Midlife Female Hair Loss is a Real Thing. Dr. Mary Wendel Has Ideas to Prevent and Reverse Age-Related Hair Loss
Show Snapshot:
Nope, you aren’t imagining it. Thinning ponytails, widening parts, excessive shedding, more visible scalp, even patches of total hair loss—aging and menopause can do a number on your hair. Meet Dr. Mary Wendel, an expert in female hair loss and the founder of Medi Tresse, which offers hair loss prevention and treatment for women of all ages. We get into hair care nutrition and supplements, scalp massages, and rejuvenation tools, including lasers and plasma therapy. Plus, the role of hormones, heredity, and the surprising ways your hair care routine, and even your hairstyle, can cause hair loss.
Show Links:
Follow Dr. Wendel
Email: Dr. Wendel has also offered her personal email for listeners who want to send her direct questions: mwendell@meditresse.com.
Quotable:
As our hormones change in the peri-menopausal timeframe, our good hormones for hair, our estrogen and progesterone tend to fall. And so with that, unfortunately, so does the hair.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Beauties, a quick confession before we kick off the show. I got not one but two haircuts within the past five days, just this week, this very week. I hated the first one, too puffy not enough shape, so I got a follow up emergency appointment a few days later with a different stylist at a different salon because I want to look in the mirror and like my hair, and I am not alone. The Women's haircare market in the US is billions and billions of dollars. Haircuts haircare hair dye hair products. We are generation Gee Your hair smells terrific, and we want it to look terrific too. Which brings me to my guest today. Dr. Mary Wendel is an expert in female hair loss and is the founder of Medi Tresse, which offers both hair loss prevention and treatments for female hair loss. If you are experiencing a widening part a thinning ponytail, more visible scalp, excessive shedding a receding hairline or patches of hair total loss. Or if you want to learn how to stop any of those things from happening to you. Stick around this show is for you. Welcome Dr. Wendel.
Mary Wendel 1:16
Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here.
Katie Fogarty 1:18
Well, I'm excited to cover this topic with you. I've spent some time on your website, I read some of your blog posts. I know that hair loss prevention is not only a professional issue for you, it's a personal one as well. I would love if we could just start with some stage setting how and why did you develop an expertise in treating female hair loss?
Mary Wendel 1:38
Well, it's actually been a very interesting journey. I am a board certified internist, which means I did primary care for many decades. But from my own personal journey. My grandmother, my father's mother, had extremely thin hair and in her 60s was already wearing a wig. And when I was a little girl, I thought, well isn't, this is cute, she would let us play with the wig but as I got older, I realized this could be me. And it wasn't so cute anymore. And as I approached my perimenopausal years, I noticed my own hair beginning to thin. I always had fine hair, but I had enough of it, but it started to thin. So I sort of transitioned my work. As I retired away from my primary care practice, I spent more and more time with hair loss. And it became really much more than I expected. It was a real journey for myself trying to figure out what I could do to help myself finding out very early, you know, good 20 years ago that there wasn't much to offer. But now we do and it's taken a while for us to get to a place where we really can offer complete evaluation and treatment for women who are experiencing hair loss from a variety of causes. So it's been a long journey an interesting one for sure. Not a place where I thought I would be at this point in my life but it has helped me and I know we can we help other people as well other women every day.
Katie Fogarty 3:01
Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I'm sort of joking at the top of the show, you know about my haircuts and you know, looking in the mirror, but hair is such an integral part of how, you know, of identity of feeling, you know, beautiful it feeling presentable. And when people struggle with some of these symptoms that we talked about, you know, the receding hairline, thinning hair, you know, or even, you know, visible patches, it can feel so upsetting. So you share that you notice your own hair changed as you entered perimenopause. What role if any, does aging and menopause play and female hair thinning and hair loss?
Mary Wendel 3:36
It plays a huge role. We don't know all the reasons why hair loss occurs with women. You know, with men we know it's primarily driven by testosterone. We do know that for women hormones plays a huge role. Any woman who has had a baby knows how the hair tends to get thicker during pregnancy and then tends to shed after different birth controls can affect hair significantly. So we do know hormones play a role. So as our hormones change in the peri menopausal timeframe, our good hormones for hair, our estrogen and progesterone tend to fall. And so with that, unfortunately, so does the hair. And it's a gradual loss. And again, this is the most common cause of hair loss in women it's the medical term is called androgenic alopecia, you can tend to have a genetic predisposition to it as I did, some women come in and there's nobody in their family to talk about in terms of hair loss, but for many women, they know it's there. And so you have sort of inherited this tendency for it and then as our hormones change, then we start to see those changes occur usually in the early to mid 40s. And then beyond.
Katie Fogarty 4:50
Okay, so that's one of the most common causes of hair loss and we're gonna, you know, definitely explore prevention, treatment, rejuvenation all of the things that you do at Medi Tresse but what would be some of the uncommon causes for women to experience hair loss?
Mary Wendel 5:04
Yeah, it's a really good question we're in and we're seeing more and more of these more rare causes of hair loss. One of which gets a fair amount of publicity is alopecia areata, which is an autoimmune type disorder where the hair falls out very aggressively starts as small circles, but then can progress fairly rapidly to total hair loss. But it's usually patchy. It's gotten more press lately, which I think is a good thing. There are some treatments coming on.
Katie Fogarty 5:35
Is that what Jada Pinkett Smith had? Okay, because we all know the slap heard around the world.
Mary Wendel 5:41
Yes, you know, nobody would say that that was a good way to handle that situation but you know, it is a very emotional problem. And women suffer greatly with it. Yeah, another type of hair loss we've seen more of is something called a telogen effluvium, which is just shedding. And that's actually what causes the hair loss after pregnancy, we've seen a lot of it with COVID, both due to the stress of COVID, as well as the actual illness of COVID can cause a lot of shedding and even the vaccine can cause some temporary shedding as well. So those are, those we're seeing more of. A much more rare form of something called scarring alopecia, which, again, we're seeing more of which is a bit frightening to me, again, another autoimmune disorder, which unfortunately destroys the hair follicle fairly quickly and needs very aggressive treatment very quickly. So we're seeing, you know, whether they're just coming more or this is really happening more, I think it's happening more, our lifestyle is crazy, we live a very stressful life, the last three years have been very difficult for so many of us. And that plays a role in our overall health as well as our hair health. So those are the kinds of things we're seeing on a daily basis.
Katie Fogarty 6:55
Yeah, that makes so much sense. We do live in a very sort of stressed out modern world, and it's not surprising that sort of stress related hair loss is increasingly more common. So if a listener right now is thinking, you know, my hair is thinning, or like my, you know, my scalp looks different, my part is different. If somebody wants to get an assessment, what do you recommend? Like who is your typical patient who walks through your door? When is it the right move for a listener to get a medical evaluation.
Mary Wendel 7:28
The minute you notice a change is really when you want to get checked. And up until recently, there wasn't a lot of attention brought to this problem, women would talk to their doctors, and they would sort of say, well, you know, the, the clinician might say, well, you still have a full head of hair, you have nothing to worry about, when in fact, that's exactly the time that you want to seek attention from someone who is an expert in this field, because we do know the earlier that you seek treatment, the earlier that you get the evaluation and we can determine a cause, the greater likelihood of success of all of these treatments that we do for all of these different diseases. The sooner you get treatment, the better. So unfortunately, I can't tell you, there are hundreds of women I've met with who have seen three, four or five different clinicians before they walk through my door. And they're frustrated, because sometimes it feels like nobody's paying attention, or nobody really cares. And it's a very emotional issue. And a lot of times the fear is what's going to happen to me in 10 years, what am I going to look like in five years. So you know, the fear is real and, and that's when you want to seek treatment. And so I would just say to women, don't get discouraged. Find a hair loss expert, that's who you want. And dermatologists can be a good place to start. But a lot of them don't have a lot of a hair loss experience, or, you know, it's minimal. And so, if you don't feel like you've been heard, find somebody else, reach out, do your research. And the good news is women are doing their research, they begin you know, they know where to look online.
Katie Fogarty 9:04
That's such great advice. This is great advice for anything beyond hair loss. If and we learn this on the show, if you feel like you are not being heard by your doctor when you go in to talk about you know, painful sex and drive vagina, sleep disruptions, you know, bladder leakage, a whole host of things, you know, there is help out there and you need to work with a specialist who is going to hear you and come armed with tools. Because most not most, but many of these things can be mitigated or prevented or eased. So Medi Tresse is on the northeast, you have several different locations. I'm putting links in obviously to the show notes. People can also Google Medi Tresse to find you on the east coast. But for my listeners who are across the country, if they were to hit the Google and look for a specialist, what do you recommend that they look for?
Mary Wendel 9:58
They really want to look for someone who, you know, their primary practice is is hair related. And the majority of hair loss experts are dermatologists. I'm not a Certified Dermatologist but I've spent the last 15 years doing research in this field. And I will tell you that I know many hair loss specialists throughout the country that we've met at conferences, and educational programs. And so I can refer people to almost every major city in the country, I will tell you during COVID, because of the emergency, I was allowed to see patients out of state, and these rules vary from state to state, but those emergency protocols are gone. So I can't, but I can refer you to people outside of the northeast area, who I know are good at what they do, and really care about it. So I will tell you that if you if you live, you know, not in the northeast area, and you're looking for information, and you're not sure about what you're seeing online, you can Google, you can email me, and you will have that information at the end. And I can help you find somebody where you live.
Katie Fogarty 11:06
That's such a generous offer. And I'm, as I said, I'm going to put all of the the links to you into the show notes. Dr. Wendell, we're heading into a quick break. But when we come back, I want to talk about preventative steps we can take. We're going to explore rejuvenation for women who have had hair loss, and we're even going to talk about surgical offerings that exist on the table. We'll be back after this break. Mary, we're back from the break you went into with a very generous offer listeners who are struggling who don't have a local doctor can email you can get on the Medi Tresse website to learn more. But what you know, once you're on the Medi Tresse website, you see that there's a lot of wonderful treatments that you offer people. Let's talk about preventative measures, what are steps that we can take right now to prevent hair loss and thinning?
Mary Wendel 11:52
That's a great question. And it's something that's actually near and dear to my heart. One of the biggest concerns that I have right now is nutritional, even people who eat a fairly well balanced, not processed diet, and whole food diet, unfortunately, our food nutritionally is very depleted in this country and actually worldwide, so we're not getting the nutrients that we need. And that's one of the things that we do check when women come in, there's any concern that nutrition is playing a role. And for many women, it is we do check vitamin levels, nutritional levels, that's so important, a good diet, all that's really important. In terms of other things to do to help prevent loss is really be kind to your hair. I can't stress this enough. And we see women coming in who have been over processed over bleached, not gone to good salons, not getting their hair cared for properly, using products that are harsh, overheated, over pulled over permed, all of those things can lead to hair loss. And, you know, during the 90s I was I was someone who got my hair permed a lot I have very fine hair and, and it looked great, but I wonder now whether or not I might have you know harmed myself long term, these these chemicals are very, very harsh. So be careful about how you take care of your hair, keep it hydrated, be gentle, use a good stylistif you're going to have any kind of processing, coloring anything done. Because there are certain treatments that can cause permanent loss. So you need to be careful. And again, the most important thing is when you start to see changes to seek help. Not every type of hair loss is going to progress. Some of it is temporary. Some of it is due to illness. We do know like in COVID, any kind of significant illness you can have shedding and hair loss following that. So a lot of women come in, and it really is a temporary issue and they're reassured to know that there are things that they can do to help it come back. So um, you know, those are a few of the things that we do recommend.
Katie Fogarty 13:56
Mary, what about hairstyles I'm thinking particularly of my sister in law, who has beautiful thick hair and for many years were back in a ponytail and was starting to see like, almost like pulling along her scalp hairline. And I know that you know the African American community wears that, you know, braid sometimes which is pulling. Have you seen hair loss related to a choice of hairstyle?
Mary Wendel 14:20
Absolutely. It's very common. I tell my my granddaughter's look on the television when you see, for instance, gymnasts, athletes, women athletes. You know, like when they pull their hair back, ballerina's, when your hair is pulled back day after day after day it does put a strain on the hair follicles and there's something called traction alopecia where you actually lose the hair and the frontal hairline from the constant daily pulling. Yes, tight braids, cornrows, dreadlocks, all of those things if it's done day after day after day with no relief it does pull on those hairs and you will get some damage to the follicles. Usually, if it's if it's brought to our attention early, we can treat and get some regrowth. There is a time limit to that though I, you know, I tell people if you know, after 10 years, you've been missing hair from a particular area, it's going to be tough to get it back. Not impossible, but but more of a challenge. So yes, those hairstyles can play a role. And so you know, women who need to have their hair pulled back because of what they do for a living. When you get home, let it down, release it take the pressure and the tension off of those hairs that are being pulled tight every single day.
Katie Fogarty 15:40
And what role does scalp massage play in releasing tension and also helping your hair follicles because I know that's one of the treatments you offer in your facilities?
Mary Wendel 15:51
Yes, there's actually two parts to that one is the massage itself brings the blood supply to the scalp, which is always very nourishing and healthy. But it also releases dead tissue to the scalp. It releases dry flakiness and allows the scalp to be healthy, and to be clean. And unfortunately there's sort of this trend right now which is kind of fascinating of people sort of being afraid to shampoo and, and shampooing less and so you can get buildup on the scalp. And then when that happens, the follicles get clogged and you don't grow a healthy hair. So you do need to clean that off. And massage also helps with that. You know, we do a scalp cleanse in the office and we do clean off the scalp and we do a sort of a massage at the same time. And it's incredibly healthy for your scalp and it does encourage better hair growth.
Katie Fogarty 16:42
Yeah, I love, first of all, and by the way, it's so delightful who does not want their scalp massage. By the way I, as we all know, I just had to haircuts within the last five days so I had to scalp massages and hair washes. And it's always the best part of the trip to the salon. It is so these are some smart preventative things. You know, be be kind to your hair, right? Be careful of the chemicals, the bleaches, make smart choices about your hairstyle if there's too much tugging, scalp massages, good nutrition, supplements, these are all preventative steps. Let's talk about rejuvenation, right, because I know that when hair loss occurs, you know when that that that widening part has happened your hairline has receded you have these patches that you refer to you offer multiple treatments. I saw platelet rich plasma therapy, optimal platelet concentration, low level laser therapy, something called painless PRP which caught my eye because I'm into painless things. I want to learn about each but what would be the number one treatment you find that you're consistently offering patients?
Mary Wendel 17:52
That's a really good question. And I have to say first and foremost, the most important thing is getting the correct diagnosis. And that can only be done through a thorough history and physical. This is a medical diagnosis, so again, the vast majority of our patients have androgenic or age and hormonal related hair loss, but even our patients that have the more complicated stuff, the treatment depends on the diagnosis. So once we have the treatment, some of the treatment options excuse me, once we have the diagnosis, some of the treatment options, some of them are going to sound familiar. I do recommend minoxidil, which is what people think about as being Rogaine. Fortunately, we are now using oral minoxidil, very, very low dose, incredibly well tolerated. It does help stimulate regrowth and I think it's gotten a bad rap for many, many decades because people expect too much of it. But it does help.
Katie Fogarty 18:49
Do you do a topical, topically as well, because you said you recommend oral. That makes me think there's another option what would that be?
Mary Wendel 18:54
There is topical. Yes, absolutely. We actually have our own formulation which has nutrients in it as well as other medicines to help the minoxidil be absorbed better. It's really interesting because about 50% of the population has a genetic, I'm not gonna say defect, but a genetic marker that makes it harder for minoxidil to do its work. And so if you're one of those 50% sometimes you need a little extra boost whether it's from a different formulation or adding minoxidil orally as well as topically. Again, it's a very individual treatment plan.
Katie Fogarty 19:27
And do you test for that marker before you prescribe?
Speaker 1 19:30
We dont. Um, you can get it tested. There are, you know, there are tests out there that can be done. You know, just from treating patients you can kind of get a feel for for who's who's having difficulty with it and just having a great response. So it doesn't we still gonna use it even though we know that it may not work quite as well but it does pretty much work for everybody but again, it varies in terms of of how much it works.
Katie Fogarty 19:57
Okay, and so this is minoxidil or, you know, over the counter name Rogaine, is something that's used for age related hair loss, is that correct?
Mary Wendel 20:07
It's used for every type of hair loss. And the reason that I say that is it stimulates hair growth. And it doesn't really matter what the diagnosis is, it can stimulate hair growth. And so like the women who have traction alopecia along the frontal hairline, it will help stimulate some regrowth there. Some of the alopecia areata, is the scarring, and again, the more common androgenic or age related hormonally hair loss, works very well for that as well. So it works across the board. And again, it's gotten a bad rap, because people expect too much of it, but we use it in combination with other treatments, it rarely is a standalone treatment action. It's a supportive treatment. And all of these treatments work better together than they do individually. And that's been proven with research. So it sounds a bit like, you know, a sales pitch like, Oh, if you do more, it's going to work better. But in fact, it's based on science. So we do know they're additive. And I tell my patients, it's like if you have you know, high blood pressure and one medicine that helps but doesn't help enough, you sometimes have to add a second. So it's again, that's sort of our philosophy, we know that more works better. But we start simple. And so yes, Minoxidil is part of that treatment plan. Low level laser therapy is something that's been around for a couple of decades, but there wasn't a lot of research to back it until about 10 to 12 years ago. And we're talking about very low level, it's a cold laser. It's not a burning laser, it's not removing tissue. And a lot of people know about hair removal laser, we know about skin resurfacing lasers. That's not what this is. It's very low level, it's painless.
Katie Fogarty 21:42
And what does it do? What effect is it producing?
Mary Wendel 21:45
It actually stimulates regrowth, it actually, what I call it, like the the fuel for the furnace, it's energy that gets absorbed into the hair follicle cells and stimulates them to work better. And so it actually does help to regrow, it helps you grow a better quality hair, and it can help you grow more hair. Again, is it this huge change? No, but it is a visible change. And it takes about, I'm gonna say nine to 12 months to see the full benefit of that. Studies have shown that the combination of minoxidil plus laser does increase growth for about five years, and then it kind of lit levels off. And it keeps you there for quite a long time.
Katie Fogarty 22:24
That's fantastic, five, so would you do this again in five years, like do another nine to 12 months.
Mary Wendel 22:31
It's a continuous treatment. It's something you have to stick with continuously, okay. And that's, that's a big, that's a big message that needs to be out there. This is we cannot cure these hair loss problems, we can treat them. And so the treatment is continual, it's a commitment. You have to stick with it. And if you use these products, and you're getting a benefit, and you decide, well, I'm tired of doing it, you're going to lose the benefits. So you really have to commit to it. And it's not a big commitment. It really isn't using the laser, it takes about 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes every other day. There are newer lasers that don't take quite as long. So again, it works. It's painless. I use my laser while I'm sitting in bed reading before I go to sleep.
Katie Fogarty 23:15
Oh, I love this. So we can you can do it in the office and at home. Is that correct?
Mary Wendel 23:20
It's something you actually purchase and do at home. The lasers that were originally in office. Nobody really uses those anymore. Because it's so inconvenient, you can just do it at home,
Katie Fogarty 23:30
We are all about convenience so I love that. Okay, so but some of these other options, I'm assuming are done at the office?
Mary Wendel 23:37
Yes, the PRP treatments are done in the office. And what are they telling me? PRP is platelet rich plasma fancy term meaning that circulating within our own blood supply are growth factors that our body uses to heal damaged tissue. So they circulate around with the platelets, which is a certain type of blood cell. And when when we need them for injury, the platelets go there. And they bring those growth factors with them. Interestingly enough, the growth factors can go to any type of cell or tissue in your body and, and produce healing and growth. Somebody somewhere down the line decided to try this for different types of tissues and have found that indeed, you take those growth factors and you place them where you need them. And in our situation, it's hair follicles, and it does stimulate the hair to grow better and to to get some regrowth of follicles that have stopped growing. So
Katie Fogarty 24:33
and so how do you actually place them. Walk us through what this means. Is it like a cap on your head? Is it, what are we, what's happening?
Mary Wendel 24:40
So basically you have a blood test just like any kind of blood test and we take a certain amount of blood and we spin it down and that blood gets layered out, and the layers have different types of cells in it. So we removed the tissue layer that has the platelets in it and all those growth factors and traditionally the way it was placed into the scalp was through injections. And we still have a few patients that do it that way. That's where most of the research has come from. And you need, you need a minimum of three treatments once a month for three treatments, and then we wait six to nine months to see what type of benefit you're going to get from it. And it does work and it does increase hair counts, it does increase hair widths. It prolongs the growth phase of your hair, hair strands, typically your your hair will grow for a certain number of years and then fall out. As we age that growth cycle shortens. But with PRP, it prolongs it again. So it has many, many benefits and improves and it grows not just the cells around the follicle but it grows better circulation, better blood vessels, better supporting tissue, all of those growth factors, treat all those different types of cells around the hair follicle to support better growth. In the last two to three years, we've been offering what's called painless PRP, which I you know, initially we weren't sure -
Katie Fogarty 26:03
I like first of all, I that's such a genius, painless PRP, I love it. It's such a genius marketing.
Mary Wendel 26:09
Because it's, it's really changed the way we do PRP for more than 90% of our patients. It uses a very high intensity, what's called a jet peel, a high intensity flow of the of the PRP liquid, and it actually gets absorbed into the skin to the level of the hair follicle. And so without using a needle, this incredibly high intensity, I can't even I don't even know, you know, the term that used for measuring that. But it's so intense that it allows the the fluid to get into the scalp to the hair follicle without using a needle.
Katie Fogarty 26:48
And it produces the same kind of effect that you're going to have in six to nine months, you're going to see that, that you know visible increase.
Speaker 1 26:58
Yes its, when we first heard about this, we weren't sure if it was going to work as well. We are totally convinced that it does. We are, I'm so impressed with the results that we're getting. And, again, to be able to offer it painlessly. I mean, before you know what the the process of utilizing the needles was, you'd have to actually numb the scalp because the number of injections that are required for scalp PRP are pretty pretty numerous. And so we initially have to numb the scalp. And we have very well trained clinicians who can do it as painlessly as possible. But it's can't be painless. So you numb the scalp and then and then you utilize the needle method. And the numbness like when you go to the dentist will last for five hours. And then we're off and following all those multiple needle injections that can be very tender for several days. And there can be some swelling and some bruising with the painless. There's none of that. And so you literally sit there like you're getting your hair washed. And you know, 40 minutes later you walk out the door and your scalps a little wet, but there's no swelling, there's no pain. There really truly is no pain.
Katie Fogarty 28:06
This sounds fabulous. So very quick, very quick question, can this be used on eyebrows? Can this be used on eyebrows? Do you do any work on eyebrows?
Mary Wendel 28:15
Um, we we actually do not. Eyebrows are tricky, because they're so close to the eye and you do have to be careful. There are medications that can help eyebrows, eyebrows grow better, and we sort of rely on those more than PRP. I know people that have, some clinicians who have who have done PRP on eyebrows, but again, so long as the, it's like Le t so as long as that is available and works well. We tend to stick with that for eyebrows.
Katie Fogarty 28:44
Okay, and so let's talk a little bit about hair transplants. Now, is this something that's sort of a last gasp kind of option? Or is this something that's like sort of a first option for people? Who is a candidate for a hair transplant? And how does that work?
Speaker 1 28:59
Yeah, that's a really good question. Up until, you know, 10 years ago, there wasn't a lot, 10 to 12 years ago, there wasn't a lot to offer women for hair loss. And so women were coming in looking for hair transplants and women have a it's harder to do a good procedure on a woman for a couple of reasons. One is primarily expectation. Women want more.
Katie Fogarty 29:21
They want they want two haircuts in one week because they want it to look right.
Speaker 1 29:27
I want it to look great. So anyway, so you know, yes, women can have hair transplants, it's not that they can't. It's what is your, what are the expectations, and that's true for any type of treatment. We ask the women what is your expectations? What are you looking for? If you're looking for your hair to have the same density it had 20 years ago, hair transplant can not do that. But a woman who has you know fairly pronounced thinning and in some areas sadly some balding if they haven't had treatment, and they've waited a long time. Hair transplants can sometimes be And option even still to this day. And so we're a bit more selective about who who gets who gets hair transplants recommended for them. But you also also need to have really good donor hair, meaning you have to have hair somewhere on your scalp, which is thick and healthy, which can be then removed and placed, where you need the hair to be filled in. So, you know, we're much because we have these other options. We're much more selective about who who should get a hair transplant, it's not that we don't do it. And sometimes women, you know, do these other things in addition to a hair transplant, we oftentimes do PRP with transplants, a lot of the men are getting PRP plus transplants. So again, it's not out of the realm of possibility to have a hair transplant. For women, it's just we're much more selective because we have much more options, many more options to offer.
Katie Fogarty 30:50
Right, that makes a lot of sense. And having that one two punch, I think probably, you know, I can see why that that's smart. We're nearing the end of our time, we're gonna be heading into a speed round shortly. But before we do I want to touch on two areas. What role if any does HRT play in hair loss? Or, you know, preventing hair loss? Do you have any information to share with us?
Mary Wendel 31:16
I do. And in fact, I did a whole webinar on HRT and hair loss. So if someone's looking for some in depth information on that, we do have our webinars on the website. But I will just sort of summarize that and say, we do know that hormones play a huge role in menopausal hair loss. And so you know, the the obvious question arises, Well, should I use HRT for my hair? And the answer to that question is a little tricky, because I think with any medication, you have to wait benefits versus risks. There's a lot of benefits to HRT. And I think it's important for women to go to a specialist who, like I won't prescribe it, but if I feel someone might benefit from it, I encourage them to see somebody who prescribes it a lot. And HRT can be a combination of estrogen, progesterone, and sometimes testosterone. A lot of women liked testosterone because it makes them feel stronger and helps develop muscles. But we do know testosterone can can drive hair loss. So I tell women, please do not use testosterone. There are some hormone experts out there that are saying that testosterone can be good for hair. But I will tell you, there's no hair loss expert on the planet who believes testosterone is good for hair. That's estrogen and progesterone can help. Now again, HRT is not for everybody. And so for women for whom it is it is deemed safe, and can have other benefits as well. It can help with hair loss. We do know that there are many women who particularly have had breast cancer that are on hormone blockers long term for their breast cancer prevention of recurrence. And unfortunately, those you know, hormone blockers, those estrogen blockers do accelerate hair loss. So we do treat those women as well. So hormones plays a role. HRT can be beneficial. Gotcha.
Katie Fogarty 33:04
Yeah, I love it. First of all, this is so useful. Interesting about the testosterone link. I'm gonna encourage anyone who wants to know more to to check out Dr. Wendell, his webinar on her website. But this brings me to the second point I wanted to ask you about first was HRT, the second one, we've sort of just sort of segued into it naturally, is the link between cancer and hair loss. You know, it sounds like being on a hormone blocker can accelerate hair loss, obviously having cancer treatments can cause hair loss. This is an issue for women who experience a variety of different types of breast cancers. What can you offer somebody who is experiencing cancer related hair loss?
Mary Wendel 33:46
Yes. This is a wonderful question. I'm glad you brought it up. You know, the good news about cancer treatments is that more people, men and women are surviving. And and so what does that mean in terms of hair? And you know, people say, well, you survived your cancer, why are you concerned about your hair? These women come in in droves. And again, it's like you say, you, you look, you get up in the morning and you look in the mirror and you want to feel like yourself, and I had one breast cancer survivor say to me, you know, in tears, saying, you know, my friends and family say we're so happy that you've in remission, probably cured, why are you so worried about your hair? And she said to me, every morning, she looks in the mirror and she sees her hair being thin and not growing back the same way that it was and it reminds her that she had breast cancer and, and so it's it's hard for her to look in the mirror every morning. And so yes, there are there are some preventative treatments with the the cool caps that that some of the oncologists are using there can be some benefit from that. But after the fact, I would say up to 40 to 50% of people who've had hair loss from their cancer treatments are not going to get full recovery. Many do but but many don't. And, and for breast cancer survivors, many of them are put on hormone blockers, which unfortunately prevents their hair regrowth from being full like it was before. So we do treat them. We know obviously, we can't treat them with HRT, but we treat them with minoxidil, we treat them with laser, we treat them with PRP, and they do get benefit. And that includes women who've had, for instance, radiation therapy to their scalp or brain. You know, I have a young patient who's now in college, she had brain tumor when she was very young, lost most of her hair, a lot of it didn't grow back. And we've had phenomenal success, getting some regrowth for her and she feels more like a normal teenager now. And she said, I'm not the kid who has cancer anymore. I have, you know, she has thinner hair than she had. But at least she has full scalp coverage. And she's so delighted. And so we do offer treatments and, and a lot of support, I mean, a lot of emotional support. And so there is treatment, it's simple. And again, it's important that a woman who is undergoing chemotherapy, or about to undergo chemotherapy, we have women come in who are just starting their treatments, and there's some things we can't do during treatment. But there are some things that actually can happen during their chemotherapy treatments.
Katie Fogarty 36:17
So beautiful that you offer these options, and I'm so delighted that that young woman was able to to feel better about herself. Anyone who's listening to this, who has, you know, experienced cancer related hair loss or has somebody in their life who is worrying about this, it's you know, the we have to spread the news to people that there are there are solutions out there and treatments because it makes such an enormous difference doctor whether your work is so important. I'm and I'm so grateful that you came on the show today to talk about it. We are moving into our speed round because our time is coming to an end. This is just very simple one to two word answers. And so let's do this thing. Okay, launching Medi Tresse was:
Mary Wendel 36:59
Totally unexpected.
Katie Fogarty 37:02
We love an unexpected third act. Okay, what's a food choice we can make? That's good for our hair. Um,
Mary Wendel 37:12
Good quality protein. And it doesn't have to be meat. Good quality protein. Very important for hair.
Katie Fogarty 37:19
Nice. Okay, surprise. This vitamin or supplement is a haircare superhero.
Mary Wendel 37:25
Hmm. Trying to think of one.
Katie Fogarty 37:29
Throw a couple we can add more than one to our cart.
Mary Wendel 37:32
People are going to be surprised to hear this vitamin D is very important. The B vitamins are very important.
Katie Fogarty 37:39
All right, B's and DS. Okay. thickening shampoos. Do they work? Yes or no?
Mary Wendel 37:44
They make your hair look thicker. They don't make it grow thicker.
Katie Fogarty 37:48
Okay. All right. Does shampooing hair everyday cause hair loss? Yes or No?
Mary Wendel 37:53
No.
Katie Fogarty 37:54
Daily scalp massages at home? Yes or no?
Mary Wendel 37:57
Oh, lovely. Yes.
Katie Fogarty 37:59
Sounds divine. Hot or cold water to shampoo?
Mary Wendel 38:04
I'm gonna say warm.
Katie Fogarty 38:05
Oh, okay. Right in the middle. Daily blow drying or flat irons? Yes or no?
Mary Wendel 38:11
Oh, I am so guilty of this. I would say no. But when you have fine thin hair, it's a little tough making body without it. But no.
Katie Fogarty 38:23
All right. No, but yeah, exactly. Sometimes Sometimes we make choices that, you know, make us feel, we gotta live with our bad choices and our shiny gorgeous hair. All right, finally, what's your one word answer to complete the sentence. As I age, I feel:
Mary Wendel 38:40
I just feel more thoughtful and more contemplative.
Katie Fogarty 38:44
Very nice. Thank you so much, Mary. This was so informative. So needed before we say goodbye. How can our listeners find you your work and Matt address?
Mary Wendel 38:55
Yeah, our website is meditresse.com.com. If you have questions for the practice, you can just email us info at meditresse.com. The other contact information, I think is you're going to provide that but my personal email is mwendell@meditresse.com. I try to answer all of my personal emails within a week. I get a lot so I ask people to be patient.
Katie Fogarty 39:21
That is a lovely, wonderful, generous offer. Thank you Dr. Wendell. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Want to hear more stories of women making the most of midlife? Come follow the podcast sister account over on Instagram you can find it @letsageoutloud. Have a story you want to share? We would love to feature you. Please head to @letsageoutloud to submit your story at the link in bio special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly beauties.