Reinvent Your Empty Nest with Ideas from Author Melissa Shultz

Relationships and Parenting
Written By Season Three

Show Snapshot:

May’s graduation season means those nests are emptying. Are you ready? Today’s show features a woman with ideas for reinventing your life after the kids leave.

Writer Melissa Shultz, author of From Mom to Me Again. How I Survived My First Empty-Nest Year and Reinvented the Rest of My Life, chronicles how to navigate that first dislocating empty-nest year, and shares ideas for transforming your marriage, friendships, and career as you once again take center stage in your own life.

In This Episode We Cover:

1.    How Melissa wrote From Mom to Me Again when she couldn’t find a parenting book on navigating the empty nest.

2.    Letting go of the mothering instinct.

3.    Moving from mom to mentor.

4.    Think only moms with “no life” get the empty-nest blues? (Spoiler alert: Even Madonna was devastated).

5.    Preparing for the empty nest before the kids fly the coop.

6.    Kids leaving for college? Don’t be surprised if you say goodbye to a few friendships too.

7.    Why to “date” your partner after the kids depart.

8.    How to resurrect your career and hobbies (or develop new ones) with your kid-free time.

9.    Tips, tools, resources to take center stage in your own life.

Quotable:

The hardest part for me was letting go of that mothering instinct. It’s our knee-jerk reaction from the moment we held them in our arms. To parent someone for all those years and then say, “Okay, I think you got it,” and watch them walk away, it’s easier said than done for most people.

What have you wanted to do in your life that perhaps you weren’t able to do because you were raising a family? Are there things you’ve always wanted to try? Are there places you’ve always wanted to go? How can you make some of your own dreams come true, while you’re still dreaming them?

Transcript:

Katie Fogarty (00:06):

Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I’m your host, Katie Fogarty.

Every month has its holidays, its rituals. May famously celebrates Mother’s Day, but May also hosts countless graduations; high school, college when the very people who make a mother a mother gleefully pack their bags and move out and on. When the house empties, and life is no longer dominated by the day-to-day demands of being Mom, what comes next?

I’m joined by a woman who has asked herself that very question. Melissa Shultz is the author of From Mom to Me Again: How I Survived My First Empty-Nest Year and Reinvented the Rest of My Life. Part memoir, part self-help guide, the book covers how to navigate the transformation of family, marriage, friendships, and career and take center stage in your own life. Welcome, Melissa.

Melissa Shultz (01:03):

Thank you, I’m glad to be here.

Katie (01:06):

I’m so happy to be spending time with you because I am somebody who’s done this once before, my daughter went off to school and I’m getting ready to do it again, as my son Milo graduates from high school in a few weeks. The title of your book, From Mom to Me Again, so perfectly captures this kind of notion of reclaiming one’s core essential self, after your kids fly the coup and day-to-day mothering ends. I’d love to start with a little stage setting. What made you write this book and when did you write it?

Melissa (01:42):

Good question. Well, I wrote it because even though I found a lot of books that talked about life after the kids leave, I couldn’t find any at the time that helped prepare me for before they left. So, you know, lots of moms, I turn to parenting books throughout my kids’ life so I could make more informed choices and to really understand their needs beyond what might have come naturally to me. But, you know, when my kids were leaving, I was so accustomed to making them first and foremost in my life, I wasn’t exactly sure how I was gonna move forward and be happy. And so, I wrote the book. I wanted to reach out to other moms, therapists, lots of professionals and ask them for some guidance, and kinda put it all in one place.

Katie (02:37):

There’s a line in your book that really just jumped out at me that I absolutely loved. You talk about the fact that a big part of being your mother is preparing your kids to grow up and take ownership of their own lives. As your sons went off to college, you were so proud of them, your heart was really full of pride, but it was also a little bit broken. I think that kind of duality is something that people can really relate to. You’re so excited to see your kids grow, it’s different points in your life, you’re waiting for them to grow. And then when it happens it’s a little bit of a shock.

Melissa (03:12):
It is, it is.

Katie (03:14):
One of the things I loved about this book is that it’s part memoir but it’s really part tactical tools that anyone can use. So, you share your own stories but you also share advice that’s just universal. And you divide the book into four parts which is really interesting. You tackle different aspects of this journey in each one of them. I would love to dive into each one of them, but can you quickly share with our listeners how you shaped the book and how you organized it and what each of these four sections does?

Melissa (03:43):
Sure. It’s really broken out so we can talk about the period of time just before the kids leave, and then the period of time, I guess, after they’ve left, and how we sort of search for a new life with meaning. And then perhaps for those who have worked or who maybe never have worked before, to find a path kind of to reinvention after they’ve gone, as well. But I think the hardest part for me and the part that got me started with this book was this idea of letting go, letting go of that mothering instinct. It’s sort of hard to say goodbye to. It’s our knee-jerk reaction from the moment we just hold them in our arms. To parent someone for all those years and then say, “Okay, I think you got it,” and watch them sort of walk away, it’s easier said than done for most people.

Katie (04:51):
I agree. And one of the things that I honed in on in the intro setup chapter, you shared that this is a very universal common phenomenon. That every year, three million women are becoming empty nesters. So, we have a lot of company. But there is this stereotype that persists that women who struggle with this, with the letting go, and reinventing, and reimagining their lives, that are feeling sadness are somehow women who “don’t have a life”. If your life is full and magical you wouldn’t mind if your kids went away. I would love to hear more about that because I can see that you could experience both a sense of loss and have an amazing life of your own. 

You interviewed a range of women for this book. You touched on it; you talked to therapists, you talked to women in your own life, you talked to experts. What did you find? Tell me a little bit about this notion of sadness. Is it something that you’re seeing in different types of people?

Melissa (05:57):
You know, I think it was universal. I guess the degree to which people felt it and how they expressed it, is what varied. But I did reach out because I was curious about that very thing. Was it just me? Was it people who were like me? Whatever that meant exactly. So, a lot of the women I talked to were very career-focused, in fact, extremely busy with their own lives, and their own identities apart from their children, who are a very important part of their lives. And they had the same experience and were feeling all of the same feels as the women that I spoke with that perhaps weren’t working full time or didn’t have a career. So, that was sort of a big moment, a big lightbulb moment for me.

Katie (06:52):
Well, you at one point share in the book, I don’t know if you read this about Madonna or if you were lucky enough to talk to her, but you said that Madonna at one point, maybe it was in an interview, that when her older sister was going through this, she thought she was being a big drama queen, how could this be so sad? And then lo and behold a few years later, her own daughter was going and she was devastated and so depressed. And you know, Madonna’s got a life. [laughs]

Melissa (07:19):
She does have a life, she definitely has a busy life. I didn’t speak to her, I saw the quote and it really resonated with me. It really stuck with me that that was a perfect example of someone who was living her life to the fullest and that, how it made her feel when they were leaving the nest.

Katie (07:39):
So, let’s dive into the first part of the book. I think it’s the setup where you have a series of chapters, it’s called “Letting go of the mothering instinct.” And you talk about, and it’s sort of this notion, it’s not just that your children are leaving physically, but that you’re letting go of a big part of how you’ve behaved toward them, and how you’ve nurtured them. It’s not so much the absence of the physical presence, it’s this shift in your relationship. And at one point you talk about making the shift from mother to mentor, and I love that. Can you talk a little bit more about that and how we can incorporate that practice into our own lives?

Melissa (08:19):
Well, I spoke to, as you mentioned, a lot of professionals. A lot of therapists, a lot of counselors, and this was one thing they all talked about. It’s a really important shift to make. It’s not that you’re going to stop being a parent, but there’s a kind of parent thing, a part of parenting when they’re under the same roof and they’re under 18, that we’re actively parenting. And what they all recommend is that we need to make that shift and it needs to be a gradual shift. One of many reasons you don’t want to wait until your kids leave home before you start to do this, it’s a gradual process of letting go. The visual analogy for me, that I like to use, is to imagine two trains on two separate tracks and they’re riding parallel to one another, but you need at one point to veer off in one direction and let your child veer off in another. And it’s not that those tracks and those trains won’t come back together again, they will, but you do need to let them take the reins more often. You’re not abandoning them. A lot of women that I spoke with were worried that their children would think you were sort of abandoning them by doing that, but you’re not. You let them know that you’ll always be there, but they’ve gotta try new things. If they mess up, they’ll learn how to do it better the next time, and you’re there for them.

Katie (09:50):
And there’s a chance that maybe these kids want to be “abandoned”. [laughs] Maybe they’re ready to step into their own thing. It’s funny, you jogged a little thought in my head. My soon-to-be departing 18-year-old just got his debit card, it came in the mail. It was the renewed debit card, and I opened it and I was about to renew it for him, and then I was like, “Wait a minute." Because we’d had this conversation. I went upstairs and said, “Milo here’s your new debit card, you need to activate it.” And it would have taken me 30 seconds because I was like going through all the mail, but he’d never heard of this. The notion of activating your debit card was new to him. He said, “How do I do that?” I said, “There’s a sticker printed on your debit card, why don’t you give it a read and work it out? They make it pretty easy.” And he did, and he was happy, and he put it back in his wallet. But it’s so easy as a mom to kind of own all of those behaviors and those actions, where we need to really let our kids start making these choices.

Melissa (10:48):
And you really zoned in on that actually, when you said it would have been really easy for you to do that, that’s exactly right. And I think we just get in this habit of doing it because it’s quicker, it’s easier. But by doing that we sort of enable the behavior where they don’t know those processes and they don’t understand those intricacies and it’s important that they do it; from making doctor’s appointments and getting to the doctor’s themselves, if possible, introducing them to the concept of how much certain things cost if they’re not already familiar, you know, getting groceries, getting supplies. Especially in this day and age, for those who do order things online and being able to just go online and order it, and I know we’ve needed to, during COVID especially, but you know, there are gonna be times where they’re not able to do that, especially if they’re living away at school. So, you want them to be able to figure these things out on their own.

Katie (11:46):
Yeah, absolutely. The practical life skills, that’s so important, I love that. So, in a minute, we’re gonna take a quick break, and then we’re gonna come back to talk about the second part of the book which is very, it’s got a great title, it’s called “Wallowing in the past and sitting on the couch,” which I can’t wait to explore. But we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back we’ll figure out how to get off that couch.

Melissa (12:10):
Okay.

[Ad break]

Katie (13:22):
All right, we’re back Melissa. We’re all excited, we’re on pins and needles. When we’re wallowing in the couch, is that a healthy and important part of this process of letting go? And once we sort of work our way through that, how do we get ourselves up off the couch and reinhabit our much emptier, quieter, home?

Melissa (13:44):
I think it’s healthy. If you feel like lying on the couch, lie on the couch. You kinda gotta let yourself go through that process, it’s natural. And if you berate yourself for it, I think you’re doing yourself a disservice, you’re feeling it. But then after a little while, you do need to give yourself permission to get up and take center stage in your own life again. I always use that commercial, I don’t know if you remember, there was a L’Oréal hair commercial, it was a long time ago, it was in the seventies but one of the tag lines I think was something like, “Because I’m worth it.” And that’s something we need to remind ourselves of. So, while you’re lying there and you’re trying to figure things out. When you think you’ve given it a good amount of time on that couch, then you gotta say, you know I gotta get up, and I gotta get up because I’m worth it. 

So, what’s next for me and really start focusing on turning that light on you, what do you wanna do, who do you wanna be? And if you’re happy with where you are and who you are and you have the people in your life and the support network that you love, great, go seek them out, make sure they know how you might be feeling, say, “I need some company.” And some of those friendships that you have had, I would just let everyone know, that they may not always be there. Some of them may last into eternity, others you’ll find, as I found, and many of the women I spoke to found that they were there for a really special time in their lives as parents, and perhaps you’ll move on and meet new people for this next time in your life. Don’t be afraid to explore that either.

Katie (15:32):
That’s so interesting. I can’t remember where I heard this, but it’s this notion of having friends for a reason, for a season, and for life. Maybe the reason is you’re all in nursery school together, maybe the season was the phases of life when you were on the sidelines of sports together or whatever it is, you’re having that. And that kind of changes as well. So, this is starting to feel like a lot of potential loss. Now your kids are moving and your friendships are… [laughs]

Melissa (16:01):
No, I don’t want people to think that. It’s not that it’s a loss, but sometimes what I heard in my interviews was that there are friendships that you try and try and try to keep up and there’s nothing to replace them and especially that time in your life. It’s something that’s unspoken between you, but it may not be as constant in your life. Where you might see them all the time when they’re growing up, as hard as you try, you might not be able to make that connection because you start to change a little bit. Some people change with you and some don’t. You know, it’s all about what you’re experiencing at that time in your life. So, just don’t be surprised, I did meet people who were surprised by some of the friendships that had fallen away but they were also very pleasantly surprised by some of the friendships they made that they didn’t think they’d be able to make at midlife, especially. Brand new friendships where they connected instantly over new things that had mostly just to do with who they were as individuals as opposed to perhaps, being a parent.

Katie (17:06):
Right, that makes so much sense. I love the notion of just having your eyes open and being aware that this period of transition might manifest itself in other ways beyond simply your kids leaving. This sort of notion that your friendships may alter. And if you’re aware of it, it’s just easier to process. I remember when my daughter grace who’s now 20 and in her second year of university, when she was going, I said, “You should be prepared for the fact that you might be really homesick. It takes a while to make new friends. You’re gonna get put on a hall and you’re gonna have a roommate and it’s gonna be amazing, but it takes months to have really close friendships, the ones that you’re letting go.” I didn’t want to scare her, but there’s this whole fantasy that college is the best time of your life, and I really wanted her to understand that if she didn’t feel incredible by week two, that that was natural. I think sometimes you’re sold this bill of good about how things are gonna be. If you’re cognizant of that, that that might be out there, it helps you move through it as you’re experiencing it. So, this is great that you’re flagging this for people.

So, let’s talk about the third section of the book, which to me, is kind of a lot of the meat of the book. When you’re talking about living with new meaning and new purpose. You focus on a couple of different aspects, but you talk about changing your outlook, kind of creating resiliency, and sort of learning how to define happiness for yourself in this. I would love to hear you share with our listeners more about this section of the book and what it offers.

Melissa (18:43):

Well, you know, the biggest concern of women that I spoke with, for those who are married or in a relationship, a long-term relationship, was what was going to happen to that love connection. So, that’s probably the most important thing for us to talk about, at least for a couple of minutes here.

Katie (19:05):
Yeah, go for it.

Melissa (19:06):
You know, going out on a date with your partner, and spending more than 15 minutes not talking about your kids, at least, is really, really an interesting test to see if there are other things that you can discuss.

Katie (19:23):
What if you can’t? [laughs] What happens if you can’t Melissa? Tell us.

Melissa (19:28):
Oh my gosh.

Katie (19:29):
I’m joking, but still.

Melissa (19:30):
My husband and I went out, we started these lunch dates while the kids were still in high school. It seemed so simple, but you know, Saturdays were always just packed with taking them five million different places and being at different events and games so, we started sort of carving out this time for ourselves, and the very first few dates were pretty awkward. We did this test and it was brutal trying to make it through 15 minutes [Katie laughs] without wanting to mention something about the kids. It literally got funny, we’d start cracking each other up. The more we’d start laughing about it the more fun we had, and the less even that my husband was grabbing the newspapers that they had at this cafe to read for these lapses in time. So, I highly recommend that if you’re not doing that —and many couples do, they’re always in conversation— but for those who find that they’re sort of tabling issues and not necessarily just talking about each other the way you once did perhaps, before there were children in your life, that you start doing that. And then you’ll find that the dialogue will continue, long after they’ve moved out. I don’t know if I’ve just answered your question either, so there’s more there.

Katie (20:54):
Yeah, no the chapter is great. It explores a lot of different areas. So, what happens if you don’t have a romantic partner? Because, you know, divorce is very common, I’ve done a show on divorce earlier in season two which was wonderful, and we learned that a lot of marriages end in divorce and a lot of them are happening now. So, if you are a single parent or perhaps you’re co-parenting with somebody and your children leave and then you’re truly maybe living by yourself, did you explore that at all in your book? And what would your recommendations be?

Melissa (21:27):
Friendships, absolutely. Friends that become family, friends that make you laugh. You want people around that inspire you to be your best self. Who you admire, and who you feel the same from, you get the same sense that they appreciate you and that you value your time together. It’s a really wonderful way to help you move forward with your life and you in turn, undoubtedly, are helping them move forward with theirs.

Katie (22:04):
I agree. Friends, we did a show as well on female friendships and the power of them and explore the science-backed benefits of having women in your life and that sense of intimacy that’s not romantic, that just is really, that sense of trust, that sense of being seen, and known, and supported. It’s so valuable. 

Melissa (22:30):
There are also passions and careers, the things you’re most interested in. What have you wanted to do in your life that perhaps you weren’t able to do, perhaps because you were raising a family? Are there things you’ve always wanted to try? From the littlest thing to the biggest thing. Are there places you’ve always wanted to go? Are there ways to sort of rework your time and your finances so that you can start achieving those things? Because again, that spotlight that you’ve been shining on your kids, and certainly, I’m sure, on yourself as well, but you know, honestly most women who I spoke with talked about how —even while they were shining it and achieving things— they still found that it was, of course, tilted towards the kids. So, how can you sort of redirect that, be there for your kids, redirect that so that you can make some of your own dreams come true, while you’re still dreaming them? 

Katie (23:35):
And how do you do that? Like, what would be your recommendations for women who needed help moving from, “I’m not sure what’s next” to, “I’m feeling more confident that I’m on the right track”? Because I think even the notion sometimes can be paralyzing of like, “Well tap back into your passions,” and if you’re thinking, “I don’t even remember what they are.” What would you recommend there?

Melissa (23:57):
Right. Well, that’s the hardest part. I think it does start with that whole notion of because I’m worth it. So, you’ve gotta pump yourself up. I know that’s easier said than done but I find that you know, when you start doing that, it becomes a little bit of a mantra for yourself. You reach out, you talk to other people. Don’t be afraid to say, “Hey I’m in this place in my life. You got to this place in your life, tell me a little bit about your journey.” Let yourself be inspired by the journeys of people and women who have perhaps gotten to a place you’d like to, you know, get to or do something similar to. 

In the book, I list a lot of sources and resources, and assessments that you might want to take to help you figure out how what you’ve done and accomplished so far in your life might translate to other areas of interest or work or possibilities. And for those women who haven’t worked outside the home, or who have but in the capacity that they would like to sort of transition away from, there are lots of things that you did, and continue to do, as a mom, as a parent, that translates in surprising ways to jobs. I mean if you think about it, you’re sort of a physician, a nurse, an insurance expert, a house builder, a decorator, a banker, you know, you’re a lot of things to a lot of people.

Katie (25:34):
Of course, and you’ve got high EQ, and the ability to multitask. So, that’s for women who’ve maybe stepped off the sort of the corporate path or the paid work path and are at home. There are tons of resources. I’m sure that people will find them in the book, there’s a lot of programs helping women return to work after career breaks, iRelaunch or PowerToFly, a number of wonderful organizations where people are kind of resurfacing. I’ve had a couple of friends in my own life who after anywhere sort of, off ramped maybe for 5 years but up to 20 years. I’m thinking of two of my dear friends in particular, one was 5 one was 20 with their career breaks and they both went back to school around the time that they knew they needed to re-enter; one as her kids were going off to college, and the other as her young kids were going off to kindergarten. And you know, they got new degrees, and they started new careers and are both knocking it out of the park with their current work. I talked to both of them as they were beginning to launch that and there was this sense of, “Am I in over my head? Like, Woah, I haven’t been back to school in 20 years, can I do this?” It’s like, “Yeah you can, and guess what? You’re doing it.”

Melissa (26:50):
Right. And again, that’s where surrounding yourself with people, and when I say surround, your surround could be a one really wonderful, human. It doesn’t need to be, it’s different for everybody. Some people like a whole big posse of people, you know, some only need one. But find your people, your person, and if you can’t find that people or person, I think you’ll find groups online. Especially now, there are just lots of opportunities online to find groups of people that you can talk to and say: this is what I’m looking to do. And people really I do think want to pay it forward. If they’ve been in a similar spot they want to reach out and help you be the best person you can be. 

I think we’ve all especially learned now how much more precious time is than we ever thought before and we thought it before. So, there really are great resources out there. If you’re worried about time and of course, expense, there are much shorter courses now that I’m hearing great things about from lots of women, who are taking sort of certification courses and that’s also sort of reinvigorating their career or changing their career path. So, you get certified in something in a much shorter way than perhaps going back to school. They have 6-month course, or 1-year courses, or even sometimes 3-month certification courses.

Katie (28:22):
Right, and that’s particularly true, you can do those. I actually did one at eCornell, a course in leadership. I work with clients who have tech skills or programming languages which are always changing. So, you can easily take a course in that and get yourself back up. 

So, these are wonderful ideas for women who have maybe stepped off and are looking to come back, what about women who have worked all along? And spent, you know, 20 years doing both and navigating either a corporate or not even a corporate career, maybe they were a teacher or ran a small business or whatever you did for your work and your kids, but you’re now looking at still what’s next with your career. Because you too have the opportunity to rethink because you have this new time. Do you have slightly different recommendations for them or is it still the same? Identify your purpose, identify what your definition of happiness is. 

Melissa (29:24):
You know, sometimes when you want to move forward and you’ve reached a certain point in your life and you know, perhaps more about what you don’t want to do I think than what you do want to do. I really believe that that’s what happens for a lot of parents sort of at midlife. If they don’t know exactly what they want to do, they definitely know what they don’t want to do. And that happened even for me. I reached that stage probably two or three times, I like to think of it as my every ten-year reinvention.

Katie (30:01):
Sounds good.

Melissa (30:01):
So, I knew what I didn’t want to do anymore, I knew that I did not want to be in a sort of, an environment where I was wearing suits and even heels and…

Katie (30:15):
And what had you been doing Melissa, before? 

Melissa (30:18):
My last round I was director of creative services for a trade association that represented the food industry. So, and I was in Washington DC and I loved the people I worked with but I reached a point where I just didn’t want to have to give up so much to achieve what I hoped to achieve. And there wasn’t a way for me to get balance within that structure. So, I took from that, what I thought I did okay in, which was writing and editing. And I thought about how I might try to build some kind of a career for that and how much money I’d need to make it happen if I left and started you know, reaching out quietly to people who might need help along those lines, who I had worked with before.

 Katie (31:14):
And was this before or after you wrote the book? So, did you write the book and then look to…

Melissa (31:18):
Before,

Katie (31:19):
So, before.

Melissa (31:20): 

It was before.

Katie (31:20):
And so did you, were you working when you wrote the book? Fill us in on where the book fits into your transition and perhaps what you’re doing now. 

Melissa (31:28):
Yes, I was working and actually, I worked for myself so I went freelance which was sort of feeling like I was taking a giant leap off a mountain. But I did all the responsible things and got certain kinds of insurances and made all kinds of plans. My husband and I checked, crossed every T, and dotted every I that we could, you never know what’s going to come down the pike. But it gave me some flexibility to have what I hoped would be “it all”, which of course I’ve since learned you can’t really have it all. [Katie laughs] But it did give me opportunities, it forced me to grow and think and reach out to different kinds of people and really examine what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. And I kind of made a little list for myself of things that I hoped to achieve and tried to really think about why I wanted to achieve those things. What was the driving force?  

So, a couple more of those things where to find some way to write on a regular basis in a style that wasn’t just for business. And that’s when I started doing some essay writing for a local paper and got a column in the local paper every week and that sort of grew and blossomed and I started contributing to other newspapers and that grew, and then to magazines and the magazines went from local to national. And it took a while, but I gained confidence, and every time I moved forward I’d also take a couple of steps back, but it still felt right. It felt more right than anything I’d ever done.  

Eventually, I actually started a card business with a dear friend of mine. That was a long-time goal because at one point I wanted to be a photojournalist, I thought. That was one of those dreams that you have when you’re very young. And I thought, “Why not?” And I wanted to touch back on some of those things that I mentioned, that I dreamed of when I was younger before I had kids, and then I had kids and it got harder to do. And so, we started it. Unfortunately, we started it and Katie, oh my gosh, we were living near Dallas at the time, and a very rare tornado blew through in this one particular swath and it blew down the store and that shopping center where our cards made their first appearance when we finally got them to be in a retail store and actually I was told…

Katie (34:04):
That is not fair!

Melissa (34:06):
No. actually they told me that when all was said and done in that store —which is a wonderful store, which has since found a new home— that the only thing that was left was the greeting cards. That was the only thing that was left standing, no walls, no ceiling, everything was everywhere, but the greeting cards survived. There’s something in that, I’ve gotta analyze. 

Katie (34:25):
Wow. 

Melissa (34:26):
But then right after that, COVID hit, and then nobody was going into stores anyway to buy cards. So, that’s a dream, we’ve got all this inventory and we have to think about going back to it, and then we’re gonna be moving forward.

Katie (34:41):
Etsy shop. Melissa, Etsy shop. [laughs]

Melissa (34:45):
Yeah. But the next thing was—

Katie (34:46):
The From Mom to Me Again Etsy.

So, then the book came after the cards or before?

Melissa (34:51):
The book came before the cards. So, the book was on this list of the sort of ten-year goals. What can I do? What’s achievable? How can I achieve it? And then the other thing was I’d always wanted to write a children’s book. My kids and I used to make up stories together. It was one of the parts of them growing up that I loved the most and so, I actually wrote a story and it’s gonna get published by a company called Familius. Traditional publishing takes a bit, so it’ll be 2023, but it’s based on a true story about one of my sons and it’s called, What Will I Do if I Miss You? 

Katie (35:32):
Congratulations Melissa, that’s amazing. That’s amazing, I love this story. Also, I love, and I hope everyone who is listening to this show today, is asking the question of themselves that you asked yourself which is: why not? Why not? Why not do my card business? Why not try this children’s book? Because sometimes we don’t give ourselves that opportunity to just put ourselves out there and try something new. So, that’s amazing and such phenomenal advice. And I think we’re gonna have to wrap on that because I’m not sure it can get any better than, why not and then just to go for it.

Melissa, before we do wrap though, I do want to ask you if there is something either in the book or like a tool that you use when you were making your own transition that you really think that women should know about if they’re nervous about this next phase of their life?

Melissa (36:26):
Well, I’d hope that there’s information in this book that would help everyone at some point in their transition. Be it friendships, be it the love connection, or careers that are in the book that I hope will help them. But in another path, there is a site that AARP has that I contribute to and it’s relatively new, it’s called The Ethel, it’s actually a newsletter, and I think it runs twice a month on Wednesdays. And there are lots of really interesting stories in there by women, who are 50 and over and about women who are 50 and over, about all the things we talked about today. So, I think there’s an opportunity there for women to maybe connect with other people because to me, stories and reading about other people’s stories, of not just successes, but failures and sadnesses and concerns, I find that universal experience to be what [Inaudible 37:32][1]  me and helps me understand that I’m not alone and that there are ways around things when we feel like there aren’t.

Katie (37:42):
Absolutely, I love that. I will put both The Ethel and the book in the show notes so our listeners can find them. And how can our listeners keep following you and your work? 

Melissa (37:53):
Well, I do contribute to The Ethel now and again so hopefully, you’ll find some of my stories there. And when I’m good and I’m trying to be much better, [Katie laughs] I post on my Instagram, @melts, like ice cream, 4, so M-E-L-T-S 4.

Katie (38:10):
@melts4. Okay terrific. Melissa, thank you so much, it was such a treat having you here today.

Melissa (38:15):

 Thank you, it was a pleasure.

Katie (38:17):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. If you enjoyed this week’s show, please head to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to review the show, because reviews help us grow so, do your thing. And consider signing up for A Certain Age newsletter, Age Boldly. Each week, we let you know when the latest show airs, give bonus content, and pass along ideas for micro joys and inspiration. Head to www.acertainagepod.com to add this weekly inspo to your inbox.  

Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties. 

Season Three
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Global Advocate Jody Day on Living a Childless Life
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Going Grey in a World That’s Not with Silver Hair Evangelist Katie Goes Platinum