Must Love Books with Zibby Owens of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books

Adventure and Fun
Written By Season Four
 

Show Snapshot:

Love to read? Meet Zibby Owens, podcasting powerhouse, author, big-time book lover and host of the award-winning literary podcast Moms Don’t Have Time to Read. We talk books, creativity, podcasting, and parenting— all the things. Plus, summer reads not to miss, the one book Zibby could read again and again, and the perfect book to give as a gift.

In This Episode We Cover:

 

 

1.    The surprising genesis of Zibby’s podcasting career.

2.    How the mom of four rejected the myth of “perfect parenting,” leaned into podcasting, and created her award-winning pod Moms Don’t Have Time to Read.

3.    Want a creative career? Time to hit Google.

4.    Zibby’s beach book not to miss before summer ends.

5.    From podcasting to TikTok – how Zibby teamed up with an international sex expert to launch the viral sensation SexTok with Zibby and Tracey.

6.    Booklover bonanza – how Zibby finds her author guests, books to read again and again, and the perfect book to give as a gift.

7.    Zibby’s not-to-miss anthology of quarantine essays and her upcoming memoir.

8.    Want joy in your life? It’s up to you to claim it.

Quotable:

I feel on fire in a way. I am so lucky to be getting to do all this stuff...to be learning again. I missed it. I really missed school. I missed working really hard, and being stressed, and reading all the time. And now I’m doing that again and it’s so electrifying and satisfying.

I feel like I’m constantly fighting the clock. I’m trying to fit it all in, all that I want to do, what I want to accomplish. It’s up to us to claim our joy, and no matter how challenging a time—even in the midst of grief and loss—you have to find ways to get that laugh or take that time. We can’t just wait until later. Now is the moment.

 

Transcript

Katie Fogarty (00:02):
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women on life after 50 who are unafraid to age out loud. I’m your host, Katie Fogarty. 

Buckle up beauties, we have a super show on deck. I’m joined by podcasting powerhouse, author, and big-time book lover, Zibby Owens, the creator of the Moms Don’t Have Time To brand and media platform. You may know her from her award-winning podcast, Moms Don’t Have Time to Read, or her growing lists of podcasts, publications, and book picks for Good Morning America. Maybe you’ve tuned into her TikTok show, SexTok, with Zibby and Tracey. You might have bumped into her on the playground with one of her four kids or maybe you’re just meeting her today. Any which way, you are in for a treat. We are gonna talk books, creativity, podcasting, and parenting— all the things. Welcome, Zibby.

Zibby Owens (00:49):

Wow, that was the best intro ever. [both laugh] Thank you for that, that was great.

Katie (00:54):
I’m so excited to have you today. I’m truly grateful you found the time because you have a full plate, which I love, and I want to dive into each one of your projects. But I would love to start by learning how it all began. How did you launch the original podcast and why did you choose to focus on books?

Zibby (01:13):

None of this was really planned. It all basically started soon after I got divorced. I had four kids and I ended up with a little bit of extra time to write and read and remember who I was and I also had been getting completely fed up with all the demands on moms these days. The last straw for me was when the preschool teachers asked for donations of a roll of toilet paper without the toilet paper on it, just the cardboard underneath. [Katie laughs] And I was like, you know what, I am done, I’m drawing the line in the sand, I cannot do this. And I had a lot of kids in part because I love kids and I wasn’t even able to spend time on “my days” with them, because I was so busy emailing about them and setting up playdates and dealing with forms and all this stuff, and I just had enough.

Katie (01:59):
That’s amazing.

Zibby (02:00):
So, I wrote this essay called A Mother’s Right to Sanity for Huff Post and went to bed and woke up and it had, I dunno, 65,000 views or something like that. So, that inspired me to keep doing lots of writing which I had been doing my whole life and… I am getting to how this became a podcast. [Katie laughs] So, I amassed a bunch of essays and then my soon-to-be-husband then, now my husband, said, “Why don’t you collect all these essays into a book?” And I said, “Ugh, moms don’t have time to read books.” And I was like, oh that’s so funny, that’ll be the name of my book. But then I found out that no one in publishing thought that was funny and another girlfriend who was an author said that I should start a podcast, which I didn’t even know what that was. But I thought, well if it’s not gonna be a book, I might as well use the title and make it into a podcast. And I was always like, sending articles and recommending books and ripping things out of magazines and forwarding things. So, at first I thought I would just read great essays to people who didn’t have time to read them or read excerpts of books, but then I found out that was illegal so I thought, well I guess I’ll just interview authors. And I knew like, three authors and I thought, well, I’ll just try it and see how it goes. And that is how it started, long story, sorry.

Katie (03:13):
No, no, no. You’re a great story teller, I’m hanging on every word. I love that it was a bit serendipitous. And that toilet paper thing would have broken me as well, [Zibby laughs] like, moms do not have time to unroll all the toilet paper, or police the bathroom to make sure that little cardboard insert is not being thrown out.

Zibby (0:03:30.9):
Right? Ugh, of all the things.

Katie (03:32):
That is absolutely hilarious. I love how you just dove into podcasting even though it was sort of new to you. How many years ago was that? Was it seven? Am I correct?

Zibby (03:43):
No, no, no, only three years. 2018, March of 2018. And yeah, I just googled how to start a podcast. Actually, I think I googled, easiest way to start a podcast [both laugh] or even like, how to do a podcast in your phone, because I didn’t have a microphone or anything to start with. And the first episode I downloaded this app or whatever, and I just recorded into my phone, like in my bedroom while my kids were upstairs and I was like, all right well that’s episode one.

Katie (04:11):
Oh my god, that is so wild I love that. The easiest way… I love Google. Google can teach you anything. Is that how you find your authors? Because you podcast every day, am I correct? You’re talking to a different author every day?

Zibby (04:26):
Yeah. Sometimes I have to release like, three a day just to keep up with this backlog. I have a really hard time saying, “No.” [laughs]

Katie (04:35):
Well, I’m so glad you’re saying yes to me. [laughs]

Zibby (0:04:38.7):
Oh my gosh, no don’t. I really wanted to be on your show, I was really excited. But again, I have to like, I’m like having a fake ID in the wrong direction to get on your show, I’m only 44. [laughs] 

Katie (04:48):
Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. I’ve had a couple of younger guests too, and it is sort of funny. I had a woman on the show a couple of episodes ago, and she was like, “I feel like I had to lie about my age.” So that’s extremely funny.

So tell me a little bit about how you do surface all these authors. If you’re releasing a podcast a day, if you’re releasing sometimes three podcasts. Are the authors finding you at this point? Because you’ve really established sort of a beachhead as a literary podcaster. Tell me how you surface your guests.

Zibby (05:19):
I get pitched so many books, I mean I get probably, I dunno, maybe 20 emails a day of book pitches from publicists, from individuals who have written books. They’re just everywhere. So I could fill my show, I could have like, years booked right now with just the pitches I’ve gotten. So, I spend a lot of time going through and figuring out what I wanna do and then I also proactively go through and see what books are coming out each month and which ones I would want to have on the show so I’m not totally responsive, I want to be more proactive as well. And then I just reach out to publicists. Or a lot of time I honestly reach out with DMs on Instagram, or I comment like, “Oh my gosh this book looks so good.” And I don’t even mean to you know, but it really does look good or somebody posts about something. So, there is no shortage of great books and so many books look good to me. And it’s also, you know, I hate passing up the opportunity to get to know somebody else. So anyway, it’s just, I have to get better at saying “No” but I can’t seem to.

Katie (06:24):
No, it’s there are so many wonderful books out there. I totally agree, I’m a book lover, I love that you’re focusing on this. My mom’s a librarian.

Zibby (06:31):
Aww.

Katie (06:31):
And my dad is a compulsive book buyer. And like the joke among my friend group was that I was the only one that anyone knew growing up whose living room books were arranged in the Dewey Decimal System [Zibby laughs] because like, my family is obsessed with books, so that’s why I was so excited to have you on this show. So we’re talking about summer fun all month long, and books are obviously a big part of that, beach reads. We’re gonna dive into some of your other projects, but I would love to hear, you know, what you’re reading now and maybe the top three books that you wanna recommend to our listeners that they put in their beach bag before the summer ends. 

Zibby (07:05):
They should definitely read The Paper Palace by Miranda Cowley Heller which is so good and I feel like would be perfect for your audience because it is a woman of a certain age who has three kids, two of them are like 10, I think they’re twins and one is maybe 16. And it’s about what you do when you’re basically happily married but the true love of your life, forever, comes along and what do you do? And it all takes place in Cape Cod and it’s beautifully written. I thought I had discovered it, but then it was a Reese’s book pick—which I was totally annoyed about [Katie laughs] because I was like, well I guess it’s not my pick anymore. So, that’s really great. And that’s again, The Paper Palace. I also loved Between Two Kingdoms, which is a memoir by Suleika Jaouad about I think it’s called, A Memoir of a Life Interrupted, is the subtitle, and it’s about how she got cancer at a young age and works through it. But it’s really about life and inspiration and dealing with life, sort of, when it’s suspended for whatever reason, which most people at one point or another go through, whether through loss or grief or whatever. That was also amazing.

Katie (08:16):
Sounds fabulous. 

Zibby (08:16):
Those are probably my top two of the summer so far.

Katie (08:18):

Okay, well I’m putting both of those on my list. I’ve actually heard the Between Two Kingdoms title floating around and I didn’t realize what it was about, and it sounds really interesting. Zibby in a minute we’re gonna dive into your Sex Talk with Tracey [Zibby laughs]. Tracey was actually a guest on this show and for any listeners who have missed that episode in Season 3, please go back and listen to it. Tracey Cox came on to talk about Great Sex After 50, which is her most recent book, but she’s written 17 others and she and Zibby have a very buzzy, very hot, viral, Sex Tok, but we’re gonna take a quick ad break and talk about that when we return.

[Ad break]

Katie (10:02):
Okay, Zibby we’re back. I loved having Tracey Cox on the show. You introduced me to her, which I was really grateful for and I know that you launched a podcast with her and then started showing it on TikTok. I’m gonna confess that I’m 51 and I have never been on TikTok, I know my kids love it. Tell us a little bit about Sex Tok and how it got started and what listeners can expect and find on it.

Zibby (10:29):
So originally it was called, Moms Don’t Have Time to Have Sex. That was one of the sections of the anthology I had that came out recently, and when I interviewed her, just like you, I dunno, I like fell in love with her. I was like she’s so funny and smart, and I was like, “Perfect, she and I should do this show.” At first, I said to Tracey, “You should do this show, you should have a show.” And she was like, “No, I wanna talk to you on the show.” So, we came up with the format that we would do three anonymously sourced questions each episode that I would say out loud, I would read them and she would answer, and then she’d give the sex tip of the week and my social media manager took a real interest in this whole thing and she was like, “Why don’t we try marketing this on TikTok?” And we were like, “Okay, sure whatever.” 

 So, I didn’t really pay much attention to it, she started a separate account for it on TikTok. I had a little TikTok account myself that my teens set up for me, which nobody ever looks at which is fine, [Katie laughs] I mean it’s not fine, but it is what it is. Anyway, so Nina started this new account for us and literally like, in the bathroom brushing my teeth and I was like, I wonder if I should check that TikTok account and see whatever happened to it. So my husband is on the other side in bed in our room and I’m nearby in the bathroom and I opened it up and I was like [gasps] because like, in big letters like over this talking head of me is like, “How often should I be having sex?” And then the next one was like, what was it, like, “It’s really painful to have sex, what should I do?” And I was like, oh my gosh, it looks like I’m asking all these questions [Katie laughs] and it was one after another and before I knew it, like one of our videos has 1.8 million views.

 Katie (12:12):
Woah!

Zibby (12:13):
Yeah, people were like doing duets with me, meaning they would put their face on. I was like, I cannot believe this is happening, I was completely mortified. I was like, what does this even have to do with my brand, what am I doing?

Katie (12:26):
That’s so funny.

Zibby (12:28):
But it’s so fun. I just can’t help myself, it’s so fun. We actually like, we won the platinum award from the dotCOMM Awards for best comedy podcast [Katie laughs] and we were like, we didn’t even know we were doing a comedy. Like, I laugh all the time because I’m so uncomfortable with the material and she’s you know, dry and British and hilarious.

Katie (12:49):
Yes. Well you know, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable to try new things. And obviously, it hit a nerve because people have so many questions. One of the things I loved about Tracey’s book is that it’s both practical and explicit. Right, it’s like, very direct. So the TikTok is the same thing. So what is the most useful piece of advice that you’ve heard her share with listeners?

Zibby (13:12):
Oh man. The most useful…I don’t know. [laughs]

Katie (13:20):
There are too many pieces of advice.

Zibby (13:22):
I don’t know how to answer that. 

Katie (13:24):

What about the most embarrassing thing? Is that easier?

Zibby (13:26):

Oh my gosh, we had a whole thing today about different sex toys and there’s something called pegging, which I didn’t even— Okay, here’s how different Tracey and I are.

Katie (13:33):
What’s that?

Zibby (13:34):
Exactly. The question was, my husband wants to peg with me, what is that? And I didn’t know what it was until she told me today. And she not only knows what it is but its part of her sex toy line. [laughs]

Katie (13:46):
Woah, okay.

Zibby (13:47):
It’s like how to help you do this, this like, anyway I don’t even wanna talk about it. [Katie laughs] So yeah, that’s always embarrassing.

Katie (13:56):
Okay, everyone’s gonna have to like, the moment the show is over, go hit the Google and just like Google, “What is the easiest way to peg?” Because we want—

 Zibby (14:04):
No, don’t. Don’t do that.

Katie (14:05):
Don’t, oh okay.

Zibby (14:06):
[laughs] you don’t wanna do that. 

Katie (14:07):

Okay, oh my god.

Zibby (14:09):

No, no. I don’t think you wanna do that. But go listen to our podcast about it maybe. It’s on sextalkpod.com where all our podcasts, or just Sex Talk with Zibby and Tracey. And listen to it, because she explains it and then you won’t have some weird search history.

Katie (14:23):
Okay, all right, that’s important because you might be sharing your computer with your family. I’ll put this into the show notes so that people can go find it because she’s wonderful and you’ve been getting great reviews for it and I know it's been blowing up. So I think it’s something that women listening to the show would be curious about but it’s also the kind of thing that maybe you can direct your daughters to, or your sisters, or your friends because the more you know the more you know and it’s important to have that information.

Zibby (14:48):
And PS, a lot of men listen to the show.

Katie (14:50):
I bet.

 Zibby (14:50):
Just sayin’. [laughs]

Katie (14:53):
I bet, oh my gosh that’s so funny. Zibby you mentioned earlier your pandemic Quarantine Anthology, which I have and I love. And one of the reasons for which I bought it is because I’m a fan of your brand and your podcast, but two of the women who’ve been on my show appeared in it, Karen Dukess wrote a piece and Rachel Levy Lesser and I love them both so I wanted to support the project. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about the Quarantine Anthology, how it came to be, and what they can expect if they hit Amazon or bookshop.org and buy it?

Zibby (15:25):
Sure. And also I was on your site earlier today and Terri Cheney who you interviewed is gonna be in my second anthology which comes out in November. 

Katie (15:33):
I loved her. I loved her, I loved her, I loved her.

Zibby (15:34):
Yeah, she’s amazing. Amazing. So, it’s called A Quarantine Anthology because it originally came out during the quarantine as a collection of essays each week; like an online magazine, if you will. And I had envisioned it as a website, based on the topics that moms didn’t have time to do, and I picked the top five to get started: moms don’t have time to eat, workout, have sex, read, and breathe. And when the pandemic started, I kept releasing—with the help of several editors and other authors who I was working with—a couple of these every week. And after a few months, we stopped releasing them; I felt like people did have… I called it We Found Time at the time. Then I felt like, okay, well it’s summer, maybe people do have time so I’ll stop releasing these. 

 And then come September I was like, I wonder how many essays I released? And there were over 60. And I put them all in one document and I was like oh, it’s a book! It’s long enough to be a book. So, that is how it became an anthology, it’s called Moms Don’t Have Time To: A Quarantine Anthology. I donated all the proceeds to COVID research at Mount Sinai Health System in honor of my late mother-in-law and late grandmother-in-law, both of whom passed away from COVID last summer. And its a timeless collection of things, of women’s thoughts by best-selling authors, actresses, influencers, all sorts of people, all of whom had been on my podcast, so they all have to have written a book. And they range from why one person has chosen, Tiffany Shlain doesn’t use technology one day a week, to Janice Kaplan talking about going to Japan with her grown son who can finally lead her around somewhere now that he’s college age. Just an assortment, Gretchen Rubin’s tips on readings, Evangeline Lilly on going to the movies and how she picks her projects. They’re really little letters, little diary entry-type things from really amazing writers. So, I dunno, for me it’s such a thrill to read an essay by somebody I love, so I collected them all and that’s how it became a book. And thank you for buying it, that’s so nice of you.

Katie (17:48):
Of course. And its such a wonderful snapshot and I think it’s such a great reminder of, sort of, what we went through and how we interacted with that period of time. I remember seeing your social media sort of updates about your mother-in-law’s battle with COVID, it was such a hard time. It’s amazing that you were able to produce this and create some good and donate the money from the book to that. You know, the book touches a lot on resilience and obviously you’ve experienced loss, you mentioned at the top of the show that you went through a divorce, you lost two loved ones to COVID. What, if anything, have you learned about resilience from talking to these different authors, by creating that anthology? 

Zibby (18:38):
I’ve learned a lot, well I’ve learned a lot from loss in general. I also lost my best friend in 9/11, she was my roommate and that sparked off this whole deeper understanding of life, honestly. I know my brand is Moms Don’t Have Time To, as kind of, tongue-in-cheek that we’re all so busy, but I do think there’s a deeper message in there, that all our time is limited. And I am the type of person who thinks about that on a daily basis and I feel like I’m constantly fighting the clock, I’m trying to fit it all in, what I want to do, what I want to accomplish, all the stuff in life. And without all these great things that we joke about—eating, working out, having sex, sleep, all these things that I have people write essays about—what is there if we don’t make time for all these things? What is life really? What’s the whole point of this whole thing? So, I’ve learned from the authors that we have to make time, because it’s like, going away right before our eyes. So, it’s up to us to claim our joy and no matter how challenging a time, even in the midst of grief and loss, you have to find those ways to get that laugh, or take that time out or whatever because this is all we have and like, we can’t just wait until later. Now is the moment. So, that’s kind of my main takeaway.

Katie (20:03):
I love that. Don’t postpone joy you know, claim it now. It’s funny, I just posted something on my social media, it was a quote from one of the guests on the show, it was actually Nancy Davis Kho, the podcaster behind the well-known music podcast, Midlife Mixtape, and she talks about the notion of gratitude and how you find what you look for. You know, and so if you’re looking for things to be grateful for, you can find them. If you’re looking to have joy, you can find it. But it’s a double-sided coin. If you’re looking for things to be upset about or worried about, you’re definitely gonna find those. So, I love that one of your takeaways is this notion that we’re responsible for claiming our own joy.

Zibby (20:45):
Yes.

Katie (20:46):
Zibby, I’m curious, how do you stay creative? Because you have a full plate. We’re talking, you’ve got multiple podcasts at this point, you have one quarantine anthology done, you’ve got another one in the works, I know from actually seeing this on the news that you’re writing a memoir. You know, how do you remain creative across these different types of platforms? Do you ever come to a creative...is it an ebb and flow? How do you manage it?

Zibby (21:12):
No, it’s not too much of an ebb and flow. I also have Moms Don’t Have Time to Write which is our Medium publication [Katie laughs]. Yeah, my point in saying that too, and I’m the editor-in-chief but I’m not involved in the day-to-day, but part of what helps is that I’ve put together this amazing but tiny team of people who help and who are way better than me in a lot of different ways. So, when I feel confident that things are being managed well, like Jordan Blumetti who runs Moms Don’t Have Time to Write, I check in with him, once a week and he has it all covered and he sends me these amazing essays. I like to set up the things, like, “Hey let’s do this cool Vanity Fair end page thing,” and then like, he can run with it. So, I think having a team in place, both professionally and on the home front, so that I know my kids are always taken care of and that everything is great. I mean, I’m in the next room and all that, so that’s fine too. So that gives me the peace of mind to be able to be creative. It’s all kind of feeding on itself, I’m like watching it from above. I can feel it happening, I’m in such a state right now of information influx. So, I’m talking to so many people all the time and in different walks of life, right, everybody has written a book but that spans from chefs to athletes, to put literary figures, to all sorts of people and I’m just getting so much in, that it’s very easy for me to put stuff out again. Right, I just feel like I have all this input like if you’re getting all sorts of ingredients and mixing them up, you’re gonna come out with some cookies, right? [laughs]

Katie (22:50):

Right, no absolutely.

Zibby (22:51):
So that’s how I feel, I feel sort of on fire in a way in that I am so lucky to be getting all this stuff in and learning again and I missed it. I mean I really missed school. I missed working really hard and being stressed and reading all the time and learning and all of that and now I’m doing that again and it’s so electrifying and satisfying for me that it just is building on itself. So, no, I don’t really feel like… Each conversation I talk to people I’m like, “Oh you should do this,” or, “Have you thought about this?” It’s like the fifteenth podcast I’ve done that week. I dunno, making sure you take in enough inputs to put the stuff back out again I think is really important. 

Katie (23:37):
I think that’s so spot on. When you’re in action when you’re having all your senses firing with the conversations, the different people. I love that you really touched upon it, you’re talking to authors but they cross different sectors, different expertise, and that kind of fuels you a little bit. You work in both audio and digital which we’ve already talked about. You do your podcasting, you’re creating social media content, you’re creating digital content, you’re writing for Medium. I know that you’ve done Instagram Live shows and you’ve got your Sex Tok. Do you have a preferred format or do you love having your fingers in each one of these different mediums?

Zibby (24:17):
Yeah, I like the whole thing. 

 Katie (24:18):
[laughs] I want the whole enchilada, I want it all.

Zibby (24:22):
[laughs] I want even more. I’m actually about to start something else very cool that I can’t talk about yet, but no, I just want to do more and more cool things. I like the challenge of figuring out how to try something new and make it work, I find that really exciting. Yeah, I like doing all the different things. 

Katie (24:44):
Okay, that makes sense. So, tell me Zibby, you’ve got four kids, do they love books too? I know that this has been a topic of conversation, my kids are 21, 18, and 14 and over the years I’ve heard from other moms that their kids are not into reading and that can be a bit heartbreaking. My kids have gone through different phases and I would say they all love to read now and they’re active readers about the things they care about. Where do your kids land and how did you encourage that?

Zibby (25:11):
Unfortunately, they see it as like, my thing. [laughs] 

Katie (25:16):
Right. Mom’s into it, so it’s not cool, we’re not doing it.

Zibby (25:18):
Exactly. I’m like, no, no, no it’s not like that. I mean, they do like to read. But it’s really my last, my fourth kid, who is only six and a half, he’s my biggest reader. He reads a lot, he read really early. I’ll often find him curled up in bed with one leg over the other like he’s a little old man reading a book in bed. 

Katie (25:40):

So cute.

Zibby (25:40):

The other ones, yeah, I have to say, technology is sort of the death of the book around here. Road Blocks versus graphic novels and all of that. We struggle with limiting screen time if you will. They would all say they love books, they just would rather not read them right now. [both laugh] 

Katie (26:04):
Right, they love them in theory. I know when my kids, my kids as I said they’re older—they’re high school, college. But when they were young in elementary school, we used to trade reading for screen time. So, you’d have to read a half an hour and then you could have half an hour on whatever it was, Webkinz at the time, I guess now it would be Fortnite. My mom used to do reading challenges too where she would every summer if you read ten books and told her about them you could get like a hundred dollars, ten dollars a book. Just to game-ify it because kids are into games, they’d rather do the games. I think when you sort of put the work in. I love reading so much, it’s such a joy, it’s just something that’s so integral to my life, I was just curious since books are a big part of your day I was wondering how your kids…

Zibby (26:50):
I thought about doing something that like, I just don’t ever want books to be seen as the thing you have to do.

Katie (26:56):
Like a chore.

Zibby (26:56):
Because I love them so much, I dunno, I just never wanted to be like, you have to read before you do this. 

Katie (27:02):
Yeah, no I get it.

Zibby (27:03):
I dunno. But I’m probably doing it all wrong. I feel the same way about food. It’s like, they have a cookie for breakfast, I dunno… [Katie laughs] I guess I’m just always rebelling against the way I was…

Katie (27:12):
By the way, you’re the fun mom. Cookies for breakfast, I wanna live with you. [laughs]

Zibby (27:15):
I know, I’m like, what am I doing? The mornings are like, people are walking around eating cookies on their iPads, I’m like, I am the worst mom ever. [laughs]

Katie (27:23):
Oh my god that’s so funny. I remember one of my good friends years ago, we each had three kids. And she was saying, with the first kid, you didn’t want them to have cookies. With the second one, you would hand them a cookie while you were on the phone. And then with the third kid, you would kick the cookie across the floor as long as they were quiet. [both laugh] And by the way, that’s why you’re third is like, super well-adjusted. My third is just like, roll with the punches, so easy going. You know, it’s tricky. But speaking of books, I know that you are at work on a memoir, so tell us about that, how is that going? Is it hard to carve out time, are you waking up ready, So excited to sit down and clack away at the keyboard? How’s the memoir writing going?

Zibby (28:03):
It’s good. I finished a draft already and have to do some edits this week and it was really fun. I don’t know, it went by so fast, I feel like I didn’t even really do it. But I did it mostly in the early mornings and on the weekends when I didn’t have the kids. So I would just get up super early at like 5, even without the kids. You know, my dog was up that time anyway. I would just get up, hopefully even before my husband would wake up I could write for 4 hours. It just kind of flowed out of me really quickly. The editing I kind of despise, I have to be honest. [Katie laughs] I really like to write, I don’t love editing my own work and trying to, move things around when it’s like, “Ohh”…

Katie (0:28:48.3):
It’s hard, you get attached to your words. 

Zibby (28:50):
Yeah, it’s hard.

Katie (28:52):
So do you need to edit it before it goes to your editor? Is that the sort of process for those of us who haven’t done this before?

Zibby (28:57):
I was going to send it to her but then I asked one of my really good friends to read it who reads like a book a day basically and I was like, tell me honestly what you think. And she had such good edits that I shared her edits with my editor. And she said, “Okay, make those edits and then send it to me." She’s like, I probably would have made similar edits, they were really good. So, I couldn’t not do it. So, I’m trying to make it the best I can and then have my editor get to work. But hopefully the whole thing is supposed to be completed by September and it’s already July so I dunno. [laughs]

Katie (29:29):
It sounds like you’re making good progress. 

Zibby (29:31):
Yeah we’ll see. But it’s been really fun and it’s been seriously a dream of mine to do a memoir. I’ve had so many projects rejected and the fact that I could finally sell it was like such a huge thing for me. So, I’m really excited about it.

Katie (29:45):
Congratulations, that’s exciting. And I think that’s like a big part of the, you know you touched on it. Rejections come first and then you finally connect with success after you just keep going. You are, you just said 44, so you’re in your mid-40s. You’re already have had great success with your podcast and your different books. I know you write, I’ve seen Washington Post articles, and I’ve seen Good Morning America, you’re doing your memoir. As you look ahead to 50 which is what this show focuses on, what’s your take on aging? What are you excited about? It sounds like you’re raring to go for this next chapter. How do you look at aging and what does it mean to you?

Zibby (30:26):
Yeah, I mean I’m just fighting against the clock. I feel like I’m benefitting sort of, from the wisdom of where I am in life. And you know, the thought of aging kind of makes me panic in just that it’s closer to the end, but I have so much energy, and I feel like I’m not gonna stop just because what I turned 50 versus 45 or something? No, forget it. So yeah, I’m ready to help. But I also think part of aging is helping people younger than me. So I’m excited to work with younger people and help them and foster talent and find new great authors and all of that too. I’m excited to inspire and hopefully, help other people not have to be as stressed as moms as our sort of generation was, I think that’s a long-term goal of mine. So I mean, I’m really happy, I have a great marriage, it’s pretty new, three years, I just feel so lucky and I’m excited to watch my kids grow up. I feel like I’m just grateful for every day I’m getting and you know, I have a really great colorist [Katie laughs] so as long as Rich and I can still keep hanging, I feel pretty good.

Katie (31:46):
Oh my god, that’s so… hang on to that colorist, they’re very important. [laughs] Zibby before we go I wanted to end with a quick speed round. This was something that I did on my very first show and I haven’t done it in a couple of seasons and I’m looking to bring it back in Season 4 because I think it's a lot of fun. Would you be up for it with me?

Zibby (32:04):
Yes. But I might take a minute to respond, but let me try. I’ll try my best.

Katie (32:09):
Yeah, your own level of speed. Run your own race, go at your own pace. So my quick question is: book you’re reading now.

Zibby (32:16):

Oh, what book am I reading now?

Katie (32:18):

Yes.

Zibby (32:18):

I just finished Cack-Handed by Gina Yashere.

Katie (32:22):
Nice. A book you could read again and again.

Zibby (32:26):

The Paper Palace, again I really want to re-read it now that I’ve read it once. Miranda Cowley Heller. 

Katie (32:32):
Awesome. Okay, best book to give as a gift.

Zibby (32:37):
Best book, I would give a cookbook. Maybe there’s one by Julia Turshen that I really liked, I think it’s called Simply Julia or something. I always think a cookbook is a great gift.

Katie (32:49):
I agree, that’s terrific. Okay, dream author to have on your podcast who has not appeared on the show yet.

Zibby (32:57):
I’d really like to interview Michael Lewis, I haven’t had him on yet, so that’s my wishlist.

Katie (33:03):
Yeah, that’d be great. And finally, the next book you plan to dive into.

Zibby (33:09):
The next book I plan to dive into, what am I reading this weekend? The next book I’m going to dive into is Jason Mott’s, Hell of a Book.

Katie (33:23):
Okay, all right, fantastic. I’m putting all of these into the show notes, I’m so excited. We have about six weeks of summer left, we’re gonna you know, stock our beach bags with all these great reads. Zibby, thank you so much for coming on the show today. How can everyone keep following you, your work, learn when the memoir drops, you know, see what you’re up to? 

Zibby (33:43):
The best way is through Instagram @zibbyowens. I’m on it way too much [both laugh]. I’m always updating it and I try to be you know, good about communicating, and then I have my website zibbyowens.com which hopefully by the time this comes out will finally have been updated a little bit. [laughs]

Katie (34:03):
I love it. Zibby, thank you so much for being with us today. 

Zibby (34:07):
Thank you so much for having me, it’s such an honor.

Katie (34:09):
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women over 50 who are aging without apology. Join me next week when I sit down with Angie Kim, author of the courtroom drama Miracle Creek. To hear about her pivot from law to best-selling author. 

Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties. 

Season Four
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A Love Letter to Parents + New Americans with Author Angie Kim
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