Light On the Other Side of Midlife Divorce with Dr. Elizabeth Cohen
Sponsored by Elektra Health
Show Snapshot:
What if divorce is an opportunity to thrive rather than a failure Psychologist Dr. Elizabeth Cohen, author of Light on the Other Side of Divorce: Discovering the New You, shares ideas for flourishing after a divorce.
We cover letting go of grief and anger, the power of incremental change, great sex after a divorce, and why midlife divorce has its own special challenges and opportunities.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. How to reframe divorce as an opportunity, not a failure.
2. Why change jobs, careers, friends and no one blinks. Why should we stay in the same relationship if it’s no longer working?
3. Protect your mental well-being in the early days of a divorce with this one tip.
4. How to heal grief, address the righteous anger, and let go of resentment.
5. The power of micro-movements to effect change.
6. How anger is both a “neurobiological safety response” and a “lump of hot coal.”
7. On feeling unloved, overwhelmed and stuck.
8. How to jump back in the dating pool, and why might want a “dating” mentor.
9. The challenges (and benefits) of divorce at midlife.
Quotable:
We really have a misconception about change and evolution in the world. People don’t expect you to stay at the same job for the rest of your life. Why should you be expected to stay the same and be fulfilled all the time in the same relationship?
Acknowledge that there’s grief. Even if you’re the one who wanted the divorce, there was a time in which you wanted to be with this person and you had an idea of the future that is not happening anymore.
More Resources:
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Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (00:05):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. When you hear the word “divorce,” what comes to mind? A failure? A dissolution? Lawyers? Courts? So much of the language around divorce is steeped in negative words and legal jargon. My guest today is a woman who upends the notion that divorce is something to be feared and reframes divorce as an opportunity to grow.
Dr. Elizabeth Cohen is a clinical psychologist and an expert in supporting women as they navigate life’s challenges. Known as the Divorce Doctor, she’s the author of, Light on the Other Side of Divorce: Discovering the New You. And she joins me today to share ideas to help you not just survive, but thrive during a divorce. If your own marriage is ending, if you’re looking for tools to support a friend or family member navigating a divorce, or if you simply want to be smarter about this incredibly common life transition, stick around, this show is for you. Welcome, Dr. Cohen.
Dr. Elizabeth Cohen (01:04):
Thank you so much for having me, I’m thrilled to be here and be able to share with your audience.
Katie (01:08):
I know my audience is going to absolutely get so much value out of this show. We did an episode on divorce last year, I featured Kate Anthony who is the creator of The Divorce Survival Guide podcast and it was the number one most downloaded show in all of 2021, so this is a hot topic with my audience.
Dr. Cohen (01:31):
Oh that’s great. I love Kate.
Katie (01:33):
Yeah, she’s phenomenal. She shared a lot of wonderful resources and we talked a lot about not just how to navigate divorce but maybe how to prevent it. I wanna start by asking you something that caught my eye when I was on your website. You say that divorce is not a failure, it’s a chance to shift and it’s an opportunity. I would love for you to do a little stage setting and tell us more about that approach.
Dr. Cohen (01:58):
Yeah, thanks. You know, unfortunately, even though 50% of first marriages end in divorce, about 62% of second and 73% of third marriages end in divorce, we still have a huge stigma in this world, and specifically in this country, around divorce. People still come into my office, as a clinical psychologist, and say, “My daughter started dating somebody, they’re really great, but they’re from a broken home.” We’re still using these kinds of words, we still have this stigma that somehow a marriage ending is a failure and actually, deciding that something isn’t working for you, or accepting that someone else is not happy in the relationship and releasing that person, is one of the bravest, mature, and honest things you can do. Trying to put a square peg in a round hole doesn’t work.
And I think we really have a misconception about change and evolution in the world. People don’t expect you to stay at the same job, certainly not anymore, for the rest of your life. Why should you be expected to stay the same and be fulfilled all the time in the same relationship? And I really do think that it comes from the origin of the pushback of divorce comes from the patriarchal idea that women shouldn’t leave men in a heteronormative environment and that we’re still pushing against that. That it’s okay to be single, it’s okay to be married again, it’s okay—and more importantly, brave—to admit when something isn’t working.
Katie (03:31):
Absolutely. I love your use of the word brave because I agree. I think any kind of transition is something that requires us to dig deep within ourselves and the notion that it’s society around us that’s giving us these messages that we need to stay stuck is something that I really, I can relate to. And so, for people who are considering getting themselves unstuck, you know, looking at their relationship honestly and saying, “It’s no longer working,” and they want to be exploring divorce, this is a process that can stretch on for months or years. Let’s start at the beginning, if somebody is considering this, what are a few steps that you would advise to a client or a woman in order to get going and also to protect her mental well-being at the beginning of a divorce?
Dr. Cohen (04:20):
Yeah, I mean I think one of the most important pieces of information is, really think about who you’re talking to and sharing your tender heart and feelings with. You mentioned Kate Anthony, my work, there’s a lot of us in the positive divorce world that you can start following and listening to our podcasts.
Really think about, in my book I talk about different categories of friends. Who are the friends who you know believe in you no matter what? They’re just your cheerleaders, they just think whatever you do is amazing. Talk to them first. And the people who either have their own issues in their marriage or maybe their parents are divorced and have ambivalent feelings about divorce, you know who those people are, do me a favor, stay away from talking with them, for now. I’ve found in my practice and I’ve found in my own personal life, I had this desire to, kind of, change people’s feelings, so I would go to the people who I call naysayers who you know aren’t gonna support you, and try to convince them, and that just left me feeling terrible, especially about something that I was just deciding to do myself. So, I really would recommend that people would get support that is really unconditional, that just believes in you and gives you the support to make the best decision for you.
Katie (05:30):
Unconditional support is something that I think we need in every aspect of our life, but particularly this one. What about women who have maybe gone through a divorce who are listening right now and thinking, I should have had this advice 5, 10 years ago, and they are still sort of navigating some of the scars. The reason why I’m asking you this question is I have people in my own life, they’re fully past the divorce phase, it’s been 5, 10 years, yet they’re still struggling with some of the scars because healing is an ongoing process. What would you say to a woman who has not yet achieved peace with this?
Dr. Cohen (06:09):
Yeah, first of all, I think I would say you’re not alone. There’s a lot of people who have moved through the paperwork and the kind of administrative piece of the hectic beginning of divorce and have the signed papers but never really approached the impact it’s had on your heart, mind, body and soul. And that’s one of the things I try to talk about in my book ,really how to heal the grief, how to address the righteous anger, how to let go of resentment, and how to believe that what happened was really what was best for you. And how to really release that relationship in a way that it had… I talk in my book about saying to yourself, “My relationship has had it’s perfect ending. It did everything it could have done for me, and now it’s time to end.” So, there’s a lot of work on releasing, on letting go, on taking care of yourself.
So, I would recommend, for someone who is in this circumstance, thinking, “Oh I should have done this before, I’m still holding onto so much pain,” make a list of your resentments, just get out a piece of paper and write them down. Write out all the resentments you have. And then on another piece of paper, write the things you actually have control over. Because if you can change any of those resentments, I’m here to help you. But if we focus on what’s going on for us and what we can control, that’s how we start shifting and that’s what happened for me is that I had a situation where I could tell these war stories about my ex and I realized that that left me feeling empty, depressed, and feeling more alone. And so I realized, gently and compassionately to think about, “Okay, how did I end up here? And how do I make sure I don’t end up here again? Because I’m the only one I can impact and I can change.” So, take a little gentle look at yourself and think about what’s one small thing I can do for myself today? Is it, drink more water? Is it, meditate for 4 minutes? Is it, go for a walk? Really start small. As a cognitive-behavioral therapist, I really believe change happens with small, incremental movements, not huge sweeping ones.
Katie (08:17):
I adore that notion. We are gonna be heading into a quick break but when we come back, I want to hear more about how micro-movements can help us navigate difficult transitions, we’ll be back after this break.
[Ad break]
Katie (09:53):
Okay, Dr. Cohen, we’re back. We headed into the break, you were talking about your belief in the power of micro-movements and small steps to effect big change. You also shared that grief is something people struggle with in divorce. What would be some small steps or some big ideas for tackling grief when a relationship ends?
Dr. Cohen (10:14):
Great question. I mean, I think the first part is just to acknowledge that there’s grief. Even if you’re the one who wanted the divorce, there was a time in which you wanted to be with this person and you had an idea of the future that is not happening anymore. And I like to say that grief, for me, in my experience, has just been unravelling and unfolding as the years go on. I’ve been divorced for 13 years and about two years ago I was it with a huge grief bomb when I was with my ex-husband, our two children and their step brother swimming in a pool. And while I’m incredible happily remarried and grateful not to be with my ex-husband, I had this deep moment of grief that, this is the life I had wanted at one point. I had wanted us all together, swimming in a pool, sharing a life. And I let myself cry, I went to my husband, who was barbecuing up at the house, and just shared how sad I was. Again, not that I wanted to be with this person, but that there was a story and a narrative that I had to give up and release.
I actually recommend in my book for people to write it out on a piece of tissue paper and really say what you had dreamed on that wedding night, or that wedding day and write is on tissue paper so that you can roll it up and then burn it and let it fly away and see that you’re releasing this fantasy that no longer exists. So, that’s one way to kind of attach some significance and connection and love to your grief.
Katie (11:48):
That’s such a powerful visual. To really see yourself, just sort of setting it free and releasing it. How do you do that with anger? You mention righteous anger and that just burned it’s way into my brain. [laughs] Because I feel like people who have been listening to this show for a while have heard me talk about things like… I joke about toxic rage with menopause and, sort of, volcanic mood swings, and I feel as I’ve gotten older, maybe it’s the tumultuous time we’re living in, but I have been experiencing bouts of anger that I feel are so… I try to be present in them but they don’t feel great and are a little destructive. So, if somebody is still consumed with anger around their divorce and recognizes that that is like holding a hot lump of coal in their own hand, and they want to release it, what do you recommend?
Dr. Cohen (12:39):
Yeah, such an important point. You know, I refer to anger in my book as righteous anger because I really want to validate—especially people who’ve gone through divorce—that it is very likely that whatever you are angry about, you have a right to be angry about. You’re not just holding onto resentment, some bad stuff probably happened to you. So, I want to really acknowledge and validate that experience. As you beautifully said, the problem with anger is that if we hold onto it too long, it’s like we’re holding hot coal and no one else is getting hurt.
Anger is actually part of or neurobiological safety system called the fight, flight, or freeze response. And we actually have to move this fight response through our bodies. What happens is, it can really get stuck. Especially because we’re not encouraged, especially as women, to express our anger. So, we can often get stuck in a spiral of pushing it down and it comes out sideways. So, I always recommend to people to do some anger work, every day, every few days. I always suggest putting on music. I have a song, it’s by Rage Against the Machine that I’ll put on, often when I’m in the shower, and just let my body move to the music. And usually, I don’t know what’s gonna happen, often there’s punching in the air, kicking, whatever it might be. This is my body’s response to releasing the fight or flight response.
So, it’s really important to acknowledge it. It’s also important to know that feelings are not facts. Feelings last in our nervous system if we really allow them, for 30 seconds. Anger is the same as joy and excitement and happiness. We don’t have to be so afraid of it, we have to allow it to move through us.
Katie (14:31):
Yes, to be present in the moment that you’re experiencing. I think that’s something that I’ve got better at doing myself as I’ve gotten older. I love this notion of, kind of, shaking your body out, to have this physically move through you. I’ve had other guests come on the show to talk about the importance of movement in processing emotions. I have worked with different speech coaches in my life, because I do a lot of public presenting, and they talk about the importance of shaking your body before you even go on stage because it helps you release stress. It’s such a simple, powerful tool that I think a lot of us don’t use as much as we can. So, thank you for letting us know that the physical movement is something that can help with the emotional experience of anger.
I want to ask you a question, you share on your website that divorce can make people feel unloveable; that you experience a sense of rejection, or that the love that you had thought that you had, is gone and we feel sort of deeply unloveable. And I think whether or not you’re divorced or not, people go through the experience of feeling unloveable at different points. How do you coach women in your practice to recognize that self-love is key in terms of mental wellness? And what are some steps we can take to fuel our inner self-love, no matter our relationship status?
Dr. Cohen (16:00):
Yeah, I mean, one phrase I, of course, adore as a therapist is, “If you’re hysterical, it’s historical.” So, to really think about if you’re feeling unloved, it might be this situation that is triggering that for you, that is bringing that up for you. But it’s likely that there was a moment in time, probably earlier in your life, when you really felt like your needs weren’t being met. And so, to really be compassionate to yourself, if you want to do some work with a coach or with a therapist on really that part of you that still feels so undeserving of love, that came from the past. I mention not having your needs met, which I think is the key to connecting back to self-love.
And many of us who have gone through a divorce, spent many years even before the divorce, sublimating our needs and not accessing them, and asking for them to be met. So, it’s really important to spend some time just trying to figure out what your needs are. And that can be, if you’re recently divorced; what color do I want to paint my bedroom? Do I want to get a new duvet cover? Do I want socks that are itchy or do I like socks that are soft? What kind of food do I want to order when my kids are with their co-parents? Really asking yourself, again, going back to small steps, really small questions about what your needs are. That’s how you ultimately build up self-love, because you get to know what you want and then how to give it to yourself.
Katie (17:35):
And if someone’s feeling overwhelmed with all those questions… Because sometimes I think that decision-making is one of life’s biggest stressors. If you’re all of a sudden confronted with decisions that you used to have a partner in making, how would you coach somebody to manage that overwhelm? Or, should they reframe it as more of a sense of freedom to be the one that’s choosing?
Dr. Cohen (18:00):
Yeah, that’s a really nice reframe which is, look at all these choices I have. I mean as someone who specializes in anxiety disorders, choice is something that people really struggle with that I work with in my private practice. One thing I always say, which seems to bring a lot of relief to people, is there’s really no bad choice. So, you think, “I’ll try Mexican,” and it turns out, you don’t like that. I just had that the other night, “Oh I’ll try— I didn’t like it. Okay, that’s just more information.” And then every decision will have a good part to it and a hard part to it.
I think a lot of times we put too much pressure on there being one right answer. I mean I think as you age you learn, there are so many ways to get to where you need to be, there’s so many paths. So, I think relieving the pressure and thinking of this more, I talk to my divorce clients like a curiosity; can this be an experiment? Can we be curious? Can we get a sample of paint and see how it feels? Can we get these color flowers and see how it feels? And if we don’t like it, fine. But not to become too attached to the outcome that there’s a right or a wrong decision. Does that make sense?
Katie (19:05):
Yeah, absolutely. And I feel that that’s something that people probably get better at as they move through their divorce, or that they get better at as they age. Because I feel like getting to the stage of life gives you the perspective that there is no one right way, that there are a lot of different paths to happiness and we begin to see that. Do you see that in your practice? I’m assuming that you treat and work with people across ages. But in terms of, you know, what role, if any does aging play in the divorce process and people’s success in navigating it in a vibrant way?
Dr. Cohen (19:43):
Yeah, such a good question. I think it’s really complicated because on the one hand, as people age, they have so much more life experience. And one of the keys of cognitive behavioral therapy is really looking at what has happened before and how you’ve managed to handle it. So, having all this life experience actually really helps us feel more capable. Sometimes when I’m working with younger clients I say, “This is gonna sound like an older person saying this to you but, trust me, there are so many ways to skin a cat.” It’s so valuable having had all this life experience.
I think what’s hard for people going through a divorce at this time is that they’ve had a long time in that relationship. So, in a lot of ways, they feel like they have a lot of experience in life, but not a lot of experience out of that relationship. So, you can really feel like a beginner and you can feel… Many people haven’t dated in years. So, you can feel so new, but also so experienced. And I think sometimes people can really fall into the, “So then, I’m totally inexperienced…” and one of my jobs is to help them see their experience. “Yes, you haven’t dated in a while, but you’ve started new jobs and have met new coworkers. You’ve joined new community organizations.” So, really trying to help them see that while they’re beginning and new piece and new part of their life, they also have a lot of experience. I think it’s a tough time to get divorced and you really need guidance to feel like what you just did all those years wasn’t for naught and you still have a lot of experience you can use to have an amazing next chapter.
Katie (21:20):
Absolutely. And you’ve built up all of this emotional wisdom, even though you may feel very bruised after divorce. You’re bringing your life experience and your own sense of self to the equation. But if somebody is thinking, “Well, that’s all well and good. Yes, I’m "midlife confident" but I’m not confident about re-entering the dating pool. It looks so different than it used to when I first got into it.” What would be some coaching? What are some tactical steps to really get people back into motion?
Dr. Cohen (21:55):
Well, first, I think it’s really important—and you can’t realize this until you go on a date later in life,—but so many things are different. Especially for women, if you were someone who wanted to have children or was hoping to get married. There was this invisible pressure that you might have even known was there. Like, when you take out needing to commit to someone for the rest of your life, wanting to have children, wanting to buy a house with the person, and you can just if you can embrace just meeting someone to have fun with, a partner to enjoy activities with, to get to know another person’s perspective. If you can bring a lightness to it, it’s actually deeply enjoyable. And what you’ve had in your last relationship was an example of what didn’t work.
So, I often have people write down kind of, what their dreams are of what it might be like to be able to sit with somebody and share what’s going on with them and how that person would respond. Not, what their job is, what their hair color is, how tall they are. Not those things, because that doesn’t really tell you anything about what you’re gonna feel like in the relationship, past, you know, the first few dates.
So, what do you want to feel with this person? What are the experiences you want to have? And usually, I have to say, that gets people really excited because it gets them out of the— "I need to find a match” or, “I need to figure out the next person.” Again, going back to the needs, "What do I want to feel? What do I want to experience when I’m with a new person?” And I think getting support, getting support from other women who’ve gone through this, from coaches, if it’s a new area for you, get as much support as you can. You don’t have to go it alone.
Katie (23:36):
The question of, "What do I want?” when you’re asking yourself about a relationship, is a fantastic question that you could be applying to any part of midlife, honestly. What do I want out of my career? What do I want out of my purpose? What do I want out of my future? And I love that you are guiding women, and men, of course, to be asking themselves this question as they look at exploring new relationships. Because I had a fantastic guest come on a few weeks ago, Tamsen Fadal, she’s a TV journalist and she wrote a book called The New Single, and she shared that when she got herself back in the dating pool, she thought she wanted something that was maybe similar to her past, then she realized she didn’t. So, a woman who maybe has been settled down and has been having a family might want a partner now who wants to travel…
Dr. Cohen (24:25):
Exactly.
Katie (24:25):
Not somebody with a desk job. Or, somebody who wants to be able to be involved with their grandkids or to… You know, whatever it is. What you desire for yourself might look different from what you had in your past. And so, that question of what do I want is something that’s so simple but I think there are times in our lives when we don’t ask ourselves that.
Dr. Cohen (24:47):
Oh, I think there’s a lot of times we don’t ask ourselves that. [Katie laughs] I mean, I think we’re not even taught that. There’s no class in school that tells you instead of, “I should be this, this”… It’s mostly should instead of, “What do I want?”
Katie (24:58):
Yes, no shoulds. There’s no more should-ing over ourselves, no should-ing over ourselves, we are asking ourselves what we want. I think that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to invite you on the show. Because when I, you know, went to Google and I looked for an expert on divorce, and I looked for an author to come on, I know you’ve written a book, Light On the Other Side of Divorce, you’re a podcaster as well. But one of the things that attracted me, was your language and your messaging, which was this sense of optimism, that divorce is an opportunity. You say on your website that divorce is illuminating. I would love to ask you if it’s not too personal, what did your own divorce teach you about yourself? Is there something that you only learned that was only possible because you went through the experience of navigating a divorce?
Dr. Cohen (25:46):
Yes. So, my divorce, I divorced someone who struggled with substance use disorder. And I didn’t realize until I got divorced just how much I put my self-worth on his failure. So, him screwing up, if you had asked me, and making mistakes, I would have been the martyr, was actually a way for me to feel good about myself. And I never would have known that I had the tendency to martyr, mother, manage as a way to feel loved. And luckily, I’ve been able to work on that and not do that anymore. So, if I hadn’t gotten divorced, I never would have had to look at that difficult part of myself.
Katie (26:26):
And sort of emerge with a better sense-of-self and presumably, you shared earlier that you’re remarried, you’ve been able to create a different new chapter for yourself.
Dr. Cohen (26:38):
I mean, completely different. And in fact, I had to really figure out where the rubber meets the road. There were things that my ex-husband did but I contributed to the relationship and I was going to be in a similar dynamic if I didn’t figure out what my role was in it. And so, I took it really seriously to turn the mirror on myself and look internally and figure out, again, lovingly and compassionately, what was going on for me in my relationships, what was impacting me from my childhood, what was being re-enacted for me, and how could I really be the best partner. And I’m still learning. The thing is, I wanted a partner, in my list of what I wanted, was a partner where we could learn together, that we would continue to want to learn and evolve so that our relationship could be stronger and more connected.
Katie (27:27):
I love that notion of learning together, that’s such a beautiful notion. It sounds like you’ve been able to do that yourself. Is it because of your training? So, if somebody’s listening who is thinking, “I wanna go through that process that she did, I want to emerge on the other side the way Dr. Cohen did.” Do you recommend your book? Obviously, it lays out a lot of this wonderful information. Do you recommend that somebody work with a therapist? If somebody wants the tools, how can they acquire them for their own life?
Dr. Cohen (27:56):
Yeah I mean, that’s why I wrote the book. So, when I got divorced, I Googled “divorce recovery, divorce healing,” and there was nothing. That was again, about 15, 14 years ago. And I realized at that moment that I felt that that was sending me the message that I wasn’t going to heal. And I just pieced together from my training, different evidence-supported treatments and did them, one foot in front of the other, one foot forward, two steps back. And that’s why I wrote the book. I didn’t want anyone to have to spend that much time and effort. And because of the privilege of my education, I was able to do that. So, I wanted people to have it in a comprehensive plan of how to heal.
Essentially my book is like going to therapy for 12 to 14 weeks. There are journal prompts, you can really invest in. I’m obviously a huge proponent of therapy, but I also understand the cost of it. Which is why I wrote the book, I wanted someone who… I remember I used to go to this story hour, I live in New York City when my kids were little. When I kicked my husband out, my kids were 2 years and 6 months old, they were really little. I had kinda schlepped to the library and if I could have seen, out of the corner of my eye, a book that said, Light on the Other Side of Divorce, I would have really felt hopeful. So, I really recommend people pick up the book and really just get started on following the tips of how to look inward. It’s hard, but people who are going through a divorce have done the hardest, bravest thing. I know they can do this too.
Katie (29:28):
Absolutely. Because no one gets to midlife, which is where my audience is, without navigating hard things. We’ve perhaps dealt with our own family’s pain, there’s been illness, there’s been death. And we have this resilience that we get in midlife. Resilience is a muscle. The more we use it, the better we get at it. And divorce, even though it’s painful, is something that, as you spell out, that presents the opportunity to enter that new chapter with a different dimension.
We are almost out of time, we’re gonna close with a speed round which we always do and I know you agreed to do that with me. But before we move into the speed round, I want to ask you about the… You share “Five Affirmations to Heal the Pain of Your Divorce” on your website, it’s downloadable. I’m gonna put it in the show notes and encourage everyone to go there. But if there’s one particular affirmation that speaks strongly to you that you want to leave our audience with, I would love to hear it.
Dr. Cohen (30:32):
Yeah, I think my favorite is, “My marriage came to its perfect completion, I’m ready to release it.”
Katie (30:41):
That is such a beautiful way of looking at it. Thank you for sharing that with us. I will make sure the other four get out into the show notes and people can head to Dr. Elizabeth Cohen’s website, I’ll have her share that at the end. Let’s do our speed round.
Dr. Cohen (30:56):
Great.
Katie (30:57):
Okay. Writing, Light on the Other Side of Divorce: Discovering the New You was _____.
Dr. Cohen (31:03):
Can I do more than one word?
Katie (31:04):
Yes.
Dr. Cohen (31:05):
Okay. [both laugh] It was empowering, and at times excruciating, and brought me to my knees.
Katie (31:16):
Sounds a lot like life, I love it. [Dr. Cohen laughs] The one thing every woman going through a divorce needs _____.
Dr. Cohen (31:24):
To know how incredibly brave they are.
Katie (31:28):
A surprising benefit to being divorced _____.
Dr. Cohen (31:31):
Mm, amazing sex.
Katie (31:33):
[laughs] I love it. [Dr. Cohen laughs] I’m just gonna throw this in. I had Laura Friedman Williams come on this show, she wrote the memoir Available: A Memoir of Sex and Dating After A Marriage Ends and she chronicles exactly that, that sounds like a fabulous benefit.
Beyond your own book and podcast, a book or podcast that you would direct listeners to who want to explore more divorce resources _____.
Dr. Cohen (32:03):
My dear friend Susan Guthrie’s Divorce and Beyond podcast.
Katie (32:09):
Fabulous.
Dr. Cohen (32:10):
It is amazing. And I always recommend, for those of you who’ve been in relationships like mine, Melody Beattie’s, Codependent No More, about releasing ourselves from codependency.
Katie (32:21):
Okay. A go-to resource for tactical divorce information _____.
Dr. Cohen (32:27):
Can you hold on a second? I have to get it, I have to get the name of it, hold on… Okay, I really like the book, The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce, by Sarah Armstrong.
Katie (32:41):
Okay, fantastic, going I the show notes as well. The best lifestyle hack for inner peace during a divorce _____.
Dr. Cohen (32:48):
Breathing, feeling your feet on the ground.
Katie (32:50):
My favorite self-care practices _____.
Dr. Cohen (32:53):
Yoga.
Katie (32:54):
And finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence. As I age, I feel _____.
Dr. Cohen (33:01):
Empowered.
Katie (33:02):
This is terrific. Thank you so much. [Dr. Cohen laughs] So many great tips, so many wonderful resources that will be found in the show notes. Before we say goodbye, how can our listeners find you, your work, your book, and more about your divorce coaching services?
Dr. Cohen (33:20):
Thanks for asking. You can find all of my work on my website, drelizabethcohen.com. You can purchase my book on Amazon or at Barnes & Noble or on Bookshop.org which is a conglomerate of independent books stores so if you can get it there that’s great. And all the information on how to coach with me and listen to my podcast and learn from me, there’s a lot of freebies as you mentioned, can all be found on my website.
Katie (33:50):
Thank you so much Dr. Cohen. This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when startup founder and food activist, Raina Kumra dishes on her plant-based pantry essentials company, Spicewell, which turns your pantry into a wellness medicine cabinet.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to rate and review A Certain Age over on Apple Podcasts last month. I see and appreciate you. If this is still on your to-do list, make today the day. Simply find A Certain Age on your podcast app, scroll down to the bottom, and tap on the stars to rate or leave a written review. Because both matter, reviews and ratings help other women find the show.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.