Fogarty 6:57
gorgeous, yes, what a gorgeous lens to look through. Because this notion of abundance and saying yes, and bringing attention, I feel is just a theme of this podcast. You know, we have women on here every week who are saying yes to things that are elevating their midlife and saying no to things that no longer serve them, they may be breaking up with bad habits or changing relationships, or you know, so this is, I am so excited to learn that that this is the lens that you bring to this because one of the things that I would like to say no to is sort of clutter and disorganization, because I feel like you know, even though I'm a bit of a collector, and I do like my home to be organized, that there there are piles and things that just that get in the way. And I feel that it's super draining, and it brings your energy down. So you know, what are what is the cost of clutter and disorganization? Maybe before we get into? How do we tackle it?
Speaker 1 7:53
Yeah, absolutely. So I've seen in my work, you know, both the emotional cost, I've seen people who literally have gone through divorce because one partners, clutter is standing in the way of even the relationship functioning properly. I've seen clutter, just bombarding people's minds with excessive stimuli. And so they feel like their senses are constantly working overtime, on stimuli that aren't necessary or important. So it's just a form of constant kind of buzzing distraction. letter makes it difficult to relax both physically and mentally. So you know, our lives tend to be so non stop and buzzy with technology and how busy we are and how many responsibilities we're juggling. And then to come home and want your home to feel like a sanctuary, but really to have it feel like a bigger source of anxiety and stress. And that can actually lead to depression. I've worked with a lot of clients who have pointed out that, you know, the relationship between mental health and their clutter is huge. And there have been studies that link clutter with mental health challenges. So I've seen kind of the full range and gamut of that. And then I think clutter also inhibits creativity and productivity. You know, stuff, everything that we see we have to process and we have to, on some level think about and so it invades the open spaces that allow people to think and brainstorm and problem solve and, you know, simply put, it just gets in the way of living your best life.
Katie Fogarty 9:32
Yeah, it's so fascinating this link between clutter and mental health and an organization and productivity we are heading into a quick break but when we come back, I want to get into some tools to help us you know, combat clutter and live with more intention in our lives and in our homes. Sure, we're back from the break when we went into the break we talked about the link between mental health and clutter, feeling you know confident and organized productivity you know Creativity, all of these wonderful things that happen when our lives and homes are humming along and not sort of bogged down with clutter and disorganization. So if somebody is listening to this and thinking I want exactly what Shara is talking about, like I want the freedom to say yes to things in my life and, and not be overwhelmed by what's going on in my home, you know, where do they begin? What what what would be a tool that you would offer them?
Speaker 1 10:28
Yeah, so I have a few things to offer. So number one, as I already mentioned, is just getting clear on what you want, so that you have a compelling vision that will anchor you because most people, you know, myself being the exception, do not enjoy spending their weekends decluttering or slogging through piles of stuff. And I think the starting point has to be a vision of creating something that's exciting. That's more exciting than that, that vision can anchor you and motivate you to actually spend the time decluttering. So, you know, for me many years ago, I realized that like my greatest joy in life is travel. And if I have less stuff, I can pack up easily, I can rent my house out to people, it will get me closer to the thing that I want. So starting with that vision is a must. And then practically, you know, I think that we're in such a consumer culture, and messages are constantly coming out of saying you need this thing, you need to bring this new thing into your home, you're going to be, you know, rich and successful and pretty if you buy X, Y, and Z. So one of the things that I have my clients do when we work together is just try a one month purchase, pause. And that just means saying no to anything that's not necessary. So obviously, you're buying groceries, you're replenishing shampoo, you can still go out to dinner and do all of the things you enjoy. But taking a one month purchase pause can actually be this kind of brilliant reset, where a you can start to notice, when your brain tells you, I must have this, I need to buy this. And you can start noticing what are your unique shopping triggers, we all have different ones. You know, for me, I know, I tend to find myself clicking and shopping, if I'm bored, or if I'm lonely, or if I'm restless or something deeper is going on. So just by pausing, you can start to kind of strengthen your relationship with yourself and take note of what am I trying to fill by shopping or consuming or even just notice habits that maybe aren't serving you like having, you know, an auto refill set on Amazon to constantly be replenishing products that you already have and don't need and you can cancel those subscriptions. Number two is identifying a donation center or charity or nonprofit or even individual who could really benefit from some of this stuff that is just creating clutter for you. So I find that often a big block for people when they want to declutter, they want to let go, but they can find reasons to justify keeping anything because it's useful. It was expensive, you know, that sunk cost fallacy. And so by identifying something kind of bigger than yourself, like maybe it's a local homeless shelter, or a battered women's shelter, or place for to help refugees, it can make it much easier to let go because it's in service of helping others. So finding an identifying at least one place in your local community that you feel really positive and motivated to help support can really be a catalyst to let go more easily and feel good while you're doing it.
Katie Fogarty 13:47
That's such great advice. And when my daughter who's now 23 was growing up, I would put aside all of her beautiful Christmas dresses and like snow boots and snow pants things and I would give them to my friend who was had a daughter two years younger, with exact same body type. So it was just there was a process that was built in I was eight like I knew where Grace's things were going. And so if you don't have that person in your life, there are organizations that can stand in and allow you to have a kind of, you know, system for moving things in and out of your home. You know, I'm curious, you talked a little bit a few minutes ago about how we live in this sort of capitalist consumer society. I think your idea of a one month purchasing pause is Jamia so I'm gonna see if I can take that on for myself because we're in like September and it's like that season and you know of like purchasing as we change. Yes, as we change seasons, all of a sudden you're being bombarded with like you need this sweater and you need to get out this and the other thing. So that's a wonderful recommendation. But you know, I think in America we are constantly marketed to so it is challenging. Your book is global. You focus on organizing experts across the globe is the challenge around consumption uniquely American and or is this something that sort of globalized now did you see a cultural difference around consumption and organization when you, you know, took your journey on the road for this book?
Speaker 1 15:14
Yeah, you know, I really I saw some huge disparities, it was really interesting because everyone I interviewed in the United States, you know, was just like, Oh, my God, the overconsumption is insane, you know, it's rampant, everybody's acquired more than they can keep up with. And then when I went to Europe, it was, you know, organization, the profession is predicated on a culture that has acquired more than it can keep up with. And it was so fascinating, because the organizers that I interviewed in Paris and Lisbon and Stockholm, and London, they all said, you know, people don't really get this profession yet. They feel like this is something very simple that they should be able to do on their own, and there's much less of a consumer culture. So they said, there is still a lot of shame around not being able to be organized as a life skill, but much less. Was there an issue of kind of mass mass consumption in these other countries, including Mexico City, where I visited, and even to some extent, Canada, I would say, the US is certainly leading the charge with overconsumption based on my research and my interviews,
Katie Fogarty 16:29
yeah, it's so fascinating. I spent two years after college living in Japan. And, you know, in Japan spaces, it's such a premium, you know, the, the homes are very small. I was in an apartment, it's very small. It's, you know, several tatami mats wide and even your refrigerators. And I think it was the first time I'd seen such a tiny refrigerator is like, what is this thing, you know, and so you're, you're kind of shopping everyday for what you need for your food, you know, you're not, you're not, you're not going to Costco and coming home with enormous amounts of things. And you're the homes are small, so it really helps you, you know, only one thing can come in and things have to multitask. And so I do think where you live really impacts how you bring things into your space. But you know, in America, the homes are super sized, you know, you I don't even know how some people change their light bulbs, like their you know, the homes are gigantic. I'm like, like, this feels like a Holiday Inn not like a living room, you know, but
Speaker 1 17:31
yes, and I'll see that, you know, the homeless that I was in, in Europe, there are no basements or attics or garages. And so there's not really even the option of having this huge graveyard filled with stuff because you just have your, your living quarters, there aren't these massive storage areas or even, you know, offsite storage units, which have become so common here, where people are, you know, paying to store things that they've run out of room to store in their own homes. So that was, you know, it was almost baffling to some of the organizers who I interviewed abroad, they were like, what, you know, people are paying to store things not in their home.
Katie Fogarty 18:14
So they're probably like, all right, Americans are weird. To share. I'm quite, I'm curious, I want to switch gears from it and ask you about something. You know, we social media is such a big part of our lives here in the US, there's just this, you know, sort of almost like organization porn that happens on social media, where there's so many like perfect homes, sometimes I look at other people's pantries, and it makes me feel inadequate, you know, because everything's like labeled and perfect. And, and I kind of feel like my pantry is a hot mess. And this is not about me, it's about other listeners who might feel like, wow, like, you know, being organized sometimes looks like these to be really shiny. And I know that you You talk a lot about this, this sort of this narrative that women need to curate a perfect and tidy home to have it work, you know, well and to be doing it right. So I would love for you to walk us through a little bit about you know, why your system of organizing is different? Because I know that it is.
Speaker 1 19:10
Yeah, it absolutely is. And really like a big part of my inspiration for making this book was to be representative of people who don't have the Kardashian pantry, you know, or the rainbow color coded labeled plastic bins. But to show that organizing can work for everyone can work even if you don't buy a single thing. So you know, my system of organizing is really to simplify it and make it very actionable and achievable. And when you think about just the definition of organizing, it is simply putting similar things together and creating a designated home for each group of things. That's it. So that can look any way you want it to look. If you think about let's just give like a home Office as an example, if you group all of your pens together and you throw all of them in a drawer, you are in fact organized, you know where to find your pens, they're all centralized, it's up to you, if you want to elevate that system by investing in drawer dividers, or a cute little pen case, that is completely optional, and I call it elevating the space. So it's not organizing, it's a different step, it's, if you care to add a design or style factor or something to make your organizing more personal to you. I live in Berkeley, California. And so the kind of leading ethos here is all about sustainability. So it's really countered to my colleagues in LA where everybody there's kind of a Keeping Up with the Joneses mentality. And, you know, my colleagues report that their clients say, like, I want my pantry to look like this person's or this magazine, right? But it doesn't have to, like you get to customize how you want your organization to look and feel and function in your own home, you get to make and define those rules of what feels good to you.
Katie Fogarty 21:08
I love that distinction that you can be organized, you know, and you can be organized and elevated. So it doesn't have to look picture perfect to work well. And that I think that's such an important, you know, distinction that you made. And, and I love that. So, you know, you you talk about sustainability, you talk about the the sort of ethos of having less, you know, where do you land on something like The Container Store? You know, cuz sometimes I look at it and I'm like, Oh, my God, this exists because we like all have too much crap. You know, do you do? Do you do want to send people to buy certain things like what are some tools maybe, that that are helpful to have, or that you might even have within your own home that people are overlooking, that can be used to help them you know, get this, you know, sort of clutter and systems in place to make their homes hum and sing.
Speaker 1 21:59
Yeah. So you know, my practice is number one, you clarify what you want. Number two, you edit out all of the deadweight and the distraction. Number three you group, like with like, and you find a designated home. And then the final step, after you've edited after you've organized, after you've decided, where do I want this thing, or this group of things to live, is do I already own a vessel that would work for this function. So I always shop my own home and my clients homes before I run out to The Container Store. So an example would be you know, maybe you're organizing your closet, and you want to put all of your belts together, and you roll them all up. And you think, well, I need a vessel like a bin or a basket. So number one, I would ask a client, do you have a stray bin or basket or box or vessel that would work for these belts, the only time I go to The Container Store is if we've looked through their home and they don't. And in that case, I would take a picture of the belts maybe do a measurement of kind of the space they take up and go with that particular shopping mission, if you will. Likewise, you know, in a pantry, maybe you want to decamped all of your staples into jars. Most people have like a mason jar or a jam jar or a tomato sauce jar that can be rinsed. It's up to you if you want to go invest in all matching containers and buy labels, right? Like that's totally optional. The biggest organizing mistake that I see is people running out to The Container Store or any, you know, store that sells containers thinking that buying more stuff is going to solve their problems. organized. Buying stuff does not get you organized, buying stuff can help you elevate your organizational systems, once you already are organized. And that's an important distinction to make
Katie Fogarty 23:52
it totally ensure you make it sound so easy. First of all, I love the 1234 And I'm like, it feels doable, you know, but I will say sometimes I feel like I'm living with people who get in my way. And when I say who get in my way. I mean, my husband I'm like why are we hanging on to this like thing, you know, are my children because, you know, the people that we live with sometimes comes with a lot of stuff like, Do you have a tip or tool or piece of advice you would share with a listener whose family or cohabitants may be getting in their way?
Speaker 1 24:25
Yeah, and I would say that's the most universal problem and it's one that I face. So you know, I have a husband and I have two teenagers and I have a dog and not everyone is aligned with my philosophy of minimalist living. So I think the big thing is that I want to stress nagging it guilting and shaming never work. I have learned that the hard way over the years, it just doesn't work. It's not effective. So what I have found works really well is taking ownership over the organization that you want to see. So if you are a person who really He thrives with a tidy organized, home, taking ownership over that telling your family, this is important to me, I'm going to do the lion's share of the work, I'm going to set up these easy systems, I just want you to help maintain them. That's it. So like an example is, you know, my kids and my husband used to come in, and kind of throw their shoes in their jackets in their mail all over the place, I realized we need a better system, I had hooks installed, I got a big floor bin for shoes, I got a big vessel for mail. And I said, Listen, when you come in, all you have to do is drop and plop, it could not be easier. I've made it like a kindergarten classroom, I just asked for you to respect the system. So that's what I found to be really effective is kind of taking that leadership role. The other thing that I'll say is often when people feel overwhelmed by clutter in their own homes, they start kind of turning to other people and blaming them before they've actually tackled all of their own things. Gosh, so you know, you've got to take the lead on doing your own paperwork, your own memorabilia, your own clothes, your own books, and office supplies, do all of that. And sometimes just leading by example will have you know, that kind of effect of other people noticing and wanting to jump in.
Katie Fogarty 26:21
Yeah, I may be guilty of that I may be guilty of like being annoyed by everyone else's failure to drop and plop and then you know, you know, screw it up myself. I actually literally just texted my family at the end of the summer picture of all the cage, the dishes in the kitchen sink, I texted it, and I said this is unacceptable. And then like two days later, whose dishes were in the sink, you know, and my son, my six year old son was like, Mom, and I'm like, Oh my God, you know? So we too have to walk the talk and and and you know, but I love this notion of leadership of really sort of saying, you know, if walking in the front door and seeing things flung all over stresses me out, you know, I'm going to organize it and then I'm going to invite the people that that I share space with to get on board and respected and I think that's that's such a wonderful coaching. Sure. Have you always been organized? Or is this something that like you picked up in midlife? Did it take becoming a parent and having all the you know, Kid clutter come up in your life? How did you get into this type of work?
Speaker 1 27:24
Yeah, I mean, so I My parents divorced when I was very young, and I had split custody between two homes where I dragged my stuff back and forth every other day. And I actually think at the root of my, you know, control enthusiasm.
Katie Fogarty 27:42
Oh my gosh, first of all, I'm taking that on I love that control. And Soozee Azzam This is a great rebrand for control freak, which sometimes I feel like.
Speaker 1 27:53
So, yeah, I think that, that, you know, the feeling of lack of control and the feeling of having to constantly be, you know, dragging my things back and forth and managing stuff. That's what I really, you know, my armchair psychology opinion on it is that stuff became really oppressive to me. And so the way that I kind of internalized freedom was having less stuff to deal with. So I do think that, you know, my minimalist tendencies were kind of born out of early trauma and disruption. And that, for me, creating order and an environment that felt good and tidy and even beautiful, gave me the sense of feeling of I have control in a world that doesn't have a lot of control. And, you know, even during things like, you know, huge events, like the pandemic, I think, I looked around, and I said, Well, there's so little I can control right now, but I can make my home feel good, they can make my room feel like a sanctuary. And so I think it became something that was a tool that I use to empower myself, and then it became such a joy to start helping other people. And I think, you know, before organizing really was a career, I was always helping the people in my life, you know, even as young as like a kid or a teenager, let's go through your stuff, like, let's clean out your closet, I always kind of had this ability to re envision a space and see how it could be improved. So it was kind of an accidental career. Really, yeah.
Katie Fogarty 29:24
But you know, that's sort of a theme that I saw in your book, you know, when you spotlight all of these different organizers, and not only you showing pictures of their beautiful home and learning about their systems of organization, you ask each one as sort of a series of questions. And, and that theme of I got into organizing because I wanted to, you know, instill order in a life or I you know, some other people share that they had a sort of maybe challenging childhoods and that that or, you know, organizing an order was something that was important for their mental health and well being and I sort of saw that theme emerge and And, to me, it makes so much sense. I know that when I walk in and my desk is a wreck, I feel instantly stressed out, you know, and when it's when it's in order, then I feel like I can be productive. I mean, I have observed firsthand that that sort of stress and disruption that comes when your physical spaces don't work well for you. So exactly, you're doing such amazing work, I just, I'm super inspired by it. And I'm also inspired to learn that you you know, that was like evolution like that you that you, you took what what you were learning in your childhood, and you turned it into something that you started off just helping other people, and then you turn it into career. And now you've turned it into books. And now you've turned it into like this sort of global community around it. So I'm so excited that you've been here today talking about your book. And we encourage everyone who's listening, if you don't already on minimalist, and you might because it was a New York Times bestseller to look at organized living because it goes beyond simply organizing tools, it goes beyond beautiful home photos, it really is just like a wonderful peek into processes and, you know, techniques that are that are shared across the globe. So thank you so much for being here.
Unknown Speaker 31:16
Thanks so much for having me. This was such a treat. It's
Katie Fogarty 31:19
so fun. We're moving into a speed round that we're not done yet. Because I have more questions to ask you because I want your I want your tools in my life. So we're going to this is just one to two word answers and allows us to get a little bit more of your thinking before we wrap. So are you ready?
Unknown Speaker 31:34
I'm ready.
Katie Fogarty 31:34
I feel like I might know the answer to this one. But I'm curious bins or baskets. baskets. Can't live without organizational tool.
Unknown Speaker 31:46
Hooks hooks.
Katie Fogarty 31:48
I didn't see that one comment. Okay. favorite, favorite, favorite space to organize in a client's home? The closet hands down nice favorite space to organize in your own home. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 32:02
my kids rooms when they'll let me
Katie Fogarty 32:06
I do that when they go to summer camp. I sneak in there. I get under that bed. We get a lot of stuff hits the hits the trash bin. Yep. Surprise. This makes a great way to corral odds and ends.
Speaker 1 32:21
An iPhone case is a great drawer divider. Oh,
Katie Fogarty 32:25
oh my gosh. All right. Or that? I love that. Okay, this is like this is a great segue into this one organizing budget hack. This cheap and cheerful idea always works. Who
Speaker 1 32:40
I would say a letter organizer as a charging station like for iPads and iPhones and laptops. Any letter organizer you have that there like $1 at the dollar store is a perfect vessel to plop in all of those electronics and make a little makeshift charging zone. Fantastic. All right,
Katie Fogarty 33:01
how about this one budget busting organizing idea. This is totally worth the expense.
Speaker 2 33:07
Matching hangers. Okay,
Katie Fogarty 33:11
I love that. I have that show. I'm like sharing you and I have like we have a lot in common.
Speaker 1 33:15
We're like, it makes such a big difference. People are so resistant and I'm like go Treat yourself to one set of nice matching hangers and swap out those wire hangers and the old mismatched plastic and you will feel like your closets a boutique.
Katie Fogarty 33:29
Totally. I am so with you on this one. I'm glad okay. You may not have this one. But I'm curious dirty little clutter secret.
Unknown Speaker 33:38
Who um,
Katie Fogarty 33:40
I stole this from your book though because you asked somebody this. And that person I'm forgetting her name, but she fessed up so I'm wondering what's what's your dirty little clutter secret? Do you have one? I
Speaker 1 33:50
will I will just say that our basement is so gross that I don't venture into it at all. It's like an unfinished tiny little postage stamp basement and that's kind of where things get shoved to die. Okay. All right, eat my underground clutter secret.
Katie Fogarty 34:08
Everyone's got a clutter graveyard. But that's why we need you because you can help us work through it. So okay, this last question. Finally, your one word answer to complete the sentence as I age I feel I feel unstoppable. I have used that word myself. Oh my god. This. We have we have a lot in common but although not quite as organized as fewer shares this is such a treat. Thank you so much. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you your books and learn more about your work if they too want to experience control enthusiasm?
Speaker 1 34:45
Yeah, so the easiest way is just my website. She irregular.com has links to my books, my courses, my free newsletter, Instagram, all the things so I would say just head straight to the main hub, which is Shira hill.com.
Katie Fogarty 34:59
I love it. nice and organized. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you. This wraps a certain age a show for women who are aging without apology want more of a certain age this fall we are going to have live events and more fabulous giveaways and midlife resources to share. Stay in the loop by signing up for our newsletter age boldly over on our website a certain age pod.com. And before I say goodbye, a quick favor. I would love it. If you could take five minutes to write an apple podcast review. You can share something you took away from today's show with Shira or on a previous episode or simply share why you tune in and make a certain age pod part of your week. Special thanks to Michael Mann see me who composed and produced our theme music See you next time and until then age boldly beauties.