Addiction, Life in Hiding and the Freedom of Midlife Recovery with Laura Cathcart Robbins
Show Snapshot:
Does getting to midlife allow us to quit the things that no longer serve us? After years of hiding her addiction from everyone, Laura Cathcart Robbins was ready to leave her Hollywood power marriage and confront her secret pill addiction. In her propulsive, vivid memoir, Stash: My Life in Hiding, Laura invites us on her journey to sobriety, self-love, and a life rooted in serenity versus fear. We get into the intersection of race, privilege, motherhood, and aging with addiction and recovery and explore why midlife is exactly the right time to take charge of your happiness. Bonus, we talk recovery resources, including apps, the best “quit lit” books and why to meditate.
Show Links:
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Laura’s Book: Stash: My Life in Hiding
Quotable:
The older I got, the further the span grew between who I was and who I pretended to be….As an adult, I didn't need that. I didn't need that to survive anymore…It didn't feel safe to be entirely myself. And I think that was the scaffolding for my addiction.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:04
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. In the early 2000s, Laura Cathcart Robbins was a budding author had two young kids and was married to one of the most powerful men in Hollywood. She was also severely addicted to pills - to Ambien. When she decided to get sober she couldn't find any quit lit books that reflected her experience as a black woman. And her stunning and candid memoir Stash: My Life in Hiding, she fills that void, revealing how her race, self image, and privilege influenced her addiction and her eventual triumph over it. Laura is also the host of the popular podcast, The Only One in The Room, she writes and speaks on the subjects of race and racism, privilege, addiction and recovery, and divorce. She's a TEDx speaker, and the LA Moth Story Slam winner. She joins me today to talk not only about what it takes to save yourself from addiction, what it means to take charge of your happiness. Welcome, Laura.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 1:00
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Katie Fogarty 1:03
I am really excited as well. I have just finished your stunning book last night. I so enjoyed reading it. I was sad to close the book, but I knew I was gonna get to talk with you about it today. Thank you so much for being here. I'm going to ask you a question I know the answer to because I did just finish your book. But I would love it if you could share with our listeners, you know how long you've been sober. And what made you decide to capture your story in a book.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 1:34
So I'll be coming up on 15 years sober, I got sober in 2008. That's the year I concentrate on in the book. It's about a 10 month period during that year, and I was in, at the time in 2008, at the beginning of the year, I was in a high profile Hollywood marriage and I was losing a battle with really debilitating Ambien addiction. I had, had and have two sons, they were little then. And I had just been named the PA president at their school and been asked to join the board of trustees. And I made the decision, the very painful decision to get sober. And I am someone who didn't graduate from high school or go to college, I have always navigated everything through books. And I wanted to discreetly browse the shelves of my local bookstores and find a book about someone like me, who was going through something like what I was going through, and then from there, figure out how to navigate it. And I could not, I couldn't then. And a few years later, I didn't see any and you know, it just seemed outrageous to me that most of the books about, actually most of the books about addiction are definitely written by white women. But also about divorce. You know, you just don't see that many books on divorce written by women of color. And, and, you know, I was obviously going through both those things in the books on addiction that were written by black women usually included, like drug dens and prostitution and you know, just kind of a hardscrabble life and it's not my story. So in 2020, I made the decision that I was going to write the book I needed.
Katie Fogarty 3:38
That's such a powerful thing. And that's a theme that I hear from a lot of guests that come on this show that they created either the products or the resources or the or the books or the conversations that they needed that were absent. I had done some Googling and research I saw you run an article in Good Housekeeping that talks about the soberspace as being predominantly white. I just had a guest on a few weeks ago Tanmeet Sethi who wrote a book called Joy Is My Justice, which talks about how the wellness space is predominantly white. And she wrote her book in response to that being the only person of color in certain situations in circles, it's got to be very isolating. I know you share in your book that, you know, in your elementary school, you are often the only black student, you know, you are in the sort of white Hollywood powerbroker circle, even in rehab, you have the experience of being the only black person you know, I would love it if you could share a little bit more with our listeners, how that informed or if it did inform your challenges with pills and did it play any kind of role and your being able to get yourself back on track?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 4:51
Yes, I actually have Joy Is My justice on my desk right now.
Katie Fogarty 4:54
You're kidding. No.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 4:57
She and I have been in contact we're going to try had to do an event together.
Katie Fogarty 5:01
That's so amazing. She's wonderful. We had a, we had a great conversation,
Laura Cathcart Robbins 5:07
That's so good, I'll be sure to listen out for that. So yes, being a young black kid, you know, I was 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 in Cambridge, Mass. And during those years, I was the only black kid in my class always. And at times, during that time, I was the only black kid in my school. We were really poor when I was growing up, like welfare or food stamps, or but we always lived in nice neighborhoods, we lived in a, an upper middle class, middle class, black neighborhood. And, you know, the tiniest, like cheapest apartment in this neighborhood, it was really a duplex. And I went to private schools, because my mom just got me scholarships and supplemented with by asking other people in our family for money. And so I had this this dual experience right away, where I knew that there were certain things that I could do and say at school, that wouldn't fly back with my friends in my black neighborhood. And, and vice versa. So it didn't, it didn't feel like it came at a cost to me, I just learned really quickly how to edit myself. And like, okay, this is, you know, I can move this way here, but I can't move this way here. And if I talk like I do at school, I get accused of talking white, and, you know, when I'm at home, and vice versa, not in my house, but in my neighborhood. And, and so, you know, the other thing that that became really clear to me was that I was the representative for black people, for all my white friends growing up, they didn't socialize with any other black people. So everything that black people were was me. And so there was this immediate kind of understanding that I needed to be as good as or better than them. Because otherwise, the perception would be that black people are less intelligent, that they are, you know, whatever it might be, if I wasn't, I was already poor. So I had that going against me. I didn't want to have any more strikes against me. And it was a it was a subtle understanding. I wasn't conscious of it all the time. It was just something that I did. And carry that with me into my teenage years. And my, my young adult years, I found myself, you know, when I entered the workforce, again, as the only I was either the diversity hire or this happened to be the token in wherever I was, I was rarely in the company with other black people at work. And, and that was okay. I didn't really mind that. I didn't feel I never felt like people were bigoted toward me. Or, I guess that's it. I didn't feel like people were bigoted toward me. But I certainly felt fetishized most of my most of my life by by the white people, or the dominant culture, whatever that was in my life. And accepted because I was exceptional, but not because I was just me. And, and so you know, being a young mom, oh, 30s Mom, but I felt like I was young.
Katie Fogarty 8:34
Yeah, that's yeah, that's young. And I had my first baby at 30 and I remember going into the OBGYN office, and they're like, it's so nice to have a young mother and I was like, what? You know.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 8:44
Yeah, like, I didn't have a geriatric pregnancy, like a lot of my friends are having now I was, had both my kids before I was 35. And, and, and just, you know, waiting, like, trying to figure out how to be a mom, how to say, I didn't know anything about being a mom, not the babysitting kid. I didn't particularly like children. Before I had mine. And, you know, there was this perception of me and my husband at the time that we were like this perfect couple. And I just, and we were this obviously this intimate, not obviously, we were an interracial couple. He's white. And I just, you know, I wanted to make sure that that I held that perception that I created when, I wanted to make sure that I held what I thought was the perception of me that I created as a little kid that I was as good as or better than everybody. And, and so that took a lot of manipulating. When I found pills, that was part of the burden that I was trying to relieve myself of, like the living inauthentically was, was getting exhausting, you know, along with new motherhood Have two young boys, you know, having two kids under five is a lot. Mine were born one in 98 and one in 99. And, and pills really helped. I mean, I thought they were, thought they were so great because I didn't know how to show up for my life before them and then all of a sudden I could in the way that I wanted to. And so they really worked for me for a while the the Ambien that I was taking, I got a good night's sleep, you know, better than I'd ever had in my life. It was very seductive. And you know, it first it was like, I sleep so that I can be energetic, fun, you know, playful Laura during the day and have energy for everything. And then eventually, the year I write about all I wanted to do was sleep, like I just chased sleep, because that's where I want it to be. So it took a very dark turn for me, but the, you know, the, the using the pills, the the addiction was my way of coping with these disparities in my life, of who I really was and who I presented. And there was a burden on me in this leadership position at my kids school, I felt to represent all black people and, and not just like I was the only representative, I was the only person that they knew, socially or in the school community, so that they would base their opinion on black people, because, based on me, but I also had a voice where, where black people hadn't had a voice for a while. So I was literally like the representative, I would sit at the table and voice our concerns, and speak for my community. And that was a really powerful thing. But it also came at a cost and it was exhausting.
Katie Fogarty 11:55
It sounds exhausting. And this sort of the burden of feeling the need to live an exemplary life of exceptionalism is something that sounds so challenging, something that's hard to put down, and I can relate to how exhausting it is to have have young children and, and try to navigate all that. Laura, we're heading into a break. But when we come back, I want to explore a little bit more about this, this notion of duality that you talked about a few minutes ago. We'll be right back. Laura, we're back, you were talking a little bit about this sort of dual nature, you felt that you were living a life that wasn't authentically yours, that you had to sort of take on and have this role. And you know, from what I understand about addiction, and by the way, I will say I was addicted to cigarettes at one point and I had a sense of sort of shame. And I was hiding that from different people. So I can I when you talk about this duality of like, you know, people used to say to me, you look like a runner, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm a smoker. You hide things that you're ashamed of. And you but you you had these sort of these two lives, you were in this marriage where you felt like you weren't being your authentic self, that you were also alone in certain circumstances. And then you had this this other secret that you were hiding that you had, that you had this this issue with the pills, you know, do you feel that these two things sort of fed one another that you had grown up in a way that made you feel like you had to have a secondary life that allowed you to be better at being an addict? Were they related?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 13:33
I think they were absolutely related. I think that the way that I had to survive my childhood, because I mentioned the duality in my school community at home. What I didn't mention was that I had an emotionally abusive stepfather who just honestly, when I was myself, it just rubbed him the wrong way. And the way that that manifested in my house was violent. Violence, and not physical violence directed toward me, but but it might have made my home violent, when I rubbed him the wrong way. So in order to survive that, I did it myself with him as well. And I think that by the time I even entered my teenage years, I was so far away from who I was authentically, I didn't know the difference. But I think that living inauthentically and the you know, the older I got, the further that span grew between who I pretended to be or I don't know if it was just an act at that point. I don't think it was purely performative. I was just like someone else because I need it to be. I thought, you know, as an adult, I didn't need that. I didn't need that to survive anymore, but I didn't know that. It didn't. It didn't feel safe, to be entirely myself. And I think that was the scaffolding for my addiction. I think that, you know, I can look back now with all the work I've done in recovery, and pinpoint certain things in my life that were those, you know, very, like, if you looked in from the outside, you might not know the returning points, but they were for me, in the decisions that were made for me and decisions I made, that turned me left instead of right. And that was definitely one of them was the inability to look at, you know, through a therapeutic lens, or whatever it might have been, as a young adult, as, you know, an adult in my 30s of look at what, what, what was really going on with me and why, and kind of trace it to the causes and conditions. To see why I was the way that I was. I didn't do that I just continued to act in this persona that served me the best.
Katie Fogarty 15:53
You know, it's so interesting. When you're talking to me, you use the word persona, you know, I think of, and I'm thinking specifically to you talked about, you started the Ambien when you were having trouble sleeping, because you had two young kids that were keeping you awake, and you were you know, they were either up or you were worried about them. And the Ambien started off to be something that was additive and beneficial. It made you fun Laura, and gave you, you know, energized Laura, but then it took a dark turn. And it became something that's shameful, but we have, there's so many personas that we have in life, and sometimes they're, they're useful, you know, we have our work personas and our mom personas are different things. And, you know, do you feel that there is a room for separate personas? Or is it just better to be integrated? I'm not sure if this question is making any sense. But I think you know, when I think about like mom and society, it's like I for a while struggled as a young mom, because I felt like I should be doing it in ways that I saw. You know, there's, you know, pop culture makes, mothers are warm, and affectionate and perfect. And all this kind of stuff. And we measure ourselves against these false personas we find that we find ourselves to be lacking. And is it good? Is it getting older and wiser that makes us less harsh with ourselves? Or free for you? Was it recovery? Or was it you know, talk to me a little bit about my very roundabout question.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 17:20
Well, I think, first of all, Oprah says that, it was in her 50s and 60s that she discovered who she was, and began to really embrace it. And I completely agree with that. I, I don't know that if I had stayed in my addiction, I would have gotten older or wiser, honestly. So I think that I can't, they're conflated for me. The reason I'm 58 is because I stopped, I, you know, I went to treatment and got sober, I don't think I would have survived. Honestly, if I had, I don't think I would be much wiser if I were still in my addiction, I think I would still be living that, that shameful, you know, running from everybody hating life, and trying to manage and control everything. But I think that that, like, you know, these cultural enclaves that we have, like in black culture, I am one way with my black friends, I'm different than I am with my white friends or in foreign, you know, places where I need to show up for work. And it's not that I don't think comes at a cost to me, I really don't I think it's just code switching. And I think it's natural. I think that there's a language and a lexicon that my black friends and I use, there's a shared experience, you know, rooted in being black in America, which is a different thing than being black in other countries. And, and it's, it just, it gives us this this way to talk to each other, that is different. I think that that is you know, not just black people, like I said, any culture you know, if you look at like Jewish culture or Greek culture, there's, there's a way that we connect, I consider myself like an honorary Jewish person, because my kids are Jewish, and my ex husband was Jewish, and I spent so much time making Shabbat dinner and all these things while they were growing up. And I love that community there is a way in that community when I'm there, that I act and talk in a way that I doubt when I'm with my black friends or out in the dominant culture. So there's, I just I think that is comforting. You know, to be able to get with my black friends and take off a layer of what I have to wear out in the world. I think it's I think it's fun. I think it's like you know, like when you were like with the cool kids in high school. I never was. I saw people.
Katie Fogarty 19:54
Maybe I might have been cool adjacent. I don't know.I won't use the word cool. But like I was smoking, so I was trying to be cool.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 20:04
That was really cool. Like, I never did that, that was super cool.
Katie Fogarty 20:07
I know, I'm joking. I am definitely joking. nothing cool about being addicted to cigarettes.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 20:12
No, no. And that's, I mean, that's a real addiction too. It's, it's one of those things like alcohol. Yeah. Where it's legal, and it's easily obtainable. But you know, you can't you can't get like, you know, think that this is something that you can put down easily just because it's sold legally.
Katie Fogarty 20:33
Right, exactly. It's one of the one of the, yeah, our society makes it easy to do things that that that are not good for you. Yeah, well, I want to ask you about something that you've heard in your book you first I love this word that you made up and it's called Shide, which is where you marry shame and pride. And that you said you kept your struggle hidden because of this, because of this notion of Shide, right, like I'm just too proud to ask for the help to begs what I feel so deeply ashamed about. And I think that's so great. And what you just talked about, we were talking about sort of code switching and personas that they don't come as at a cost to you it's okay to, it's okay to be different people, to be like, a multifaceted person that exists differently in different spaces a little bit depending upon where you were than who you are. Because it doesn't cost you but shide does cost us. And I think this is such a phenomenal word that I'm glad you brought into the lexicon. Do you feel that your recovery has made it any easier to ask for help? Because that, you know, going to rehab is is a gigantic immersion experience and becoming vulnerable and asking for help? Did you come out of recovery as somebody who is you know, sort of rejecting shide has it become less of a factor in your life?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 21:57
Yes, for sure. But, I dont make decisions,
Katie Fogarty 22:01
Sounds like there's a but there.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 22:05
Well I, my, the way I live my life is I do my absolute best not to make decisions based on fear. And I really try to make decisions that are going to, you know, evolve me and even if they're uncomfortable, I'm one of my biggest fears is discomfort. I'm just, and I don't mean, I don't mean that lightly. But anything that might create discomfort for me, I've avoided all my life. And so it took me a while to see that that was one of my biggest fears. So I, the way that I am, my recovery is my serenity, its freedom. That's what it is for me. And the way for me to keep it is to one not make decisions based on fear. And to be really honest, rigorously honest, not just cash register honesty, but that vulnerable honesty about what's going on, which is an uncomfortable place for me. So I, I don't automatically, you know, do what is right for me, what will what will make, let me see how I can phrase this, I don't automatically do the right thing, when I know I'm going to be uncomfortable, or when there's some discomfort involved. But I've learned to pause long enough so that I don't kneejerk myself into doing the wrong thing. And then having to either make an amends or do you know, have remorse for what I did. So I I still have shame. I still have a great deal of pride. But I try not to let them rule my life. And the way that I do that is that pause. Sometimes I take 24 hours before I take an action on something that has hurt me. When I feel slighted when I feel exposed. Before I take an action on it. I will take a 24 hour you know just reflection period and then decided the action that I still want to take. Do I still want to take that action? Is it the best action for the situation and for my serenity and my freedom? And that's a lot of work. I know that sounds like a lot of work. It doesn't stop it doesn't feel like that anymore.
Katie Fogarty 24:11
No, it sounds incredible. Honestly, this this, no really it does this rigorous honesty is something that I have gotten a little bit better at in my own life and I feel like I could continue to practice it. I do think getting to a certain age makes you more rigorously honest, but it's not easy. And this 24 hour pause is something that, it's such a powerful way of of managing yourself through the world. You know, because that knee jerk reaction I think our society really encourages, there's just you know, your everything's go go go go and rush rush rush rush and to protect your serenity require some times more rigor.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 24:58
Yes. And that's not to say that I don't ever, you know, act in the moment because I have for sure, but I do my best not to, I do my best to give myself the gift of that. So that I don't engage in behavior that brings me closer toward, you know that Ambien or the warm swig of vodka that I used to wash it down with. I tried to take actions that bring me closer toward that peace and serenity and joy. Like I live a really joyful life. I love my life, I'm so grateful, all the time, I try to stay generous and curious, and ingratitude. Because I get to live this life, that is incredible.
Katie Fogarty 25:40
It's such a gift to like, again, sometimes I think like, we, you went through something that was so so hard, you know, your the book opens with, you know, a grand mal seizure that you had at one of your children's sports events, because your body was reacting to either withdrawal, withdrawal of Ambien, and just like the physical challenges, you went through the emotional challenges you went through of having to leave your home, fly across, you know, several states to go to rehab, and just all the courage and all the physical challenges it took to, to rid your body of this, you know, stuff that you were addicted to. So you've done all the hard work. But, you know, we, anyone who's listening to this, who hasn't even experienced addiction has gone through something hard with a pandemic, we've all had to deal with, like, dislocation and fear, and sort of reorienting how we are in the world. And I think that there's something about just getting also to midlife, which is like, sort of a crucible of change. And, you know, again, like, I feel like my question is not going anywhere. Like, but I just, you know, I am so fascinated by, you know, what you went through and how you've how you've carved out this, this, this new life for yourself. And, you know, you at one point, say in your book, you master the art of hiding in plain sight, you know, it's right in the cover of your book, stash my life and hiding, you know, yeah, do you feel that getting sober has made you more visible and able to take center stage in your own life?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 27:19
Oh, completely. I mean, the way that I am sober, which is the 12 step recovery, there's, there's just kind of no way you're going to be so sober for as long as I am, and not have told your story. And I've told my story so many times, like, in, in a variety of rooms, to people I know really well, to people I've never met. And this that practice of it, which I hated, at first has, boy, it really worked for me. So it was, you know, like shame can't live or shame needs to live in the dark or something like that. That's the expression. So opening it up and shining a light on what I was ashamed of. One Night Only got me several me too's, not the hashtag.
Katie Fogarty 28:07
The good ones.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 28:08
But the good ones, like I know that feeling, or I have that experience. And two, like, I could write this book, and I can talk to you about it without retraumatizing myself. Because I don't feel that anymore. And it's not just the time, which helps. But it's the work that I've done as well I, you know, exposing it has made it so that it doesn't have a hold on me anymore.
Katie Fogarty 28:32
And so when you say work, if somebody's listening here who's thinking, you know, I would like to do some of this work, you know, I either really need, you know, rehab, I need to quit something entirely, or I want to modify or I want to help somebody in my life. You know, I know from reading the book that, you know, at one point you were taking, you know, nine Ambiens to make it through a night multiple to make it through a day. You've been sober almost 15 years, you know, what is the work look like? You know, what would you recommend to people?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 29:03
Well, you know, when I got sober, there weren't very many, there weren't many apps that bear, I don't think I didn't have a smartphone in 2008. I didn't have one until 2009. But there are so many different communities, different communities where we're one can go and get sober now. When I was getting sober, it was really kind of just 12 step recovery at that time. So that's one thing is that there are lots of ways to do it. You can do it from home, you can do it discreetly, you can do it one on one, there are sobriety coaches that can help. The way that I did it was I went to 12 step recovery meetings, I got a sponsor, and I went through the 12 steps, each one of them you know, required some writing and some some introspect, and, you know, really just this kind of years-long self examination, which, which helped, meditation helped with that for me. I meditate every morning and I work out every morning, as you know, because I told you I was going to be coming from a workout today. And, and that's part of my recovery, honestly. But also, just, like I said, going back through my, my, my life and looking at where all these things started. And without judgment, you know, oh, so I started hiding here at age five, I was a kid. Of course I did. It was survival that makes perfect sense. Now, do I need all these coping skills, you know, that I developed when I was five as a 58 year old adult? Probably not. Let's look at them, you know, and see which ones are useful, and which ones aren't. And the ones that aren't, then I start looking at how I can minimize my usage of them and hopefully, eventually eliminate them. So that I can live in a way that is freer, a life that I'm proud, of a life that doesn't include as much shame, or pain, or discomfort, because a lot of the shame, pain and discomfort came from me. my efforts to hide what was going on.
Katie Fogarty 31:05
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think like you'd said earlier, there's shame, like, you know, must, requires darkness, you know, to thrive and when we when we turn the spotlight on it when we just oh, you know, when we share when we say things like, I had menopause, you know, painful sex, dry vagina, everyone's like me to immune to this is like, I'm thinking of just conversations that I've had that I like, you know, I used to sort of feel reluctant to talk about now. I'm like, hey, like, how long do you like, how's your vagina? Yeah, like, like in conversations because it's, then it normalizes things. And you know, and people are suffering than they share. And you can get help and information and you don't feel alone. And by the, when you actually share what's going on in your life, you discover you have a lot of company. And sometimes it can feel very lonely if you're just, you know, suffering, suffering alone. Well, you know, I want to ask you something about what your sober sponsor says to you in the book. And, you know, I want to end on this note, before we move into our speed round, because I think it's important. It's, this is a segue of sharing and, and not feeling ashamed, your sober sponsor says to you quote, you know, we are not bad people trying to be good. We are sick people trying to get well. And I just flagged this, because to me, it sounded like one of the best descriptions of addiction that I've ever heard. And I, you know, what do you wish that people who are not struggling knew about substance abuse disorders and what it's like to navigate and move through them?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 32:33
I think, I mean, you hit the nail on the head, I think that's the thing that I want to impart to people is that, you know, these decisions that are made during the throes of an addiction aren't choice, you know, there, there, it looks like choice. I mean, even me, you know, you know, four or five years sober, I found myself judging people for the choices they made in their addiction. And then, you know, shaking myself, like, what are you doing? Like, you know, you know, what that's about, you know, there is there's, we lose the power of choice. And, because, for sure, Katie, I would have chosen my kids every time if I'd had a choice. And we'd have never chosen to take another pill, over the possibility of losing my children. But it did feel like survival to me. I couldn't not do it. And, and it was, incredibly, it was excruciating to experience that, and I would swear off and say, I'm not going to look at my kids faces and be like, I couldn't do this to them. And then I'd be, you know, high and drunk, you know, by after I put them to sleep that night. So it for me, it wasn't a choice, the choice would have been my kids, the addiction took over. And it didn't let me make any choices. And I don't think people know that. And I think they also, I think a lot of people don't believe this is something that can be addressed medically. And it can, not, not entirely medically for some people like me, there needed to be other components. But, you know, I had to go to treatment to be medically detoxed. This wasn't something that I could have white knuckled through because of the you know, medical emergency that you described, that I have at the beginning. So these these are this is something that needs to be treated. And the people that are going through it need to be treated like sick people.
Katie Fogarty 34:40
Absolutely. You're you're reminding me I had a wonderful author on the show, probably a year and a half ago named Terry Cheney, who wrote three really phenomenal books on her struggle with bipolar disorder and, you know, multiple suicide attempts and she shared that people's misunderstanding about suicide is the siren song of suicide. It's a lie that your brain is trying to tell you that this is what needs to happen. And it sounds like pills, it's like, your body is being told a lie by the drugs that this is going to make you feel better. This is not something that you're able to do. It's not a decision. It's something that's happening that requires for you medical detox, for Terry, she required, you know, inpatient care and medicine that allowed her, you know, that allowed her body to stop telling her this lie, to end this sort of siren song that was being sung to her.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 35:44
I mean, that's real. It's absolutely real, and it's your brain. And there's a whole science to it, what your brain does, once it's addicted to a substance or anything, actually, it could be gambling or sex or shopping. The Pathways change, you know, different different things or have been bludgeoned in, like different neuron, neuro neural pathways have been bludgeoned, and different ones are activated. And you get this really reptilian brain instead of the brain you were born with. And it's a hard it's a hard thing to change back, you know, to ungroup those pathways.
Katie Fogarty 36:21
Well, I 15 years is such a milestone to be proud of. And this book is just a gorgeous offering to the world. So thank you for writing it. And thank you for coming on today to to share your story. We're going to close with the speed round because we're near the end of our time. This is just one to two word answers so we can learn a little bit more about you before we say goodbye. Writing stash was:
Laura Cathcart Robbins 36:45
So much fun.
Katie Fogarty 36:47
The first time you saw stash out in the wild on a bookstore shelf, it felt:
Laura Cathcart Robbins 36:53
Exhilarating, and surreal.
Katie Fogarty 36:55
Nice. This is a must read book. What are other books that you think examine addiction in a helpful way?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 37:03
Quit like a woman by Holly Whitaker, who is my dear friend. But it is it is the Bible for Quit Lit. is the book that started Quit Lit. I would I think it's like mandatory reading for everyone because it deals not only with substance use disorder, but it deals with big alcohol and how they work in our country or in the world and just really important stuff. And I would also say Heavy by KSA layman who is an incredible black American author, Southern author who writes about food and gambling addiction in a way that I've never seen someone from his gender write.
Katie Fogarty 37:45
It will put both of those in the show notes. This sound phenomenal. I know that Ambien no longer helps you sleep. What activity or lifestyle hack helps you hit the pillow? By the way, I need this answer because sleep is the Holy Grail for midlife women.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:04
It's so silly. I play Words with Friends at about 10:30 every night.
Katie Fogarty 38:09
I love it.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:11
And I ended up getting sleepy. And as soon as I get sleepy. I quickly like get under the covers and lay down and wait for it to come.
Katie Fogarty 38:20
I love it, any kind of sleep...
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:21
But I do. Yeah.
Katie Fogarty 38:22
Any sleep hack works. I'm a big eye mask person. That's that helps a little bit. Okay, um, I know you've wrote this book. Um, do you believe in writing classes? Yes or no?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:33
Yes. I'm teaching two. I don't really believe in them.
Katie Fogarty 38:35
Oh. those are going in the shownotes. Okay, right writing groups. Yes or no? Do you work with a group lately?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:41
I've had the same one since 2016.
Katie Fogarty 38:43
Nice. Do you write longhand or with a computer?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:46
Computer.
Katie Fogarty 38:47
Okay, finally, your one word answer to complete this sentence. As I age I feel:
Laura Cathcart Robbins 38:54
Hopeful.
Katie Fogarty 38:55
Hopeful. Very nice. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you, Stash: My Life in Hiding, and follow your work?
Laura Cathcart Robbins 39:02
Thank you for asking that. I live mainly on Instagram, on the socials, that's @LauraCathcartRobins - that's cath, cart, Robbins with two b's one s - and TheOnlyOnePod.com. That's our website. It's for the Only One in The Room podcast and you can find everything on me on that site, including the book.
Katie Fogarty 39:30
Phenomenal. Thank you, Laura. And speaking of Holly Whitaker, who wrote Quit Like A Woman, I flagged this as well. She calls Stash: My Life in Hiding an irresistibly delicious story that will sit in your bones and write over your memory like it happened to you. I know I will not forget this book or this conversation. Thank you for being here today.
Laura Cathcart Robbins 39:48
Thank you.
Katie Fogarty 39:49
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Want to hear more stories of women making the most of midlife? Come follow the podcast sister account over on Instagram. You can find it @LetsAgeOutLoud. Have a story that you want to share. We would love to feature you please head over to @LetsAgeOutLoud to submit your story at the link in bio. Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly beauties.