Love, Loss, and Laughs. A Sad-Funny Journey Through Grief
Show Snapshot:
Meet Leslie Gray Streeter – veteran journalist and author of Black Widow: A Sad-Funny Journey Through Grief for People Who Normally Avoid Books With Words Like 'Journey' in the Title.
Named a Glamour Magazine Top 20 Books to Read in 2020, Leslie's memoir chronicles her young husband's unexpected death, mixing heartbreak and laugh-out-loud funny, to create a joyful read for anyone who has lost someone they love.
We cover what people get right (and wrong) about grief, wading back into the dating pool at midlife, and why calling someone after 9 pm is a hard no.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. Why Leslie chose to write a funny book about the un-funny topic of death.
2. What people get right (and wrong) about the different stages of grief.
3. Grief cake, day-drinking and coffin shopping.
4. How the pandemic has us all mourning something.
5. Getting comfortable with allowing others to help.
6. Intergenerational living and the mother-daughter dynamic.
7. Aging and arriving – feeling more fully “yourself.”
8. Resources for grief and widowhood.
Quotable:
For some people, this is a journey, this a spiritual thing, with doves and flowers and all that stuff. And that is not my jam. I am more like, 'This sucks. I don’t know where I’m going." It’s not a hearts and flowers thing.
Fifty is like this clarity. I feel more myself. I feel this is who I was always becoming—she’s here now.
Word of Mouth. Leslie Recommends:
Soaring Spirits International sponsors Camp Widow and now it’s online. They’re amazing, they really help widowed people. Read anything by Nora McInerny, who is now a friend of mine, who wrote Hot Young Widows Club. She has a really great podcast, Terrible, Thanks For Asking.
More Resources:
The Hot Young Widows Club: Lessons on Survival from the Front Lines of Grief
Leslie’s Book:
Follow Leslie:
Leslie on The Today Show
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty (00:07):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I’m your host Katie Fogarty.
Super weird confession: I have imagined my husband Mike’s death a number of times. Not that I want him to die, I absolutely do not, but on some bizarre level, my brain feels like if I practice this nightmare, even in my own imagination, it might make it easier for me to deal with if it actually happens. My guest today is a woman who was thrust into this exact nightmare scenario, no warning, no practice and lived to make it through that moment and write a stellar, heart-breaking, hilarious memoir about young widowhood.
I’m joined today by Leslie Gray Streeter, author of Black Widow: A Sad-Funny Journey Through Grief for People Who Normally Avoid Books with Words Like “Journey” in the Title. Welcome, Leslie.
Leslie Gray Streeter (01:01):
Thank you so much for having me.
Katie (01:03):
I’m so excited to have you, I just finished your book this week and it feels a little odd, you know, to tell you how crazy I was about it. It was so moving and hilarious and pitch-perfect, but it’s rooted in such a devastating loss, so it feels weird to be so excited about it.
Leslie (01:21):
That’s the weird thing too when I first started pitching it and people were like, “So, you say it’s a funny book about death, what’s wrong with you?” [Katie laughs] And I know it’s a weird thing to even say which is why we made the subtitle so purposely weird and descriptive. It’s like, you wanna know what it is, this is what it is.
Katie (01:42):
It’s perfect because it is a sad funny journey through grief and I related so much to the idea of like, I don’t want to be on this journey and I don’t even like the ideas of a journey to begin with. But you know-
Leslie (01:53):
I know. I had some conversations with some people who were widowed and some people love that phrase and I always preface it by saying for some people, this is a journey, this a spiritual thing with doves and flowers and all that stuff, is really what helps them through, and that is not my jam. I am more like: this sucks, I don’t know where I’m going, it’s not a hearts a flowers thing.
I think that what I found when I first started researching the book and figuring okay, when you write a book proposal you have to say: what is this book, why do people need it, and isn’t there something like this already available? And I think that so many books about grief, for whatever reason, or any sort of struggle, meet you at the end. They start with: we started at great, but now we’re going back, but you’re gonna be fine. And I don’t know that we were gonna be fine. I had no way of knowing if that were true, and I wanted a book that wrote about the struggle and that wrote about the times when you are crying at the bathroom at your job, or people are just saying stupid things to you and you wanna hide. Lots of hiding. And I wanted to write about that part a bit so people understood if you don’t come out of this completely, 100% healed and you know, serene and whatever, you’re not doing it wrong. There’s no wrong for it.
Katie (03:24):
There definitely is no wrong. Everyone’s got a unique situation. But your book opens so vividly. You’re in coffin shopping mode, and you’re just like, right in the action with you and feeling your shock, and your just dislocation and how surreal it is, and how bizarrely funny it is to be coffin shopping. You’re really right in there.
Why did you want to infuse that humour into it? Why was that important? Because it helped you survive your experience? Because you talk about things that got your through, you talk about family, friends, you know, grief cake.
Leslie (04:09):
[04:09 Inaudible][1] All of those things. I think that’s how I process things. People who had read my writing before, this was my first book so most people had not. But people who had regionally in the Palm Beach area or other places read my work, understood that that’s sort of how I process things is through humour. So literally, that conversation having during coffin shopping is funny. I just went and wrote down my thoughts and I was like, boy you’re weird. [Katie laughs] That’s really how I was thinking. Don’t drip chips on the dead people, [Katie laughs] new widow lifestyle or all that stuff. Stuff that came up that where I truly do believe that that’s how I processed it. And sort of like the fluffy padding around my brain that my body erected so I wouldn’t freak out all at once. And I think a lot of it was padded, literally and figuratively, with humor.
Katie (05:13):
That makes so much sense. You talk about the different stages of grief you know, the shock, the surreal like, how did I get here coffin shopping? And then you go through day drinking, you call yourself a grown-ass woman but who’s crying for her mommy, these are the stages of grief that to me feel very, very real. That’s how grief has shown up in my life and I’ve experienced. Rather than this clinically you hear there’s denial, anger, bargaining, and acceptance, you know which makes it feels like you’re like a [05:46 Inaudible] patient going through an airport, [Leslie laughs] or a traveler, or something. It’s like, hey are we at acceptance yet? This walkway needs to move faster because I want to get to acceptance.
Leslie (05:56):
I know, I know. Like this [05:57 Inaudible][2] I’ve talked to people and say listen, it was never meant to be linear and it was never meant to be about death. It was meant to be about people accepting that they had a terminal illness. Which is where things like acceptance and bargaining, like you know, if I eat right will I not have cancer? If I do this if I’m a nice person, will you not kill me universe? That kind of thing, so it makes a lot more sense in that context.
And I think that it makes honestly a lot of sense in the context we’re in now with COVID, where I believe that all of us are mourning in a way, whether or not we’re mourning actual live people who died, we’re mourning our way of life, and ease we used to have and you know, leaving the house, and dating and kissing and touching people, and all that stuff.
Katie (06:41):
Wearing shoes. [laughs]
Leslie (06:43):
All those things, wearing shoes, where’s my bra? All of those things. And I think that we are dealing with grief in so many different ways. And so the, if I do this, will I not get COVID? If I act a certain way or if I’m nice or whatever so it makes a lot more sense in the context and the answer is, they’re never linear, the stages were never meant to be, okay, tick that one off, now I’m onto the next one. And now I get to the end and I get my cookie and I get my medal that I’m healed and I’m all happy. Because healing is very important, I believe that I have healed. But there are moments that put me right back in with it, you know?
Katie (07:29):
I’m sure that that floods back
Leslie (07:32):
Oh yeah
Katie (07:33):
You talk about in the book, about not wanting to be the widow where you were like a burden to people, or that you didn’t want to be the widow that people had to keep worrying about. Did you move past that stage? Because people want to support people who are going through these devastating losses. Did you ever get comfortable and say I’m ready to be supported and I know that what I’m going through is completely okay?
Leslie (08:02):
I did. It’s so interesting that this podcast is targeted toward women of our age because I think there’s a lot that we do as women that we feel like we don’t want to be a burden even when it’s totally okay. If there’s any other situation in which people should take care of you it’s when your partner dies.
Katie (08:24):
Totally.
Leslie (08:25):
As my sister used to say, if there’s any situation in which you don’t have to feel bad about leaning on people, it’s this. But as women, we’re taking care of people. We feel weird about making people feel weird. I got to the point honestly where now that I accepted it, I decided it was okay.
My sister had reminded me of something that happened when we got married. I was 38 when I got married. I had like 37 bridesmaids, like 10 really. Really 10 bridesmaids, well 9 ladies and a dude, my friend Jason [08:58 Inaudible][3] . He offered to wear a dress, he didn’t have to. My sister was like, do you remember the day before your wedding when we got our nails done Leslie, you handed me your cell phone and you said, “I’m done. Anybody who wants to talk to me can talk to you. This is my day now, I can’t do nothing else for nobody. If they need directions they can call the hotel. If they need anything else, if they call me, they’ll get you and you can tell them where they’re going and otherwise, I’m out.” I was like “Wow.” She’s said I was her favorite bride because you were like, “This is what I need, I’m in my situation now, I don’t have to worry about it no more.” And I was like, sow. And it really taught me, it’s okay to do that, it’s okay to say I need something.
Also, I think it wasn’t just that I didn’t want to be a burden. I felt like if you have to take care of me, it means that something really is wrong. Like, I can’t explain this away and the amount to which people want to take care of me it’s like, “Oh, this is really awful now isn’t it” I couldn’t like, rationalize it or explain it away. Also sometimes I wanted to be like, “How bad do I look?” [both laugh]
Katie (10:11):
That makes so much sense because you even see that as a parent sometimes when kids stub their toe and their knee, they try and jerk themselves together because they don’t want to be vulnerable. You see that even at little kid’s ages. And to have that level of support swooping in probably almost felt terrifying because you’re like, this is gonna be rough.
Leslie (10:35):
Yeah and particularly, people who had, you know my mother had been widowed, and one of my best friends, her husband who is like my brother-in-law who is a widower, his first wife passed away. And they were like if you need me. And I was like “Oh no, this means this is terrible!”
Katie (10:51):
I don’t want to be in your club! I don’t want to be in this club!
Leslie (10:54):
It’s like when you’re waiting for a roller coaster and the people getting off look horrible and you’re like, “Oh crap, what did I sign myself up for?” I couldn’t get off of it, I couldn’t say no you can have your ticket back, I’m getting out of line I’m gonna go sit in the teacups. You can’t do that. You have to go through it and at the end of the day, it was a wonderful thing to have so much support and to have so many people on my side and to get over feeling vulnerable.
Katie (11:29):
It’s good to have a team and your team sounds amazing. There’s an amazing story of one of your girlfriends showing up with a bottle of Fireball [Leslie laughs] and you’re like, “Okay, well I’m into the grief drinking stage of this experience.” And your mom and your sister and everyone who is so vividly come to life in your book.
You’re living with your mother right now. You moved in together after she had lost her husband and you had lost Scott. You know, this is happening all across the country right now with COVID, families are bunking up together again in ways that they wouldn’t have expected. How is living in an intergenerational home going?
Leslie (12:12):
Well, it’s really good. Actually, we moved to, like I say in the book, kidnappers don’t move to a second location and we did. We’ve now moved to a third, actually fourth because we lived with a friend Melanie, she of the Fireball, we lived with her family for a month and a half before we bought this house and now we’re in Baltimore. And you know, I guess she likes me because she keeps coming up. It’s going really good.
I think that we never thought it was gonna go badly. So many people, like my mother, had friends who were like I could never live with my daughter, hope that goes well. It was weird to cede control because when you have parents, I’m very close to my mother, was very close to my dad as well. But you know, when I was in their house, even though I was 80,000 years old I was still the kid. But when she moved into my house briefly before we moved into another house together, it was like trying to figure out your role. And she’s conscious and respectful this was my house with my husband who had just died. She didn’t move anything around, she wasn’t like “and these dishes go here” she wouldn’t do any of that. We moved in together on the neutral space, it was really great to be collaborative. There were some times where she would say something and go, "Oh I forgot you’re 45.” Or I would go, “Oh I forgot, I am 45."
My mother is my friend, she is not however my equal. I’m always going to defer to her in respect ways. There’s somethings like being comfortable with where the buck stops in terms of my sons. Or you know, the house is in my name, but it’s our house and we made the decision together. But at the end of the day, if she had said like, this is sketchy and I think there’s a pet cemetery behind it, I wouldn’t have bought it, [Katie laughs] But I needed to make sure for instance, that the room she was gonna be in, that she liked it. I need to be sure that she was comfortable- we live in the middle of the city, that sometimes we’re gonna have to park three blocks away to park. And she was cool with it. I think that she likes to say that she has gotten sort of a reward from the universe in that my son vexes me in ways that I vexed her. And she’s like “Isn’t fun, is it?”
Katie (14:45):
That’s so funny. Exactly. The revenge of the DNA. You’re gonna get exactly who you were.
Leslie (14:52):
[14:52 Inaudible][4] And my mother always says, “And there were two of you.” Sometimes I’ll go, “We were this horrible weren’t we?” And she says, “Yes you were. Two of you and little girls.” It was like [15:02 Inaudible][5]
Katie (15:05):
That’s so fun, and you were twins so she had double trouble to contend with. Brooks is a big part of your book, your son. You talk about your adoption process that you were going through and Scott unexpectedly died and the efforts you made to connect his name to your son and get him on the birth certificate which didn’t work because of you know, paperwork, this Kafkaesque paperwork you need to go through. But how do you keep him connected to Scott’s memory? Would you be willing to talk about that?
Leslie (15:38):
I will. It’s so funny because now he’s like a person. He was a baby but now he’s a person and we’ve had discussions. So I’m not gonna betray too many confidence. But I will say that he loves watching video of him. He wants to see video and he asks questions about things like: what were we doing there? What was that about? Was this my dad’s, this thingy? There’s some things he’s decided was Scott’s and I go, “Actually, that was mine.” And he goes, “I don’t care it was dad’s.” I go, “Great, I don’t care.” [Katie laughs]
But it’s been interesting being near my family and near Scott’s family and not being able to really see anybody because of COVID. But we’re close to Scott’s brother and we talk to Scott’s dad. We haven’t been able to physically see anyone but we keep in touch with his cousins. So, that’s really lovely. He gets gifts from people and stuff, and I say, let’s call them on video and talk to them. So, he knows he has this family support, he knows why we celebrate Hanukkah even though I’m not Jewish. He understands why it’s important to me if we’re going to watch the Ravens at a friends how’s that he wears a jersey or whatever.
He will begin, he’s already begun to go, “It’s not fair.” The other day we had a conversation, he goes, “This isn’t fair. This isn’t fair that he’s not here” I was like, “It is not, it is the most unfair thing in the world. I’m never gonna lie to you, kid.” I told that kind, I think it was in the book, I was never gonna lie to him. Besides not being able to figure out how to tell him about death, I am always going to be as honest as possible and much in the spirit of the book which is like, I don’t believe in fluffy things that make you pretend that you’re not hurting. I would never pretend that this isn’t awful for him and that this thing I can’t give that I want to give him so badly, I can’t. That sucks.
Katie (17:36):
It does suck and I think you speak about that so candidly and honestly in the book and that struggle of how shitty it is and it’s just getting dealt that horrendous-
Leslie (17:51):
That’s become my favorite word by the way, shitty. I thought that other curse words are my favorite but it is just so truly evocative and that’s exactly what it is. It is excrement. It is smelly and nasty on your shoe, it’s awful.
Katie (18:09):
Do you think that you would be writing about other things related to Scott and your mother? Would you consider writing a book about intergenerational living? Do you feel like this is the story you needed to tell and you’re gonna return more to journalism? What’s your writing?
Because this book is so— I want every single person listening to this to go out and buy not one copy but two. Enjoy it for yourself and give it to somebody in your life that you love. Because it’s just so funny and wise and it’s a love story. There’s so much about how you met Scott and your differences. You know, you’re Baptist, he’s Jewish, there’s just so many interesting threads that run through this and it’s written with so much humor and so much love. I just really adored it, but I felt weird, like should I be enjoying this book so much [laughs] because it’s about something that’s so painful. Where do you see your writing going next?
Leslie (19:08):
Well, I’m working on a novel I can’t talk a lot about but you’d be shocked to know it’s got grief and black people in it, so there’s that. I am doing some freelancing right now. I was doing corporate communications for a little bit and I’m not doing that right now. I’ve decided that I should be writing about this stuff. So, I’m doing more features and stuff and doing, you know working and speaking about grief and about racism about motherhood and that kind of thing. There’s some cool stuff going on with the book, we’ve optioned it, we don’t have any deals yet or anything, but hopefully, that will become on a screen at some place at some point.
I think this is just the truth if the book had become like a big pre-COVID runaway hit and they were clamoring for me to write another memoir or whatever. It’s hard when I’m still trying to sell this one.
Katie (20:02):
Gotcha.
Leslie (20:03):
Maybe something else will happen where I’ll go, yeah I gotta write about that. I love the idea of the intergenerational thing. Once again, you’re right, things are so different now, so many people, it’s like an apocalypse. So many people wound up living where they live, they had gone to visit people and that’s where they wound up, or they took one last trip before everything shut down and moved in with their parents or near family or whatever, or they’re living someplace completely different.
Katie (20:31):
So many dislocating things. It’s funny, in my house, my son moved, so we’re sort of virtual on March 11 which was the night that my daughter came home from university abroad and that remains fixed in my mind as the day this all went sideways. And I was saying to my husband like, should be we acknowledging this day in some way? We haven’t landed anywhere. I don’t know that I want to mark it, but it’s been a year, I dunno. What is your thinking on that? Do you believe in marking milestones of things that are terrible?
Leslie (21:05):
Well, my book came out March 10, so that’s gonna be an interesting milestone. March 2 was when I had my book launched at it was wonderful. It was in Palm Beach and James Patterson, the author, interviewed me, he’s been really great to me for a long time. And that was the weekend of my anniversary. My 10th anniversary would have been February 28. And the Speaker Series that I did happened to be at the hotel where we got married so it was all kismet and I believed in all of it. I didn’t know this was coming. I had all these people like my grandma and my aunts and uncles and all these people came down and we had a really great time. I had like, extended vacation and I expected to be starting like a small tour and then doing some more stuff. And then everything started getting canceled. So, these dates are in my head about when my last thing was, the book came out the 10th, I was supposed to have been in New York for talks at Google.
Katie (22:05):
Amazing.
Leslie (22:06):
So yeah, that was the day before. March 9 I was supposed to have done it, I was gonna stay overnight with friends and then fly back on the day the book came out so I could wake up in New York, you know. Very Carrie Bradshaw-esque, you know, and be the day I was a published author [Katie laughs] [22:22 Inaudible][6] and none of that happened.
Katie (22:24):
Wear some Manalo Blahniks and go stomping around Central Park.
Leslie (22:27):
Stomp around Central Park, and none of that happened. Things got canceled really quick and I was like,“Oh, okay.” But I’m part of this really great group called Lockdown Literature which is made up of many authors whose books came out between March and like, July or August, whose stuff was really messed up by it. Canceled tours, canceled appearances. I wound up doing the talk to Google thing, but from my living room. And I did the Today Show. That got canceled, I was supposed to be there with Hoda and Jenna and I did it once again from my room. It was a different thing, it wasn’t about my book it was about grief. They were really great because they really wanted to have me on so they found some way to have me on, and they kept flashing the picture of my book, I was like, “Yay, thank you.” But everything was different. I thought honestly, I have a child, so I don’t travel a lot by myself but there were gonna be these opportunities to be by myself in New York for two days, or in this place for two days, or whatever and I thought I’d meet some hot writer dude in a tweed jacket and that could be cool and none of that happened. [laughs]
Katie (23:36):
Well, we need to figure out something for March 2nd or 10th where you can have the celebration that you, you know
Leslie (23:42):
Posted a lot of pictures of me a James Patterson. The 10th I’ll probably just order something yummy to eat. And this group that I’m in, they’ve started publishing, “Hey, this is so-and-so’s book anniversary” and it’s really neat. It’s been really neat to see how people have been so supportive and so lovely. And everyone’s in the same book. Very few people sold the books they thought they were gonna sell or did the things there were supposed to do. I think we’re all bonded in, you know, it just happened to come out then, that’s just when the date was. I took it personally literally for about a day and then thought this is stupid. Literally, people are dying. The privileged position, “Oh I won’t be able to be on the Today Show and I wanted to.” I mean, shut up. [Katie laughs] Not that big of a deal.
Katie (24:33):
It’s a big deal though. That’s a very cool cultural touchstone and milestone to have it roll out. And super disappointing to have it go sideways.
Leslie (24:45):
The good part is, it’s finding people like I said, in this moment of mass grief, it’s finding people. Every other day, I get a text or a message on Instagram or something, literally every other day, about people who have found the book and that makes me happy that’s why I did that, it was about that moment. And I’m just honored, man. Like to talk to you and be like, “I got it” and didn’t go, “You’re weird why are you laughing at this?” It means a lot to me. So, I think that the length of, the life of this book is much more spread out and much more significant than I had imagined.
Katie (25:25):
There are so many just laugh out loud, funny, you’re such a wry observer of life. So many funny, hilarious moments. I need to come up with a new word, you’re the wordsmith, I have to stop saying hilarious. But I was dying it was so funny and so vivid. And I really felt like I got to know Scott. I love that his best friend said, “This can’t all be about Scott’s death, you have to introduce him.” And we learned so much about him, why he was special and like super cool, and a Ravens fan and so many things. Calling the lobster place, get refunds, [Leslie laughs] and just like hilarious, vivid imagery. It was just so special to experience. I dunno. I just, can’t say how much I loved this book, I just so enjoyed it.
Leslie (26:15):
Thank you. And I will tell you that the biggest compliments I have gotten have been from members of his family, people that said, “You nailed it. You nailed it.” Because I was so nervous about like his cousins you know. I’m close to several of them and I was like, oh no. And they would call, “Hey, I read the book,” and I was like, “Oh no.” They’re like, “No, no, you got it right, that’s who he was.” And his friends also. I’ve had conversations with friends of his, who talk [26:43 Inaudible][7] it was whatever,” and it’s just so great to find new memories of him. When people tell me, like what I talked about when people tell me stories about Scott I’m like “Great!” I’m learning new things about my husband who has now been dead for five and a half years and that’s rare to do that. I thought I knew so much about him and now I’m hearing more stuff and he lives on in the stories. It’s such an honor to be able to introduce him to people and it’s such an honor that people loved him enough that they want to tell me their stories about him. It’s just a big cool thing.
Katie (27:18):
I so agree. So you mentioned the five years ago, 45. So, you were 45 when Scott died and he was 44, so does that put-
Leslie (27:25):
No, we were both 44. He was 44 going on 45. He would have been 45 in two months and I turned 45 the next year. His birthday was later in the year so he didn’t go to school till after. So, it was that thing, where we were in the same class but he was born 8 months earlier basically. I was born in April and he was born in September the previous year.
Katie (27:50):
So, does that make you 49 almost 50? How old are you?
Leslie (27:53):
I’ll be 50 in April. April 26. So, I’m newly in the club.
Katie (28:00):
The very, very cool, very underrated club that we love.
Quick-shift of gears before we wrap up, tell me what you think about turning 50.
Leslie (28:10):
I’m so excited about it. Because 49 felt like it wasn’t a thing. Because I spent the year being 49 in this weird COVID limbo so, it was nothing. Literally, I can’t go, I get to click my heels up like I’m in a Jill Clayburgh movie in the 70s and be 49 before I’m 50. I got to go from one part of my house to the other part of my house. It was not even like an exciting big thing.
So, 50 is like this clarity. I feel like it’s literally and hopefully a full next 50 years or more. So literally half, and I feel like it doesn’t mean the same thing that it used to be. It doesn’t mean, it’s not about being old or, I don’t even know what that means. But I am more myself, I feel prettier and sexier. You know, there’s some cellulite that I have some questions about. [Katie laughs] But I feel, I feel just, you know-
Katie (29:15):
I think we all do.
Leslie (29:15):
Yeah, you know I feel more myself. I feel this is who I was always becoming, she’s here now. And she’s gonna be a different person at 55 and at 60, but I’m so excited. I mean, if we, I just had a conversation with a friend before I got on the phone with you about all of us who were turning these milestone ages, we’re like, “Oh we’re all gonna go to Jamaica and Vegas.” I’m not doing any of that, but I’m spending extra money on a really nice hotel downtown Baltimore because I don’t have to fly anymore. So, I’m justifying it, that I can pay a little more for the room and I’m gonna have people come one at a time and sit across from me in the room, socially distanced and drink some wine, and then they can get out. It’s gonna be like a ‘70s talk show: who’s the next guest? Come on in! Bring me some food, drop off some wine, get out. I’m excited about it. I think it’s something to celebrate-
Katie (30:08):
Oh my god, bring me the Fireball! Bring me the Fireball, Melanie.
Leslie (30:11):
[30:11 Inaudible][8]
Katie (30:13):
I love that.
Leslie (30:13):
Yes, it’s gonna be fun. And I just, I’m also at this age, I don’t feel like I’m owed a big huge trip somewhere for my 50th at expense of my health. It’ll still be there next year. Jamaica will be there next year. I wanna go to Scotland so bad. I want to go to Scotland, and walk around and look into the fog and do all that stuff over sweaters and flirt with red-headed men, that’s what I wanna do [Katie laughs] that is my dream. But it’ll be there, Scotland will still be there.
Katie (30:49):
Oh my gosh, I wanna do that with you.
Leslie (30:52):
How much fun would that be?
Katie (30:53):
We have it all waiting for us, it’s all gonna roll out again.
Leslie (30:56):
All gonna be fine. I think that’s the thing, this age has taught me.
Katie (31:00):
We have glimmers of hope.
Leslie (31:02):
Yeah, why panic, it’s gonna be fine. Everything not gonna be fine, some things will never be fine the way they were again, but we’re gonna find a different level of fine, we’re gonna find a different level of not just fine, but happy. It’s weird to say in a pandemic, I am happy, I’m not fulfilled in every moment of my life, but who is? Who ever is?
Katie (31:28):
That’s one of the things about getting older too. You realize life is very cyclical, this too shall pass, there are peaks and valleys. You need to help me word smith this because these are all these cliches that I’m dropping all over the place
Leslie (31:42):
No, it’s good! They’re cliches because they’re good and delicious and they’re very definitive and descriptive for a reason. But yeah, we have ups and downs, and there’s times when you’re gonna like this rocks, I’m so happy, and sometimes you’re like, “I’m just gonna be over here in the corner, with a cupcake.”
Katie (31:59):
Yup. The way out is through. You just have to slog through the bad stuff, and then you get through and the sun comes out again, there’s glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel. And I feel like we’re at that stage to some degree with what’s going on with the pandemic. I’m optimistic about the vaccines, I’m optimistic about sort of return to prioritizing science and organization and experts. I’m just hopeful that we have, that this is gonna be in the rearview mirror at some point. We can head to the beach and hop a plane and grab an incredible beach book, an incredible read, Black Widow: A Sad-Funny Journey Through Grief for People Who Normally Avoid Books with Words Like “Journey” in the Title because this is a must-read in my book. Leslie before we head out and wrap up, I usually ask readers if they can recommend anything. A resource or tool that’s sort of connected to our conversation. I don’t know if you have a resource about grief that was helpful to you, or if there’s something else you want to share with our audience.
Leslie (33:12):
Yes, there are several things. Soaring Spirits International is the group that sponsors Camp Widow and now it’s online. They’re amazing, really help widowed people. Read anything by Nora McInerny, who is now a friend of mine, who wrote Hot Young Widows Club, she has a really great podcast, Terrible, Thanks For Asking. If you go online, widow Twitter is a trip, there’s lots of people that you can find and stuff on there. But those are two really great resources particularly for people who don’t know what they’re doing because these are both organizations that are meeting you where you are, they don’t require anything of you. They don’t say, you don’t have to know something, be something, or do something. You just have to be there and be open to talking to people and have people talk to you. It’s great. I hope they get to have Camp Widow again in person someday because that was so great. You could just sit in the back of the room and listen and then go back up to your room and cry, and it’s okay. No one’s gonna judge you, everything’s gonna be okay, everybody gets you. And these are organizations where everybody there gets you, so yeah.
Katie (34:27):
Everyone needs community and wants to be understood, that sounds so important. So, how can our listeners keep following you and your work, and find more about your writing?
Leslie (34:38):
Oh, thank you! Well, you can go to my website, which I’m doing right now. I cut all my hair off, so I had to get new headshots, so by the time, this airs it will be up and pretty and wonderful. lesliegraystreeter.com. You can just google me, that’s the basic place to go.
Katie (34:56):
We love the Google, we love the Google.
Leslie (34:59):
My book is everywhere. I’m considering starting a podcast, we’ll see if that happens. You’re so good at this, I think I’d just go on a tangent about Law & Order episodes and like, feet or something.
Katie (35:13):
Oh my god, people love that, are you kidding? There are people obsessed with Law & Order, feet, and just you know, and tangents, honestly. You would be great at that, I would love that.
Leslie (35:23):
I am a tangent [both laugh]. I am a tangent, I am a possibility. Yes, I am a tangent, it is true.
Katie (35:30):
Oh my god, that is so fantastic, I’m a tangent, why not? You can be whatever you want, you’re about to be 50, you can be a tangent.
Leslie (35:36):
This is what I’m saying, this has been so much fun. I love talking to people that are our age. I do feel sometimes like I’m just looking for people that I can wave my cane with collectively and go “Ahh young people, what do they know?” [Katie laughs] Because we don’t have to explain anything to anybody, we get it. I would never want to have a conversation about being 50 with someone who was 35.
Katie (36:01):
No exactly, people who are 35 think 50 is ancient. It’s sort of hilarious, and not. I think we talked about this, we talked about this on our pre-call. I feel completely limitless, unstoppable, although I wish my back were 26. But otherwise, I’m good.
Leslie (36:18):
Sometimes when I do my run-walk now, 35-year-old me would be like, "Why are you walking at all?” And I’m like, “But I ran 30 seconds, shut up.”
Katie (36:27):
We’re creaky but that’s okay. We’re still hot, we’re still hip, we’re still doing things.
Leslie (36:34):
I laugh about the fact that I was dating someone briefly where I was like, “You gonna have to call me before 7, and if I haven’t talked to you before 7 I’ll talk to you tomorrow.” He was like, “I’m free at 9:30.” I’m like, “Haha!”
Katie (36:47):
[Katie laughs] You’re like this is never gonna work, okay, delete. I’m swiping left on somebody else, you are done.
Leslie (36:55):
He was lovely, but it’s just I have a kid, and I was up really early for work and if I was gonna do any working out. I didn’t wanna talk before 7 because I was talking to my kid and then after 7:30-
Katie (37:08):
I know we’re dunzo, we’re like texting our sisters and thumbing through magazines, Instagram scrolling.
Leslie (37:17):
…I can’t have a deep conversation about relationships at 9:30 at night on a Wednesday.
Katie (37:24):
Really. My mom used to always say having kids is gonna make you a morning person, but that was so not true. But turning 45 made me a morning person, it was like, I’m up. I’ve been awake since 3 am, I’m ready, let’s do this, I’m ready for this day.
Leslie (37:41):
My grandfather would wake up at 5:30 at start making grits, and I was like, “Why is he up so early?” He’s like, “Because he’s old.” [laughs]
Katie (37:48):
Because he’s old, we don’t sleep any longer, we just go, go, go.
Oh my god, Leslie, this has been so fun, thank you for coming on and I’m so excited about your book, and I’m so happy to be sharing it with people. I was raised, my mom’s a librarian, my dad is like a book addict, he’s a book shopper, so I was raised by both types of book people, like, we borrow books and we buy them. I love books, I absolutely adore memoirs and I just can’t recommend it enough. So, I want everyone who is listening to buy not one, not two, but three, one for yourself, two for your girlfriends. And thank you, Leslie, thank you for being with me.
Leslie (38:26):
Thank you so much for having me.
Katie (38:28):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. If you enjoy the show, please head to Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, to review the show. And come keep me company over on Instagram @acertainagepod. Do not make me hang out there alone, I love seeing you, I love hearing your comments and seeing you in action.
I hope you’ll join me next week as I sit down with story-teller, Michelle Fishburne, to hear about her pandemic job loss and how it propelled her onto the open road, to criss-cross the US in an RV, filming ordinary Americans sharing their pandemic stories. See you next time, and until then: age boldly beauties.