A Resiliency Toolkit for Uncertain Times with Clinical Psychologist Dr. Brooke Picotte
Show Snapshot:
Do you wish navigating change or uncertainty was easier? Our lives got thrown a corona curveball in 2020. All we truly know—we are in anxious times. Dr. Brooke Picotte, a licensed clinical psychologist and an expert in life transitions, spells out the steps for managing uncertainty, the how’s of conquering negative thoughts, and why anxiety is actually an alarm system that protects you. And bonus! If you’re grappling with how take your life in a new direction, Brooke lays out specific questions to jump start your pivot.
In This Episode We Cover:
Navigating change and curveballs
Why anxiety is an alarm system that protects you
How to reframe anxious and negative thoughts
Choosing compassion for yourself during times of struggle
Harnessing inward affirmation in an external world of social media “likes”
4 questions for creating a life you love vs one that’s good on paper
An easy exercise to maintain resiliency on down days
3 reads to discover your passion and unlock a life of intention
Quotable:
I think it's important to put your arm around your fears and the anxiety and make friends with it. People need to look at anxiety as an alarm system that is there for you to protect you. And you need to pay attention, and not be afraid of it.
Snackable Smarts:
People often react to anxiety and fear by pretending it's not there. Put your arm around your fears and the anxiety and make friends with it.
Start by having a dialogue with yourself that asks, "What are you worried about? What are your fears?
Reframe anxiety as an alarm system that is there for you to protect you. Pay attention to it and not be afraid of it.
Starting to panic? Remind yourself that things are going to play out the way they're going to play out, whether or not you worry about it.
You are not a fixed set of experiences. You keep learning and growing and evolving with new relationships, with new jobs, with education. Think of your life as a cake with layers.
We see little snippets of other people's lives and we often make judgements, but as you go through life, you realize, you can’t so quickly judge others. Including yourself.
An easy exercise for staying resilient. Journal what’s going right in your life. Journal why you are lit up about a new project or challenge. When down days crop up, check back in with your list of awesome reasons to stay on track.
Want to build a life you love? Look inward and ask four questions: 1. What excites me? 2. What do I love? 3. What energizes me? 4. What do I see myself doing? Answer those questions, because that's going to lead you to a place you need to be.
Word of Mouth. Brooke’s Product Picks:
“To hone in on your passion, your intentions, for yourself versus what other people expect from you, I recommend some reading to help bolster that exploration: “The Power of Intention” by Wayne Dyer and “The Artist's Way,” by Julia Cameron -- a wonderful exercise to help you access your inner creativity, your inner voice, to help you discover things that you might not have known you're interested in doing.”
More Resources:
Host Katie Fogarty swears by Vision writing. She writes one every year using this model from the Fast Forward Group.
Episode Links:
Recommended Reads
Revolution from Within: A Book of Self-Esteem
Follow Brooke:
LinkedIn: Brooke Picotte
Transcript
Katie Fogarty (00:03):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50, who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty.
Remember when you were young and thought your life would unfold in a straight line? And then you got older and realized the line zigs and zags, and zigs and zags. And that zigging and zagging is okay. It's acceptable, even normal. And then came March 2020 and the zigs and zags started looking more like the panicked peaks and valleys of an EKG monitor right before somebody flatlines at the end of the movie. COVID rolled into town and shook us all. Many of us no longer know which way is up. And when I say many, I mean me. Our lives are morphing and transitioning in unimaginable ways, which is why I'm so excited about our guest today. I'm joined by Dr. Brooke, a licensed clinical psychologist and an expert in life transitions.
She is going to help us think through how to be more resilient and adaptable, to better manage life's transitions and curveballs. Welcome, Brooke.
Brooke Picotte (01:03):
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
Katie (01:05):
Brooke, every January I sit down and I write a vision. I do it every single year. It’s a vision for how I want my year to go, what professional and personal accomplishments I'm committing to. And I did it this year and I was really excited. I turned 50 and it felt important for me to really clarify what I wanted out of this next phase of my career, this next phase of my life. And then COVID happened. And my vision for 2020 went out the window. My emotions have been all over the map during this time, like way all over. Is that normal?
Brooke (01:42):
Absolutely. Let me just start by saying, I think that's a wonderful exercise to do throughout your life. To look forward, to make plans, to set intentions. But guess what? Sometimes they aren't possible given unpredictable circumstances and certainly we are going through some very unpredictable, disturbing, alarming circumstances. But your reaction is entirely normal and I think it's very healthy to express them.
I think one of the things a lot of people have been most surprised by is the anxiety they're feeling. It's something they've never experienced to this extent before. We often react to anxiety and fear by pretending it's not there.
Katie (02:33):
Totally. I so relate to that and I honestly feel like I spend too much time on Instagram and I look at all these memes of people encouraging us to be resilient and make banana bread and hashtag blessed. And sometimes I'm like, everyone in my life is healthy, I need to focus on the good stuff. And then at times I'm like down in the valley of like depression and thinking, "When is this going to be over? When am I going to get back to my old life?” And I'm beginning to think that my old life, I can't return to it because so much has changed. Why is change so hard for people?
Brooke (03:10):
Well, I think it becomes hard when we don't feel prepared, when we don't see the roadmap before us, and we don't have a plan that we've sort of settled on. It's the unpredictability and the fear around that. And what I like to tell my patients in dealing with life in general is that it's important to reframe how you feel about those anxious feelings. Instead of saying, "What's wrong with me? I don't have the coping skills. I didn't plan for this. I don't feel ready." I think it's important to put your arm around your fears and the anxiety and make friends with it. And by that, I mean start having a dialogue with yourself saying, "What are you worried about? What are your fears?” I think people need to look at it as an alarm system that is there for you to protect you. And you need to pay attention to it and not be afraid of it, but say, "Okay, what are these butterflies in my stomach about? What are my fears? What are my worries? What do I think I might not succeed at?” And then, work on it.
Katie (04:29):
I love the way that you said it's like an alarm system, because I was thinking a little bit about the analogy of AAA. I use Triple A when I run into car trouble, and I feel good knowing it's in my wallet. Is there something that we can put in our mental wallets to remind ourselves to calm the F down when things run off the rails? That we can just access when we need it?
Brooke (04:57):
Well, I think we all know when we start to panic, we don't deal as well as we'd like to deal. So, it gets in the way and I remind myself that things are going to play out the way they're going to play out, whether or not I have a heart attack about it.
Katie (05:11):
So true.
Brooke (05:13):
I mean life marches on, and I can complain, freak out, avoid, whatever you need to do. But at the same time, things are going to happen with or without me. So, I might as well just realize there are things I can do what works for me to get through this. And it varies from person to person.
Katie (05:32):
I think it's so smart to work with a therapist to start to figure out what your individual and unique concerns are and to work on that toolkit that you need. When I looked at your LinkedIn profile, you wrote something that really caught my eye. It said very often people enter therapy believing they have set traits or characteristics that determine what is possible for their future. And that really resonated with me. Because at one point in my life, I felt very "Katie." You know, I'm "Katie" now. But I read an article in my thirties where they talked about how your personality evolves. And I remember feeling upset because I was like, I like who I am. What do you mean? I want to remain Katie at 30. But it's true, you do evolve. So, talk to us a little bit about why it's important to know that you're not a fixed set of traits or experiences, and what it means to be open to change.
Brooke (06:30):
Right. I love this question because I'm thinking right now of, um, Gloria Steinem's book from many years ago called A Revolution From Within and in it, she talks about how we are many selves. We are, you know, you think of that Katie in her twenties and you look back and think, "Oh, I wish I could have told her it will all be okay. Look at all that I've learned. Look at all that I've done since I was in my twenties." So, you've had so many different selves. You have one true voice, one set of values, you know, all of that's constant, but we keep learning and growing and evolving with experience. With new relationships, with new jobs, with our education. And that's a wonderful thing. So ,think of it as a cake with just many, many layers. We're just adding on.
Katie (07:21):
I love the idea that you could be like a layer cake. Because first of all, it sounds so delicious. But I also think that, you know, you said that your values don't necessarily change. And for me, I feel like they have a little bit. Maybe my core essence is the same...
Brooke (07:35):
Sure.
Katie (07:35):
...but as I've learned new things about the world, about climate change, about the Black Lives Matter movement, and I've had to question some of the things that I thought to be absolute truths, and I've had to kind of take my set of values and learn how to better apply them, given the better information I have, and the richer experience that I've lived through.
Do you find that your patients struggle with that type of change or have you struggled with that type of change in your own life?
Brooke (08:08):
I wouldn't call it struggling, but I think, as I said earlier, when you look back to Katie in her twenties, you have compassion and you feel supportive. And I feel like with life experience, we are, you know, our minds have become more open and more flexible. And we recognize where we might've had a certain set of beliefs cause we didn't have the experience in 20 years ago. Now things resonate on a deeper level. When you have children, when you've got a spouse, when you have a friend who's struggling with something and you've watched them go through it, I think it changes who you are.
Katie (08:45):
Absolutely. I love the idea that we can be flexible, because I think that one of the sort of really tired stereotypes about people getting older is that they're rigid and inflexible and they're set in their ways. Because we've all heard that trope before. But the idea that you are more flexible because of your experience, I mean, you're pulling from different experiences that you've had in your professional life and your personal life. You've interacted with more people. You've seen more of the world. And I love the idea that it can make you feel more nimble and flexible.
Brooke (09:16):
And less judgmental. I remember being in my twenties and I was on the subway and a mother's child was screaming, crying, and I thought, what a horrible mother, she's not comforting this child, what a terrible scene to watch, I felt terrible for the child. Later on, four kids later, after having toddlers go through difficult periods, I realized, the mom was doing the best she could. She wasn't necessarily being abusive and the child wasn't scarred for life. And you know, we see these little snippets of other people's lives and we often make judgements, but I think when you go through things and you go through life, you realize, I can't so quickly judge others.
Katie (09:55):
Absolutely. Well, that's a great example too. And that woman could have actually been making the decision to not give the situation oxygen. You know, sometimes we interact with kids. We've all had that experience where you have to ignore the child because that's the right thing to do to make sure they're not getting the positive feedback for the negative. So, again it's the idea of snippets. I feel like we live in a world of snippets today. We have Tweets, which are small snippets of thought, and we have Instagram, which are small snapshots of what is generally perfection. So, how do you keep your own mental health when you're looking at what looks like snippets of other people's success and highlight reels?
Brooke (10:36):
I think that's a great question. It's something a lot of certainly adolescents struggle with because they’re...
Katie (10:43):
And I struggle with it. I get an Instagram, I'm like, look at these women! They're hot exercise girls….
Brooke (10:50):
It's magnified for younger people who are still forming their identity and asking the questions. Who am I? What do I represent? What do people think of when they see me? What do they identify me with? I think that's where trying to put that stuff away comes into play. What's most important, is kind of looking inward and asking yourself who you are not looking to compare yourself to images you see on social media. Really trying to find your own set of truths, your own intention, your plans, your own creativity, all of that comes from looking inside. We can certainly be inspired and I think that's a nice thing when we can look at someone and say, "Wow, I love that they were able to do that. That makes me want to do that." That's great.
So, I think, you know, there can be some positives to looking at snippets of other people's lives. But I think the real important work comes from looking inward and saying, "What excites me? What do I love? What do I see myself doing? What do I feel energized about and passionate about?” And trying to really answer those questions, because that's going to lead you to a place you need to be.
Katie (12:10):
Absolutely. And I think as we get older, we have learned that lesson. We have learned over the years that we really needed to be our own cheerleader and bang our own drum and, you do you, and just try to figure out what that is, right. But it can be challenging when people reach a certain age. People start to think, you're starting to run out of a little bit of time maybe, or you haven't gotten exactly where you want to be in your career. Or you're wondering what's next. Is there different advice that you would be giving to a patient in their twenties then you would be giving to them in their fifties? Or is it the same? Are you still coaching people to use the same tools?
Brooke (12:52):
I would say there are certainly differences and different sets of fears at different stages in life. But for the most part, I feel as if I'm approaching it the same way with them, which is to try to be honest with themselves about who they are and think about what they'd like to be doing versus, what they feel their parents, friends, spouse, or other people feel that they should be doing. That's a difficult thing for people. I think we are...
Katie (13:20):
So difficult.
Brooke (13:21):
We are so tuned into what others think of us and expect from us and it requires an effort to try to put that out of our minds and ask ourselves, is this really what I want to be studying? Is this really the person I want to be married to, even though everybody thinks he's so wonderful. It’s these types of things, it's looking inward and really trying to access, is this going to make me happy? Because if you can access that you will be successful, you will work hard. If you can find the thing that really makes you want to jump out of bed you'll be fine.
Katie (14:00):
Right? I talked about it in the beginning, that notion of the straight line that you march on. And I think that until you start to see the zigs and zags and diverging from what other people expect from you, you can march yourself right into a very unhappy life where you've become a lawyer or you're married to the right person, or you're living in the right town or doing all the quote unquote right things. But without ever having taken the time to ask yourself, "Is this what I want? Is this what lights me up?"And I think that's why this age demographic, you know, turning 50, becoming a little bit older, can feel so fraught for people because they're looking at more limited time ahead. So, you're like, "If not now, when?" So people really need to get in action.
Katie (14:48):
So, how can we help the younger people in our lives like this out a little bit faster? Because I know you mentioned you have four children. I have three, they range from 19, 17 and 13. Your kids are similar in age. How can we give our kids the tools to become more resilient, faster? And even if you're not a parent, you often work with younger people, maybe you're mentoring and leading a team of young directs. How can we help people get these tools of resiliency and self-discovery quicker than we did?
Brooke (15:18):
I don't know if we can help them get it more quickly. I feel like everybody's living at their own pace. Some people have the ability to bounce back more quickly than others. But I think in terms of parenting or modeling for younger people, I think it's important to let them know, you chose to do this. Law school or whatever. Start working in a law firm around the clock. You're obviously miserable and that's okay. You know, you can change your mind now. It's not too late. Don't spend the next five, ten years feeling like, "I need to make this work. I need to try to get this into alignment. “
Katie (15:59):
People get very attached to their stories and their lives. They feel like it has to be this way. Right?
Brooke (16:04):
Right.
Katie (16:05):
The notion of changing your mind is so grown up. You realize it doesn't have to be perfect. I think when you're young, there's this whole notion of perfection that people strive for. And the notion of making mistakes and failing fast and moving on is really a difficult one to absorb.
Brooke (16:22):
Sure.
Katie (16:22):
Because it means getting off that line that you've been marching along on.
Brooke (16:25):
And if, as parents and mentors, we let people know the younger people who are changing their mind, "Good for you. That's wonderful! Not, "What went wrong? Why can't you be happy?"
Katie (16:37):
I love that. It's like, "Hey, teach me how to do that!"
Brooke (16:40):
Yes, no, I think…
Katie (16:41):
Brooke. How old are you?
Brooke (16:44):
I am 51 years old.
Katie (16:46):
And how does it feel to say your age out loud?
Brooke (16:50):
It feels unusual because…
Katie (16:54):
It's like being asked your weight or your bank account. Right?
Brooke (16:57):
...and I don't have a scale. I like to avoid all numbers.
Katie (17:02):
Brooke and I actually went to elementary school together, middle school, I guess I should say. And we were in math class, we were in several math classes together. And we have this running joke that you do not want to see us do math, you don't want to see us figure out a check. We're anti-number, definitely anti-number. But I love that you said it because I feel it's very difficult for people to own their age. And it's...why? Why do you think?
Brooke (17:31):
Well, I think it relates to what we were just talking about. Sort of the idea that I should be at this place, at this time in my life. And I think when we shed ourselves of that, it’s, "What do I have to be ashamed of?" I'm 51, I'm healthy, I've got four kids and I'm enjoying my life. There's nothing to feel badly about. But I do feel that often people think, "I don't look the way I feel like I should look at this age.”
Katie (18:03):
Oh my gosh. Everyone's got that mirror shock. When you look in the mirror and you're like, 'Whoa!" My fixed image is me of at 26. So, every morning, I'm like, "Whoa. Not quite!" But yeah. I think society really, and all the messaging that you get, although you've seen a bit of a shift in the way women are presented in advertising today. You know, Dove, which has taken on different body sizes. You're seeing greater diversity of representation and hopefully the message that turning 50, and getting that AARP card doesn't mean you're shuffling off the mortal coil. There's still life to live.
Brooke (18:40):
Yes.
Katie (18:40):
Speaking of life, I want to switch gears for a minute. I know that you are making a big change in your own life. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and then maybe some of the tools that you're using to make it feel comfortable?
Brooke (18:53):
Right. Okay. So, I am closing down my private practice and moving to London in a couple of weeks with my husband and one of our four children, our youngest. So, that's a huge, huge life change. Because we've been in New York for many years. And for the most part, with all of our children, they're going to school here and there. So, our family is sort of separating, we're leaving two boys in school in the States. One daughter's going to school in Scotland, and our youngest will be with us. So, that's huge. Just the family piece of it. Then, you know, not...
Katie (19:38):
Working. Because having your job is a big part of your identity. How do you feel about not having that as a core pillar of who you are?
Brooke (19:47):
Well, to be honest, I feel kind of excited about it.
Katie (19:50):
You're allowed to be! People are excited to retire. I don't know if you're retiring, but you're at least taking a pause.
Brooke (19:57):
I'm definitely taking a pause and I'm planning on looking around and saying, you know, "What excites me? What would I love to be doing?” To be honest, I've looked into photography schools and painting and cooking. And, I just think I could have a lot of fun exploring these different interests. But I guess I giggled thinking, I should say, " Well, I have a plan." Because earlier didn't I say, it's great to have a plan? Well, my plan is to not have a plan and that is very much ingrained in my personality. I am one of those people who doesn't really like to have too firm of a plan. I like the idea that there's room for spontaneity. And my husband is completely the opposite. So, it's funny how when quarantine hit and then all this happened.
Katie (20:44):
The plans went out the window.
Brooke (20:45):
Well, I think plans for a lot of people went out the window and a lot of people panicked about it, but part of me was like, "Oh, this works for me." I don't have to run around a lot and do things I don't really want to be doing that are just on my schedule. So, a lot of the quarantining and family time that worked for me.
Katie (21:04):
So great. Because sometimes I think people aren't willing to acknowledge that. Because we live in this hustle culture, like, hashtag hustle harder. Work, work, work. And not everyone is motivated. Or different times of your life, you might be ready for a different kind of chapter. And that's something that is, I think that people probably struggle with.
Do you think there's a gender divide were men are more interested in having their identity be tied closely to work and women have multi-facets that interest them? Or is that just a gendered assumption on my part?
Brooke (21:42):
Well, I think it's something people would say seems true, but it's imposed by society and cultural norms and not necessarily ingrained in our gender.
Katie (21:53):
Brooke. I know you've had a 20 year practice of coaching people through different types of life transitions: students looking for work, people struggling in their marriage, people looking for career change. I wanted to ask you if you could do a quick speed round of coaching for me on something that I'm struggling with right now.
Brooke (22:16):
Sure. I can try.
Katie (22:17):
All right. Let's do it. So, thank you for saying yes, by the way, when I put you on the spot, you are a good friend. So, I have launched this podcast A Certain Age and I am super excited about it. I can't wait to talk to all these amazing women, but my inner voice is also saying to me, you know, other people are doing this. And maybe they're more experienced and doing it better. And I really, you know, I'm going back and forth between like, "Yay, I'm so excited!” And also like, "What am I thinking?" How can I be more "Yay! I'm so excited!" consistently?
Brooke (22:50):
Well, I think first off by expressing that feeling, you're allowing yourself to ask yourself, "What made me decide to do this?" Despite the fact that other people are doing podcasts, clearly a part of me felt that I had something to say, I have something to offer. I'm going to do it in my own way. So, a nice exercise might be to jot down what you plan to give, what you plan to bring to it that other people have not done yet. The things that excite you, going back to what we were talking about before, when you, when you set the intention to do this, something about doing this really excited you, and the more that you can sort of harness that, understand it, and bring it to your work every day, that the better it will feel.
Katie (23:40):
I love that. I'm definitely going do that exercise. Because in my other work life, I have a day job running a consultancy called The Reboot Group, I keep a document, a Word doc of wins. When a client sends me like a glowing email, or if I've heard somebody say something good, I put it in this document. And I actually look at it when I'm feeling down, when I'm feeling like, "Oh my God.” You know, because we all have those peaks and valleys. We all go through them. So, it's so great to have that reminder about when I succeeded to see me through those darker days. And even though I don't have yet the successes with this podcast, I can remind myself of my excitement. If I have a running list of why I want to do this. On the days when I don't feel like doing this, I can check back in with it and have it be a guide that keeps me back on track. Thanks.
Brooke (24:29):
And I think it's important that it will have come from you. It's wonderful to have accolades from other people, to get that affirmation. But I think if you can access what it was that made you want to do this and really kind of water that plant.
Katie (24:43):
Right? No, that's so smart. Because I do feel like that old like Catholic school girl, gold star kind of lens sometimes to doing things where the validation is external. But we need to have the internal reminder.
Brooke (25:00):
Because I think that's more long lasting, honestly. I think that's what will drive you further.
Katie (25:04):
Yeah. I love that. I hope our listeners take that on as well for the things that you're struggling in your, in your life, just reminders about why you're doing what you do, because it can keep you on track.
Brooke (25:13):
Right.
Katie (25:14):
We're nearing the end of our time here. And you've shared so many wonderful suggestions with our listeners. Is there a resource that you want to make sure that you leave people with before we wrap?
Brooke (25:26):
In thinking about what we've discussed, the idea of trying to hone in on your passion, your intentions for yourself versus what other people expect from you. I think some interesting reading that might help bolster that exploration would be The Power of Intention by Wayne Dyer. He wrote it a long, long time ago, but it's one that was really meaningful for me in my life. And The Artist's Way, which is another I read a long time ago. I believe Julia Cameron wrote it. It's a wonderful exercise to help you access your inner creativity, your inner voice, to help you discover things that you might not have known you're interested in doing.
Katie (26:13):
And since we're still sheltering-in-place to a degree, this is a great time to unleash your creativity and work on those projects that maybe got back-burnered when life was running at a crazier pace.
Brooke (26:25):
Right.
Katie (26:25):
Brooke, thank you so much for joining us today.
Brooke (26:27):
Thank you.
Katie (26:28):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. Thanks for listening. And if you enjoyed the show and you have amazing women in your life, and I know that you do because you did not make it to 50 without fabulous female friends, please spread the word. You could also help us grow by heading to iTunes, to subscribe, rate, and leave a review and visit us at www.acertainagepod.com for show notes and bonus content.
Do you have a story of reinvention after 50? We'd love a chance to feature it, head to acertainagepod.com to share your women at story with our listeners. Special thanks to Michael Mancini music who composed and produced our theme song. See you next time. And until then: age boldly beauties.