Nutritionist Jenn Salib Huber Dishes on Midlife Food Freedom, Body Confidence and How to Thrive During Menopause
Show Snapshot:
Ready to “undiet” your life and embrace gentle nutrition to nourish your changing midlife body? Meet intuitive eating advocate Dr. Jenn Salib Huber aka “The Menopause Nutritionist.” Jenn is a certified dietitian, naturopathic doctor, and host of The Midlife Feast podcast.
Jenn offers supportive food, health, and hormone education, along with a big heaping of body confidence to women in midlife without a side dish of diet culture.
We get into the hormonal soup of midlife, how menopause nutrition can help tame symptoms, and how to find food freedom – and adopt nutrition habits to fuel longevity --- and peace of mind. No calorie counting required!
Show Links:
Follow Jenn
Jenn’s podcast: The Midlife Feast
Quotable:
There's a whole lot of hierarchy and food morality that comes into discussions around food. Is it good? And is it bad? Are we good people because we have salad for lunch? Or are we being quote bad because we're eating at a restaurant? One of the principles of intuitive eating…is to stop food policing.
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty 0:03
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Beauties, if you are generation a-certain-age, you've probably lived through the tyranny of the food pyramid, the rise of fat free and the advent of SnackWell's, and the perplexing allure of Lean Cuisine. I mean, seriously, what in the name of all that is bossy, and barely edible food nonsense, is that? It's a miracle we made it to midlife and yet, and still, food, nutrition, Hollywood beauty standards, aging changing bodies. For many, food is a complicated, loaded, triggering subject. I'm excited to welcome to the show today, Jenn Salib Huber, a registered dietician, naturopathic doctor, and intuitive eating advocate. You may know her by her social media handle @menopause.nutrionist, or you may be a fan of her podcast, The Midlife Feast, or you may just be meeting her here today. Any which way, you're in for a treat. Jenn offers lovely, supportive food, health, and hormone education, along with a big heaping of body confidence to women in midlife, without a side dish of diet culture. We're getting into the hormone soup of midlife, how menopause nutrition can help tame symptoms, and how to find food freedom, and adopt nutrition habits to fuel longevity and peace of mind. Welcome, Jenn.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 1:25
Thank you very much for that lovely intro.
Katie Fogarty 1:28
Jenn, I'm excited for this conversation. I follow your work and coaching over Instagram, I've dipped in and out of your podcast. You have fantastic advice and I know it's needed. My most downloaded show of last year was on sort of reversing midlife weight gain and protein timing and building muscle mass. And this is, you know, content and information that women are interested in. And I want to explore, you know, your take on how to, you know, optimize nutrition for peace of mind and for overall health and well being. But before we get into some of your tactical advice, I would just love to start with a quick intro. You know, can you give us a snapshot of your career and how and why did you get into menopause nutrition coaching?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 2:16
Yeah, you know, it's really funny because I think like most things that, you know, become the thing that you're doing that you love to do - so kind of, you know, your passion project, or whatever it is - it's a little bit of luck, a little bit of serendipity, and I think just a lot of being in the aging stage myself, I really felt like it became what I wanted to focus on. So backtrack a little bit. I've been studying nutrition since 1995. I became a registered dietitian, just before y2k. And since then, you know, went on to study naturopathic medicine and had a really what I call the general practice for about 10 years. But it was when my own experience of crash landing into perimenopause at 37, which was a little bit earlier than most, you know, when I crash landed into that age and stage of my own life and realized just how much was changing, that even as a medical health and nutrition professional I wasn't prepared for, really made me realize, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't alone, my experience wasn't going to be unique. And then combined with an international move, and the opportunity to do things a little bit differently, I've really spent the last, you know, three to four years working with women in midlife, especially those who are maybe at a crossroads of, I've been doing something one way for the last 25 years. And that one way is usually trying to control my body with food. And I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing that, I want to have a relationship with food that is nourishing and peaceful and joyful, and also helpful, but not at the expense of my mental health. So that's really kind of where my intuitive eating training and background came in, then I wanted to kind of create this, this environment for people to maybe try different instead of harder.
Katie Fogarty 4:01
Okay, I love this. So tell me a little bit more about intuitive eating cause I've seen that phrase in magazines, and sort of on social media. And of course, in your own work. I would love to hear what your definition of intuitive eating is and how it works, you know, and when it's applied.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 4:18
Yeah, well, the great news is that I don't have to define it because it's actually well defined. So intuitive eating is a framework that was developed by Evelyn Trybole and Elise Rice, two dieticians in the 90s. And it has since been supported by, you know, well over 100 research studies, the principles of it, it's based on 10 principles that roughly encompass this idea of an anti diet mentality so that we don't have to be following a set of rules. We don't have to be, you know, counting, measuring, tracking in order to know when to eat, what to eat, how much to eat, and it really kind of expands the definition of a relationship with food to be so much more than just providing us with nutrition in the form of macronutrients, for example. And, you know, it provides I think, a little bit more flexibility for body diversity, that bodies can and do come in all shapes and sizes. Moving away from this, you know, thin ideal that certainly our generation was exposed to thanks to, you know, Jane Fonda and Oprah and all those people who really basically tried to kill themselves to make themselves you know, smaller. You know, it just is how do we go back to food being something that we just do, that it's not something that becomes an obsession, and it's not something that we have to think about all the time? My favorite saying is, you know, we have to make decisions about food, every single day of our life multiple times a day, and often for other people. How can we put any kind of expectation of perfect on that?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think getting to midlife teaches us that perfect is just, you know, a myth.
Is it ever.
Katie Fogarty 5:19
That we, you know, and then we apply that to so many things in our life. And you know you, some of the words that you use really just sort of, you know, resonated with me as sort of joyful and easy and, you know, freer when we think about food and dieting. So intuitive eating, it sounds like there's sort of 10 sort of core, maybe, I know they're not rules, because a part of the intuitive eating sounds like it's the anti, you know, rule, it's the anti, you know, you must do this or not do that kind of approach. But what are some sort of the core principles, because, you know, food has, you know, changed over the years. I mean, when we, as humans have evolved in, you know, in so many different ways over the millennia, and frankly, our foods gotten weird. You know, when I mentioned SnackWell's earlier and Lean Cuisine, I had a friend from college who adored Lean Cuisine, and I'm like, that stuff is like insane looking. You know, we have TV dinners, and like, you know, we have Supersize Me and that kind of stuff. So if we do want to have a freer, healthier relationship with food, are there particular types of foods that we should be eating that are you know, is it, is it Whole Foods? Is it organic foods? Tell us a little bit more about that?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 7:06
Well, that's a really good question. And, you know, so there on the one hand, yes, food matters. Of course I'm, no one, I think, should say that it doesn't. But it really doesn't matter in the way that we've been led to believe, and especially that our generation was led to believe, that there was a perfect way, a one way, the only way. You know, there's a whole lot of hierarchy, and food morality that comes into discussions around food. Is it good? And is it bad? Or is this you know, it's, are we good people because we have salad for lunch? Or are we being quote bad because we're you know, eating at a restaurant? So one of the principles of intuitive eating as we get out of this diet mentality is to stop food policing. So we like to talk about the role, what is the role of food? The role of food is to nourish us. And we can do that in many different ways. But we probably are going to feel best if we're doing that by building balanced plates that include all the macronutrients. And that's really true for women in midlife. There's, as you know, as I'm sure your listeners know, there's a lot of food rules that are thrown around, that women should or shouldn't do as they go through perimenopause and menopause. For example, carbohydrates, that's one of my favorite ones to try and myth-bust. But the idea that we have to avoid or always include one particular food group really isn't based on evidence, and I think most of us kind of hopefully know that by now. So when we're talking about building balance plates, we're talking about including foods that are high in protein, including foods that you know, are a good source of fiber, getting more plants on our plate, including heart healthy supporting fats, like, you know, avocados, and nuts and seeds and olive oil, but not at the expense of foods that we enjoy just for the sake of enjoying them. And that's where I think the intuitive eating approach feels a little bit gentler and easier, and in fact, is in line with, you know, the principle of gentle nutrition, that we can still think about nutrition, I can still choose vegetables with my meal, because they're good for me, but also because I enjoy them. And I'm not going to not have dessert, because I'm being good by having a salad, if that makes sense.
Katie Fogarty 9:21
Yeah, I love this notion of, you know, sort of the moral weight that we assigned foods and how that could be compromising our enjoyment and just our overall peace when it comes to it. This notion of gentle nutrition is something that also sounds delightful. You know, we get to a certain age and we want to sort of be kinder and nicer to ourselves, and I think we've gotten, we've gotten better at that. But you know, obviously there's work to do. Jenn, we're heading into a quick break but when we come back I want to drill down a little bit more into the link between nutrition and menopause and how nutrition can help be a friend, you know, in managing our menopause symptoms.
[AD BREAK]
We're back from the break. You use words like gentle nutrition, you talked about, you know, how we can nourish our bodies. I've done so many shows on perimenopause and menopause but we haven't really talked explicitly about the link between nutrition and menopause and, and how it might help us manage some of those symptoms. You mentioned carbs and myth-busting. I'd love to hear a little bit about your take on how our food choices can help us manage the symptoms that arise when we head into perimenopause and beyond.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 11:58
I'd love to and this is actually an area that I feel pretty well versed in because my own experience of going into perimenopause early led me down the road of wanting desperately to use hormone therapy, menopause hormone therapy, and tried for the better part of a year and just couldn't make it work for me. I still think it's a great option for other people but there are definitely others out there like me who want it, don't have any reason not to try it, but just don't feel better on it. And so that was one of the things that prompted me to look into this a little bit more. Are there foods, are there things, that I can include or welcome, or maybe choose less of, that will help to manage symptoms like hot flashes, for example? So the first is caffeine. And I think a lot of people already know this, you know, I used to be able to drink 12 cups of coffee when I was 20. I think I would fall over dead and go up in flames if I drank that much now. But you know -
Katie Fogarty 12:53
We're hot enough, Jenn, we're hot enough, we do not need to be bursting into flames.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 12:57
- No, but so, you know, having a lot of caffeine and, or even just hot beverages if you're having hot flashes in particular, can really prompt those. And I think a lot of people have noticed that. Similarly with alcohol, alcohol will, you know contribute to dehydration, can increase our heart rate, anything that increases heart rate can also bring on a hot flash. There's also, you know, the sleep disrupting effects of alcohol. So not saying that, you know, you have to give it up, but a lot of people will notice that having less of it in midlife helps us to feel better, which is always the goal. But for people who are really having a lot of hot flashes, I like to teach them about phytoestrogen rich foods, in particular soy foods and flax, beans and lentils. These are foods that contain plant compounds that can bind, very weakly, to our own estrogen receptors. And while it doesn't work for everyone, it really does work for many people and myself included to help try and keep some of those hot flashes at bay. So that's kind of one of my little passion projects is making sure that people know that there is an option to try. It's not ever meant to be on par with HRT, so I would never tell someone that you know they have to choose, because you can actually do both. But if you're finding yourself in a position where HRT isn't an option for you, it's great to know that this is.
Katie Fogarty 14:16
So let's talk a little bit about soy. So are we talking about more tofu? Is it something, a soy smoothie, soy milk? How would we -
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 14:24
All of it.
Katie Fogarty 14:25
All of it, okay.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 14:25
Yeah, so we're talking about the soy, whole soy foods. So this would be soy beans like edamame, tofu, soy milk, soy, nuts even. We're not usually talking about soy supplements or isoflavonoid supplements. At this point we're not really talking about even things like soy protein isolate, just because the processing of it tends to make the amount of phytoestrogens that make it to the powder very variable. So some might be really high, some might be really low. And because there are so many other benefits, including supporting lower chlolesterol and blood sugar and even potentially, you know, bone health, to including these foods, I like to really help people to include them more often. So yeah, we're mainly talking about soy foods.
Katie Fogarty 14:43
Okay, great. And bone health is so important. I've had a show on osteoporosis, you know, we really explored the impact of menopause on bone health in that and, you know, I know that we can do things like, you know, fitness, and we can do exercises that impact our bone health. But you know, in terms of nutrition, this is something that we want to really focus on because more women suffer from osteoporosis, especially post-menopause. So beyond what you just outlined, what are some other bone healthy foods that we can incorporate, particularly for not doing HRT, which can perhaps have mitigating effects against osteoporosis and bone loss?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 15:53
Yeah, and the discussion around bone loss always needs to start with that, it's, it's much more difficult to build a bone after the age of 40. And so most of what we're talking about is slowing the rate of loss.
Katie Fogarty 16:05
Gotcha.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 16:04
We all lose bone as we get older, that's an inevitability. And some women can lose up to 20% of their bone, bone density post-menopause. So it's no joke, we're not talking about nothing here. Protein is something that we think about for muscles, but it actually is also important for supporting bone. So making sure that you're able to include good regular sources of protein at most meals is, you know, definitely a great gentle nutrition suggestion to include. There are other things that can factor into individual risks with osteoporosis because of course, like everything else, there are some you know, genetics. People who are of smaller, shorter stature, people who are, you know, pale skin, lighter skin, people who have been on certain types of medication. So there isn't a one and done thing, we do know that calcium supplements don't seem to protect us from fractures the way that we used to want them to, or hope that they did. But it is still important to include lots of calcium rich foods in your diet. So this would be things like we all know, like dairy products, but also including things like you know, cooked leafy greens. So for example, raw, a cup of raw spinach, you know, will have in the range of 90 to 100 milligrams of calcium. But if you have a cup of cooked spinach, you're, you know, upwards of 200 milligrams. So understanding which foods are high in calcium, and how to best enjoy them to get the most out of them, is definitely part of the gentle nutrition conversations that I love to have.
Katie Fogarty 17:31
I love this. So, and I also love cooked spinach, so that's something, that's something that I added in later life. But I tend to like it like super garlicy from, you know, a Chinese restaurant, so. But I do make it at home as well and I'm going to continue to do that. Talk about the, you said myth-busting around carbs was something that you said a little bit earlier in the show. And you know, while we're talking about specific types of foods, let's get into carbs. What is the myth that most people have around this? And why do you want to bust it open?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 18:00
Well, the biggest myth around it is that carbs cause weight gain. We've heard this now for you know, 20 or 30 years. It started with Atkins, it was amplified with Keto, and just a whole bunch of misinformation around what's called the carbohydrate insulin model of weight regulation. So the, you know, the standard line or story is that when you eat carbohydrates, your insulin levels go up. And insulin is how we store extra energy as fat. Therefore, if we reduce the rise in insulin, or if we avoid it altogether, then we won't gain weight and we'll lose weight. But this carbohydrate insulin model of weight regulation has been debunked in, you know, studies so many times. I just, you know, it still really boggles my mind that it comes up as this really, really prevalent myth. Because weight regulation isn't about just one thing. And carbohydrates aren't the only thing that that rise insulin, that bring insulin levels up. Protein, for example, although to a lesser extent, protein will also increase insulin levels, but you don't see any of the low carb people cutting out their protein. In fact, they're doubling down on protein. So we know that there's no reason to avoid them. But when it comes to midlife health, we really want to be thinking about, you know, 10, 20, 30 years down the road. And there are some valuable nutrients that we can primarily only get from carbohydrates, or in much more delicious ways. And fiber is one of them. You don't want to be skimping on fiber at any age, but especially in midlife.
Katie Fogarty 19:29
Why is that Jenn?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 19:30
Well fiber is, you know, it's the secret sauce. So it's a very boring adult topic to talk about fiber, but -
Katie Fogarty 19:36
Jenn, you are talking to these people. And I'm curious, tell us. I really want to know, why fiber?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 19:41
Yeah, so when we're talking about fiber, we're talking about the parts of plants that we don't digest. They keep our gut bacteria very happy and well fed. Everybody I think knows that fiber is one of the things that helps us poop regularly, but it also helps to reduce cholesterol levels, which for women in midlife and menopause, our cholesterol levels can expect to go up by 10 or 15% within a year of our last period. Higher fiber intakes are one of the things that can help to lower blood sugar and help to manage early insulin resistance or pre diabetes or even people with diabetes. And this is one of the push backs I always get is, well if I have diabetes, I still have to avoid carbs, right? No, you do not. In fact, there is so much published literature showing that higher intakes of carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates, including starting the day with oatmeal, lower blood sugar. This is not, there's no question in the nutrition community when we're talking about evidence based recommendations.
Katie Fogarty 20:38
First of all, I'm so thrilled Jenn. I'm a huge oatmeal fan. I actually follow Instagram accounts about oatmeal.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 20:47
For a while, in my bio, I actually had a little emoji of a bowl of oatmeal, and I labeled myself the defender of oatmeal.
Katie Fogarty 20:55
That's hysterical. You are my people.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 21:01
And, but you know, it's really amazing because one of the biggest problems that we have with nutrition information on the internet, well, all information but of course I'm going to apply it to nutrition, is that people translate personal anecdotes into data. So they take their story, their friend's story, their mother's story, their cousin's story, their boss's story, and they say, Hey, look, it worked for us, therefore, we're going to tell everyone else to do it. And that's a really, really dangerous thing when it comes to anything health related. But when it comes to nutrition, it muddies already very murky water, because everybody has an opinion about nutrition. And that's fine, as long as your opinion only applies to yourself. Unless you're talking to a dietician, or another qualified nutrition professional who can understand that, you know, food is something that we need to have a relationship with. Because it's something that we need for the rest of our lives, you know. Really kind of counseling someone on what to eat, what not to eat, how to eat, when to eat, requires a whole lot more than a meal plan.
Katie Fogarty 22:09
So this is a great time to ask you this question. So it's, you know, you've outlined a couple of sort of broad strokes, you know, that applied to anyone, right. That, you know, there are certain foods that are good for bone health, that fiber is important for, you know, body functions, that there's sort of myths around carbs, you know, the importance of protein. And I'm assuming that these are universal truths that apply to everybody. But there are there are custom things that happen, you know, to an individual person, right. You know, when you said osteoporosis, and you describe, you know, I'm like, fair, and, you know, small boned and, you know, I'm going to admit, I was an ex smoker, you know, this is something that's on my radar as being a concern. When do you recommend that an individual work with a nutritionist to get a custom plan for them? Because every body's different.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 23:01
Yeah, you know, and it's really interesting, because if you talk to most dieticians, we will tell, we'll try and talk you out of a plan. And the reason for that is that plans that are set up as rules, that are set up as do's and don'ts, eat this not that, don't work. They don't work for us, they don't work for the people that we work with. Because it's very difficult to anticipate all of the needs in the moment when you're making decisions about food, especially if you have kids. I mean, I have teenagers and I still, you know, I feel like it's a win if my meal plan, you know, gets a 50% execution rate because something always happens and something always comes up. If you have been told by a medical professional, that you have a diagnosis, whether it's high cholesterol, whether it's diabetes, whether it's breast cancer, whether it's anything else, that is when I recommend consulting with a professional. Because the problem is that even most medical professionals aren't nutrition professionals. And you know, I work and know and are friends with many, many doctors from all different disciplines. And many of them give really bad nutrition advice. And I call them out on it. And so you know, if you have been given a diagnosis and you're looking to make changes to what you eat as part of supporting your health, directly or indirectly, don't look for that on Instagram. Don't look for that on Instagram, don't ask Dr. Google. Ask for a referral to a registered dietician or someone else who is a nutrition professional that you trust.
Katie Fogarty 24:40
Yeah, that's such great advice because I've had a number of friends who have gone through different bouts of cancer. When you're undergoing treatment, and it's very hard to eat because you're sick because of you know, perhaps you're, you know, the treatment is making you ill, it's hard to get the nutrients and you probably need to eat differently, you need to be working with somebody. I think of actually one of my own children who has food allergies, you know, when you, she's allergic to a lot of different kinds of food, and it just makes it hard to, to sometimes get all the nutrients that you need. So you know, there are times in your life when you do need to be working with somebody who can, who can advise you on how to, you know, optimize your macronutrient intake, so that you, you know, that you are healthy given what's going on in your life. But you know let's -
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 25:26
And here's an example -
Katie Fogarty 25:27
Yep, tell me.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 25:28
I can just give one more example.
Katie Fogarty 25:29
Do it, yes!
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 25:29
Because it's, I think it's gonna be really relevant for your listeners. Many women find themselves in a position in midlife where maybe they have an annual checkup, they get their bloodwork done, and they're told that you know, their, their blood sugar is borderline. And that sends them into, you know, a bit of a panic, as any change in our health does. And they often are told or read or believe that cutting out carbs is good. And so when, by the time that I often see people in this situation, they've often been doing kind of low carb for the better part of a year, trying to do low carb, maybe doing keto. And it's, you know, not working. And they're, they're feeling really frustrated. And this has happened twice in just the last week. And, you know, this is what, on a Thursday? So this happened twice in the last week and it happens pretty much every single week, that by introducing more carbohydrates, because we're increasing the level of fiber, their blood sugar decreases more in even just a 12 week period than it has for the entire year before that.
Katie Fogarty 25:31
Wow.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 25:33
So there's also harm from getting bad advice. So I just wanted to make sure that that was highlighted too.
So talk to me a little bit of a blood sugar while we're on this topic, you know, if it's elevated, why is that causing concern? You know, educate me because I'm not -
Yeah, so I mean, when your blood sugar gets too high, that's what we call, you know, diabetes. So type two diabetes is when you can still make the insulin, but the insulin doesn't work as well to open the door to your cells. So it's kind of like a lock and a key. And so the sugar kind of builds up in your blood. And it's, that's a bit of a problem, because sugar is a bit of a big molecule. And you know, those, those blood vessels that the sugar is traveling in are pretty small. And as it tries to get into smaller areas, especially our eyes and our kidneys, it can cause long term damage, which is why blindness and kidney disease is a risk factor. But you know, we do tend to see it associated with, you know, more illness. So when people have chronically high blood sugar, they don't feel well, and it can have an impact on their health. So there's also the stage before diabetes, which is sometimes called pre diabetes, or insulin resistance. And this is often where people kind of have that first conversation about blood sugar, and maybe they've been watching for it because they have a family history, maybe it's completely new to them. But because this idea of carbohydrates has been so ingrained into our conversations about nutrition and diabetes, people fear them, and they all of a sudden become terrified of, you know, eating. It's like, Oh, I can't eat that, you know? And that's, that's a really difficult mindset to maintain for 30, 40, 50 years.
Katie Fogarty 26:49
Absolutely.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 26:49
So, yeah.
Katie Fogarty 26:49
So what do you say to somebody who's sort of struggling with that, because, you know, in midlife, you know, our bodies change. And by the way, our bodies change our whole lives, you know, from the very -
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 27:56
They do.
Katie Fogarty 28:04
- the very moment we're born, there's nothing but change. But you know, there does come a time, you know, where maybe it feels more profound or pronounced because menopause sort of rolls into town, you lose estrogen, you know, the change happens at a greater velocity. And I think it impacts like all of your systems in a way that feels very dislocating, like, we haven't had such a big change. You know, the last time we had such a big change was perhaps when we were pregnant if we, if we are mothers, or when we first got our periods, so it's all of a sudden happening again, it can feel very dislocating. So what would be your coaching, you know, sort of beyond - What is the, sort of the mental and mindset support that you offer to clients who are sort of suffering, and are unhappy about their midlife body changes?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 29:11
Yeah, and this is, this is definitely my passion of really just trying to help women see that their body isn't the problem. It's their thoughts and feelings about their body. Now, those thoughts and feelings can be influenced by some really real things. So that, you know, they might be experiencing stigma or shame, or they may have difficulty moving easily and comfortably about their world. But most of the time, women only think about food and movement for the purposes of changing their body. And so you get to midlife and all the things that used to work aren't working anymore. It can feel terrifying. And that's where I found myself at 37 or 38. It's where so many people kind of landed in my virtual office saying, I just don't understand all these things that used to work aren't working anymore, and we kind of feel broken. And that's not a comfortable place to be. So what I tell people is, you know, you don't have to give up on the idea of weight loss. But I would like you to just consider that if your relationship with food and your body has only ever been about trying to change what your body looks like, is that the most sustainable way to find confidence within yourself? It probably isn't. Because like you said, our bodies going to change for our entire life. How can we learn to be at peace with change and also working towards improving our health and our nutrition and trying to be you know, active and energetic and well, but without making the scale or a clothing size the marker of success or failure?
Katie Fogarty 30:49
Yeah, absolutely. And you have a coaching program, it basically says like, We're a no scale coaching program. Like, that's not, that's not the goal. Do you, do you think that there is a rise in eating disorders in midlife? Or do you work with patients with eating disorders? Or is that like sort of a separate, you know, they need to go elsewhere?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 31:10
Absolutely. And we actually have some data from this year that the diagnoses of eating disorders in women over 40 is rising faster than any other demographic.
Katie Fogarty 31:10
Wow.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 31:12
So it's a big issue.
Katie Fogarty 31:14
Do you think COVID has something to do with that Jenn? Because I feel like COVID was such a, like, you know, two, two and a half years of confusion and fear. And, you know, you wanted to optimize your health.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 31:36
I don't know, I mean -
Katie Fogarty 31:36
I was, I was drilling, I was like chugging vitamin D, because, you know, pre, you know, honestly, before, before the, you know, the vaccine was available and, you know, I know they were treating patients with COVID with large doses of vitamin D in the hospital intravenously. And I was like, oh, that's like, the only thing you could do. I mean, there was a lot of fear around wellness in general. I had three kids, I wanted to remain alive to care for them, you know, we all went through this very psychologically traumatic global event, you know, could that, do you see any role in that and, and people's anxiety around how they optimize their health, through food?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 32:13
You know, I think that, I think we can, we'll only be able to know that in like five or 10 years when they've, you know, gone back and looked at, you know, data from that. But we do know that a couple of things happen in midlife. So there is a rise in body dissatisfaction that we think is happening because our brain is going through these hormone changes, not unlike it did in puberty, which is why we sometimes call perimenopause, reverse puberty. So if you remember all those uncomfortable moments when you were 12 and 13, your brain is kind of going through something similar. So we do have this brain thing that's happening. And we do also have a redistribution of assets, as I call it, thanks to -
Katie Fogarty 32:54
I love that, I may be stealing that.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 32:57
Yeah, so thanks to the changes in estrogen in particular, you know, we go from that pear shape to an apple shape. So even if the scale isn't changing all that much, what you see in the mirror and how your favorite jeans fit surely is. And so we have all these things happening at the same time. And then we also have the problem of social media, which we know contributes to body dissatisfaction and negative body image and changes to self esteem in all age groups. But you know, you do have a lot, a lot of us obviously hang out on Instagram and the like. And we're only seeing, you know, the best parts of people's lives, which is often completely unrealistic for our own. And so it invites that judgment and comparison, that then further perpetuates this body dissatisfaction. COVID did do something interesting for people that I think it gave us all a chance to press pause, which, as a mother of three kids as well, you know, we didn't often get that. So I think some people were actually able to use the time to find things that made them feel good and have continued with some of those, which is great. But I would say that, you know, it has placed greater emphasis on this individual responsibility for health that I don't actually always see as a positive thing.
Katie Fogarty 34:13
Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 34:14
You know, this idea that we need to be trying to prevent and treat every possible thing that you know, if we eat well enough and move enough and meditate enough and do all the right things that we can live to be 100 and everything is going to be fine. That places an unrealistic expectation on someone's relationship with food. I joke that we put way too much pressure on vegetables, and we need to lower the bar when it comes to food. And, you know, I think that, I think that that's probably my best advice to people when they say, you know, what should I eat? I say lower the bar. Right?
Katie Fogarty 34:47
Exactly.
Because you'll be much happier.
I love that. Poor broccoli, all the pressure on broccoli and spinach. You know, I also think that in the Western world, there's this relentless optimization that occurs, you know.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 34:49
Yeah.
Katie Fogarty 34:59
Where people feel like they need to optimize their sleep and they've got sleep trackers, and how many steps am I taking, and I'm measuring everything. It's not just food. I mean, there is this, you know, the bookshelves in bookstores are groaning with self help books, you know, there's this sense that you can, that you can optimize yourself and live forever. But I want to just focus on something that you, that you said that really registered with me, which is the importance of cleaning up your social media feeds. You are not the first guest to share that with me and I think it's just worth, you know, reminding our listeners, it's really, I think it's truly important to be following feeds that make you feel seen and supported in midlife. And that can look like a lot of different things. And, you know, I, I follow age positive accounts that, you know, don't you know, peddle me anti aging goods. You know, I practice this even in my, you know, my, my bathroom. You know, the stuff that's in my medicine cabinet is not shrieking, like anti aging, or, you know, restore youth, or that kind of thing. I mean, we want to take care of our bodies. As I said, I have three kids, I want to, I want to be around for the weddings and the grandchildren. So I am taking care of myself, and I'm taking care of my skin. But we really need to buy products that don't peddle us anti aging nonsense. We need to, you know, follow social media accounts that make us feel seen and supported. And that the end of the day, don't make us feel, you know, bad about the very natural process of aging. So thank you for coming to my TED Talk, Jenn. I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna get off my soapbox. But um, I love that you shared that. And I think it's just a great reminder for all of us to pay more attention about all of our inputs, not just food. We are near the end of our show, I could talk to you forever. I would encourage everyone to go follow Jenn on Instagram, because you'll get more of these doses of just sort of common sense supportive advice. We're moving into our speed round.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 36:58
Okay.
Katie Fogarty 36:58
And this is just one to two word answers. And I know this is going to be fun. We didn't even get a chance to talk about your podcast, so I would also encourage listeners to go listen to it. It's called The Midlife Feast. But my first question for you is, launching your podcast the midlife feast was:
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 37:17
Amazing.
Katie Fogarty 37:17
Amazing. I agree. Podcasting is so much fun, jump into the podcasting pool. Okay, my go to snack for energy:
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 37:26
Cheese and crackers.
Katie Fogarty 37:28
This anti inflammatory food is something that I always put in my grocery cart:
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 37:33
Um, can I say pass? Only because I, you know, there isn't one thing. And but okay, let's just say olive oil. I'll just answer olive oil.
Katie Fogarty 37:41
Okay, you know what, but I think pass is good, too. I mean, you shared at the beginning that no foods are good or bad and that we don't want to assign moral weight to them. So I think a pass is a totally appropriate answer. What's a favorite food that nourishes you?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 37:59
One answer, hmm.
Katie Fogarty 38:01
It's tricky. You could go for a category.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 38:05
I'm a foodie. So I feel like I have all of these different answers for this. But I'm gonna say cheese. Because I'm living in the Netherlands. And it is the best cheese in the world and it always makes me happy.
Katie Fogarty 38:18
Cheese always makes me happy too. I'm there for that. Okay, what's a favorite sort of self care practice?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 38:24
Going to bed early on a Friday night.
Katie Fogarty 38:27
Oh my gosh, all right. I'm impressed. You're more of an adult than I am. I still haven't managed to work that out yet.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 38:34
I started doing that when my kids, so my kids are teenagers and I realized that on Friday night they stay up later than I do. And so I was going to bed so late and then waking up exhausted. So I was like, you know what? I go to bed at like seven o'clock, I watch a show in bed, and I try and be asleep by 10. And I start Saturday feeling amazing and it's my favorite self care thing in the world.
Katie Fogarty 38:54
That sounds wonderfully indulgent. All right, I'm gonna maybe give that a try one of these weekends. Okay, what's a stress buster that you rely on?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 39:04
Movement. Joyful movement.
Katie Fogarty 39:05
Joyful movement, yes. Okay, on weekends you will find me, and we've already covered Friday night bed, but what else are you doing?
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 39:12
Reading.
Katie Fogarty 39:12
Nice. Finally, your one word answer to complete the sentence, as I age I feel:
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 39:19
Excited.
Katie Fogarty 39:20
Nice. Jenn, thank you so much. This was such a treat. I always love connecting with other podcasters, I love getting to have conversations with people that I follow on Instagram and sort of moving it off the little Instagram square into a real conversation. So this was an absolute treat. But before we say goodbye, I would love for you to share with our listeners how they can find you, learn more about your coaching and your podcasts, all of the good stuff.
Dr. Jenn Salib Huber 39:44
So the best place for people to hang out with me is on Instagram, @menopause.nutritionist, and my favorite place to hang out these days is in my membership community by the same name, The Midlife Feast. And this is where I help, you know, women to kind of nourish these healthy relationships with food but also connect with others who, you know, are kind of going through the same thing. So it's a, it's a fun place for us to hang out.
Katie Fogarty 40:06
Phenomenal. I'll put all of that into the show notes. Thank you Jenn. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Thank you for listening in and being a friend of the show. If you are an ACA fan, if the show add some zip to your workout, your car commute, your daily walk, if the show makes you happier, smarter, more inspired, or simply makes you feel like you're hanging out with some fun friends, please think about writing an Apple Podcast review. It's super easy to do. Just open the podcast app, find the show, and scroll to the end. Special thanks to Michael Mancini composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then, age boldly beauties.