Better the Next Day. On Baking, Grief and Mother Loss with Memoirist Rachel Levy Lesser
Show Snapshot:
Is there a woman alive who hasn't thought deeply about her relationship with her mother? Today’s guest, the author, and essayist Rachel Levey Lesser explores motherhood from every angle, as a daughter coming of age, a parent to teens, and through the lens of the devastating early death of her mother. Her most recent book Life's Accessories: A Memoir (and Fashion Guide) explores the totemic power of objects to conjure memory and help us understand life in all its beauty, joy, sorrow, heartache, and hilarious absurdity. Bonus, we talk pandemic baking and Rachel’s buzzy new viral baking show garnering praise from the New York Times.
In This Episode We Cover:
1. How Rachel’s grief journaling after her mother’s death led to a writing career.
2. Why everyone has to deal with grief on their own terms (but why having friends who’ve lived through loss helps).
3. How everyday objects can conjure memory and fuel happiness.
4. Mothers, daughters, and their bonds (and wildly different fashion sensibilities).
5. How losing a mother can affect the way you mother your own children.
6. Why “feeling all the feels” is step one in healing.
7. Rachel’s writing projects including a Facebook baking show featuring cookbook authors, and her contributions to book influencer Zibby Owens’ collection “Moms Don’t Have Time to: A Quarantine Anthology.”
Quotable:
I just want to be alive. Maybe that sounds weird, but I think that's the perspective. I appreciate every single birthday. I appreciate every single year.
When you're in the thick of immediate loss, you're just not yourself. You're handicapped in a way; you can't be thinking straight. You have to let yourself feel all the feels. You can't put them away.
More Resources:
Rachel’s Books:
Life's Accessories: A Memoir (and Fashion Guide)
Rachel has essays in this anthology:
Moms Don't Have Time to: A Quarantine Anthology
More book resources:
Follow Rachel:
Rachel’s website
Rachel on Instagram
Rachel on Facebook
Rachel’s baking show Blaze Baking with Rach
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty: 0:06
Welcome to "A Certain Age," a show for women on life after 50, who are unafraid to age out loud. I'm your host, Katie Fogarty . While I don't have any hard evidence or scientific stats to back this up, I suspect there isn't a woman alive who hasn't thought deeply about her relationship with her mother. Our mothers and the bonds we have with them, the good and the bad, profoundly shaped the women we grow into. My guest today is the author and essayist Rachel Levy Lesser, who writes about motherhood from every angle; as a daughter coming of age, as a mother raising teens, and about the devastating death of her mother when she was a young adult. Rachel is the author of four books and countless essays. Her most recent book is "Life's Accessories: A Memoir (and Fashion Guide)" about the totemic power of objects to conjure memory and help us understand life and all of its beauty, joy, sorrow, heartache, and hilarious absurdity. Welcome, Rachel.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 1:02
Thank you, Katie. Thank you for that lovely intro.
Katie Fogarty: 1:05
I'm so excited to have you as a guest. Rachel and I actually go way back, we're connected through my cousin, Shane. But you're on today to talk about your writing. You lost your mother as a young adult, and you've been writing about loss, grief and really the beauty of life and all of it's magical and mundane moments, ever since. Can you walk us through how you came to explore grief and life through writing?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 1:29
Yes. It's funny that you mentioned Shane, just because I was thinking about her a little bit this weekend. As I told you, I was in touch with her recently and she had just read my book, "Life's Accessories." There is an essay slash chapter in there on my time in grad school, when I was at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and I wasn't sleeping at all. The chapter is called , "Fleece Socks Will Keep You Warm at the University of Michigan in Insomnia," instead of in Ann Arbor . And that's where I met Shane. She had actually lost her father when she was in college. At that point, my mother was very sick when I was in grad school, and I was coming to terms with the fact that she was going to die. And I remember looking at Shane as this high-functioning, young, happy adult, and saying to myself, "Well she's okay, so I think I'm gonna be okay." So, I don't know, that just kind of came up when you mentioned her name and I...
Katie Fogarty: 2:21
I love that.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 2:21
...I think that's a part of everyone dealing with their own grief. I remember also at that time when it was in my twenties, when I was coming to terms with this and you know, my mother and I were very close, she was my person, as we say. A friend of mine was just telling me that her mother who passed away was her best friend and her husband was her second best friend. [Katie laughs] I have to say, that's kind of how we used to joke in my family as well. So, I think that everyone has to come to their own grief, on their own terms. So, I could look at a friend like Shane and say, "Oh, look, she's doing okay," but I couldn't just make myself be okay. So, that was kind of a long intro to answer this question...
Katie Fogarty: 3:01
No, I love it.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 3:01
...but I would say my sort of journey with grief came about when I was in my twenties and dealing with how sick my mom was getting, and that I was going to lose her. At the time I was in grad school and then soon after that, I worked in marketing and PR, which was kind of what I did throughout my career in my twenties. But after she died, when I just turned 30, I started writing in a journal , which was what a therapist suggested that I do to kind of get all my thoughts and feelings out on paper. In the journal, it turned out, I started to write down a lot of memories of my mom from as far back as I can remember. And the journal sort of became an outline for my first book, which was called "Shopping For Love." It was about all the time that I've spent together with my mom, her mom, and her sister shopping together. So, that was sort of how I started writing about grief.
Katie Fogarty: 3:56
I love that book, Rachel. I remember you share a very funny story about buying your first grown-up dress with your mother, right. You're holding up this like silky, sexy, slip dress and your mom looks at it and says, "That looks like a slip." And that made me laugh because that was like, the point, right?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 4:12
Yeah, and I said, "Well, it's called a slip dress." [Katie laughs] That was a big moment. I think I was in college and it was , you know, your first real, sort of grown-up dress, something that your mother is buying for you that she didn't ever think she would buy for herself. Which, by the way, as a mother of a teenage girl right now, the styles have definitely changed. My daughter's only 15, but she's worn dresses way skimpier than that. I have to say, it's kind of the style now.
Katie Fogarty: 4:38
I have a 20-year-old daughter and I know exactly what you're talking about. I think it's kind of in eighth grade when they hit bar mitzvah season; and all of a sudden they're in really short dresses and really high heels. We used to have a rule of thumb that I got from my neighbor, which said: if the dress is short , the heels are flat. And if the dress is long, the heels can be high. We used that as an operating principle for longer than my daughter would have liked.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 5:06
I have to say, my daughter is pretty good. We always approve it. But it is funny how the styles do change.
Katie Fogarty: 5:13
So, what item or accessory always makes you think of your mother?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 5:17
That's such a good question. There are so many. I wrote about them in "Life's Accessories." In the book, t here a re 14 essays and in each essay there is an accessory that I use to sort of, tell a particular story. For example, there's the Elsa Peretti heart necklace that I write about, to talk about how my college boyfriend completely dumped me. There's a scarf that I write about, called the Happy Scarf from Burberry. It actually is a Happy Scarf, that's what they call it. I would say that is the accessory that probably makes me think of my mom the most because she bought it for me in November 2003. She died a few months later and I said in the book that it would be our last day shopping together. I didn't know that then, or maybe I did, but I chose not to. So, when she bought me the scarf, I sort of knew that there was a reason she was buying it for me. I initially thought I wouldn't wear it because I thought it would make me sad, but it turns out, like the name of it, that it definitely makes me happy. I mean, I have so many other sort of, heirloom accessories, from her that were her mother's that are mine, pieces of jewelry and things like that. But I would definitely say that that scarf reminds me of her in so many different ways.
Katie Fogarty: 6:29
Oh my gosh. I absolutely love that. I feel a little lump in my throat thinking about the scarf.
: 6:34
What do you think, is there a particular item that your kids would feel that kind of connection to?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 6:46
Yeah, I think so. I mean, scarves are definitely my thing. You know, now that we're all at home all the time, I'm working from home and the kids are home certain days from school, they always see me working in a scarf inside, on my laptop. It's warm in my house, but I always have a scarf on. In the book I write about how there was a particular scarf from Anthropology that I suspect may have launched my writing career. [Katie laughs]. I think when they see scarves, they think of me. Also, probably dangly earrings. We're home all the time, I'm wearing leggings and, you know, long sweaters, and workout clothes. But on a lot of days, I try to wear some dangly earrings. It just makes me feel, kind of put together and like a person, I guess.
Katie Fogarty: 7:29
Makes you feel like you. I have that too. And by the way, I have a scarf thing too. I don't know if this is, maybe we live in chilly homes , but I love scarves also.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 7:39
I love them.
Katie Fogarty: 7:40
I'm curious, because your mother died, you know how many years ago now?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 7:45
She died in 2004. So, almost...
Katie Fogarty: 7:49
And where were you at that phase of your life, you were in grad school? Were you married yet?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 7:53
I graduated from grad school in 2003. So, I had just moved, actually. To a town right near where I had grown up. So, I would definitely say, you know, it's funny when you look back on the choices you make in your life. I met my husband living in New York city, we went to grad school together in Michigan. We kind of knew we didn't want to go back to New York City, we kind of were ready though . We wanted to have kids and I actually graduated from grad school pregnant , which is another story. So, we moved to be closer to my parents. We ended up getting jobs in those areas, but it really was a conscious decision because I wanted to be with my mom for what little time I had with her. And it was just a period of months. I actually remember after she died, saying to my husband, "You know, well now I'll go anywhere. I'll go back to New York, I'll do whatever." It turns out we ended up kind of loving where we lived, for all the reasons when I was growing up that I thought I wouldn't like it. I thought, "Oh, it's so boring and there's nothing to do here in the burbs ." But it's really great, we met a lot of great people.
Katie Fogarty: 8:58
Did your mother get a chance to meet your son before she died?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 9:04
She did. He was the first gr- and that's another part of why I think that I graduated from business school pregnant; because I knew how sick my mom was and I wanted her to meet a grandchild , which she did. So yes , she knew him for a few months and he was named for her father and she loved that. You know, we, I spent a lot of time with her and with the baby. I do think though, you know, looking back with hindsight being 20/20, there was a part of her that didn't get as close to my baby as she maybe would have , if she hadn't been sick. I think first, part of her was just really sick and not feeling well , although she never really led on and never complained, but she was just tired a lot and she didn't have the strength or energy to play with him or hold him like I thought she would have. She was young, she was in her fifties. Then another part, I think, that I realized later on was that I don't think she could let herself go there to a place of snuggling with him, loving him, and hugging him, which she did to an extent. But as I look back, I often saw a sort of self-imposed attachment sometimes, because I think it was too hard for her to imagine the life he would have without her. I really think that's true and I think about that a lot now. With both my kids. I mean, she knew my son, she knew of him, but she didn't know of my daughter, my brother's son and, you know, so many things. There's so many things that happen in this world, in politics, in the news, and with my friends that I think, "What would my mom think of that?" And there's just so much, she doesn't know.
Katie Fogarty: 10:52
Has becoming a mother yourself affected your relationship to this loss and grief? Do you find that it, has it ebbed and flowed, has it changed shape at all?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 11:04
Yeah, definitely. I mean , I've sort of gotten involved in the motherless daughter community , and the motherless mother community, believe it or not. Hope Edelman, who has written a lot about motherless daughters, I actually contributed an essay to one of her anthologies about the topic. I think not having a mother affects so much of the way that I parent. In some ways, I've become the mother and the grandmother. My kids have a great...
Katie Fogarty: 11:40
[laughs] You sound very busy, very busy.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 11:40
My kids have a great, wonderful grandmother in my mother-in-law, and they have great aunts and lots of great figures in their life. But I often think about how I do things that my mother would have done with them , that are more grandmotherly motherly, in some respects. Like special occasions and spoiling them a little bit in a way I wouldn't do. So, sometimes I'm like, wait, am I being the mom or my being the grandma? I'm like a young grandmother, I guess.
Katie Fogarty: 12:04
I think that's so lovely and fun because I remember bringing my own daughter home, who is now 20 , as I said, and I've got a 17 year old and 13 year old. At one point I was so envious of my mother because she had like all the enjoyment and I feel like I had all the sleepless nights. So yeah, it's nice that you've incorporated that kind of, you know, fun grandmother spirit to your parenting.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 12:29
Yeah, I have. It's sometimes hard to figure out who I'm being.
Katie Fogarty: 12:33
I feel like it's hard to figure out who we're being, so often. And I feel like we're also in a very strange season right now where we're all kind of navigating loss and grief, you know, in some micro ways, but in some massive ways. We had a terrible COVID death milestone this week, there's just a lot of grief and suffering. And for people who are experiencing this kind of fresh loss or for people who may not be, but want to support those who are: do you have anything that you can excavate from your own experience to share that might be helpful, or something that doesn't help at all that you want to warn people off from?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 13:15
Yeah, it's funny. I have a good friend who I write about in the book named Melanie, that's her real name. We met as like young mothers through like a baby club or brunch at someone's house a million years ago. A little aside of that, everybody who came to the brunch was told, "Don't bring anything." But I can never not bring something. So I showed up with a chocolate babka and I was the only one that brought something. Melanie said, "Who is the chick with the chocolate babka." [Katie laughs] Then we became fast friends. And as it turns out, she was a social worker at Gilda's Club, which is a national cancer support community, started and named in memory of Gilda Radner. It was started by her therapist, Joanna Bull and her husband, Gene Wilder. So, I started to get involved in Gilda's Club a lot, and I often taught writing workshops there for people dealing with grief. The reason I'm telling you all this is because this is sort of some of the grief advice that I've picked up on along the way in sort of talking to people at Gilda's Club and in some of the writing workshops; some of just, the day to day talking to people that I know who've lost people. I mean, I'm sort of the person, my husband sort of jokes about it, even though it's not funny. But just to say, if somebody loses a mother, they come to me and I know what to tell them, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for them that I could offer advice. I think this is so cliche, but it's so true that time really can be your friend. I mean, I think that when you're in the thick of the immediate loss, you're just not yourself. You're handicapped in a way, you know, you can't be thinking straight. You just kind of, I would say, you have to let yourself feel all the feels, right? You can't put them away. At the same time though, you obviously do have to go about your life. For me, right after I lost my mom, it's funny when I look back on it because it was one of the busiest times in my life; I had a newborn, I had a job, I moved to a new town, I was meeting people, and I was really trying to help with my father and just all the dynamics of a new family, the way it happens when a central figure in it dies. So I think, you do have to feel the feels, you have to let it kind of wash through you. But at the same time, you have to get on with your life. You have to get up, you have to shower, ,you have to take care of your kids or go to your job. There's some people who are so stunted in their grief that they can't. I can understand that, but I also think it's so important to just get up, put one foot in front of the other. There will be one day where you will be laughing about something, and it will be a real laugh, or you will be smiling about something and it'll, be a real smile and that will feel good. So, I think the advice is kind of; go through the motions and do what you have to do in day-to-day but allow yourself to think, feel, and remember, that's kind of, you know, step one. Over time you will get there, but you can't just put all those feelings away because they'll come back up faster and that could stunt you later on, I think.
Katie Fogarty: 16:27
That is such fantastic advice, honestly. Because as it was coming out of your mouth, I was thinking to myself, this is life advice for even just grappling with the pandemic. You know, I mean, on Monday I literally had to pick myself up out of bed and like get my rear in gear to do all the things that I needed to do with this overwhelming client load. And I really just didn't want to.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 16:50
Definitely.
Katie Fogarty: 16:50
You know, at times it was like, I don't want to do these things. And I literally had to give myself a talking to like, "Get up, do the things, move through that to-do list.Your malaise from the weather and the pandemic cannot stop you from what needs to get done. You need to help the clients that have contracted with you." You know? And so I think that's such great advice for moving through like, any kind of challenge and particularly the one we're in right now, because it's sort of easy to sit and say, "I just want to eat banana bread and like stay in bed and not, and not deal. " So, I love that.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 17:27
I totally agree. I mean, I feel like I'm always running in a million different directions, whether physically or in my head. Sometimes I feel so overwhelmed by all the stuff I have to do that I just say, "You know what, do the first thing, and then the second thing, and then the third thing." And obviously distractions happen and things change, but you just kinda gotta, you gotta do it. No one else is gonna do it for you.
Katie Fogarty: 17:50
I love this, I absolutely love this. Just get in action. And we have to remind ourselves that when things feel overwhelming, you know, to ask for help and be with people that love you and support you and that are maybe...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 17:59
Yeah and to prioritize too. Especially now, not to get too off topic, but with like kids being home so much. My daughter is pretty much home every day , doing school from home, my son is every other day. So, I have to remind myself when they come downstairs or lunch or whatever, to like, try to really enjoy that time because I know it's not going to be around forever.
Katie Fogarty: 18:21
Yeah , exactly. The passage of time. No, I completely relate to that. But speaking of like time and kids, this is not off topic at all, this is what we're living through. I do want to just sort of shift gears for a minute and talk about , um, a project that you were recently involved with. Zibby Owens of the podcast "Moms Don't Have Time to Read," who is a wonderful , sort of, booster of books, reading, literacy and supporter of women writers and authors in general. I know that you were involved with that project and I would love if you could tell our listeners a little bit more about it.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 18:53
Sure. Yeah, Zibby is great and she's such a cheerleader for authors and writers. The name of the book is called "Moms Don't Have Time To: A Quarantine Anthology." Then she's done all these wonderful virtual events to promote the book. But of course, in the process, she's promoting all the other authors that are in the book, which is very her. So, I have two essays in the book. One is called "Wait, Did I Kill My Book Club" which is under the heading of "Moms Don't Have Time to Read."
Katie Fogarty: 19:19
[laughs] That absolutely cracked me up, I love it. And did you kill your book club?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 19:30
Yes, some say I murdered my book club. [Katie laughs] So, I was in a book clubs for a number of years and it was with some people I knew before, some people I didn't. It was a great group, we read a lot. But it was getting to the point where it felt like homework back in high school that I didn't want to do. I had real work to do and other books that I wanted to read that weren't being assigned, that someone else didn't assign to me. And I definitely am like a people pleaser and I want everyone to be happy all the time. And I just emailed the book group and said, you know, "I'm out." But I didn't even really give an explanation, it was very non-me. And then everybody just quit and nobody ever went to it again. [Katie laughs] So, I have a little guilt on that. The other essay I wrote was called , "Breaking Up With My Kids," about how, as a mom of teenagers, I sometimes need to emotionally break up with my kids in my head. They don't even know that I'm doing this, but , you know, I use an example, this was pre-pandemic. I went to watch my son in his high school basketball game and he pretty much sat on the bench the whole time. And when I looked at him, it was more painful for me than it probably was for him, to see the disappointment. So, I just had to kind of disassociate myself from him. I do that every once in a while, I just kind of, let the kids go through their own stuff and then they come back and they have to feel the feels themselves, right. So, those were what my essays were in the book. There were like, I think, 50 or 60 other essays in the book, all under the categories of "Moms Don't Have Time To." It was: Moms Don't Have Time to Read, Moms Don't Have Time to Exercise, Moms Don't Have Time to Eat, Moms Don't Have Time to Breathe, Moms Don't Have Time to Have Sex. I think I covered all of them, [Katie lughs] but they were essays from authors of all different kinds. It was a lot of women's essays, but there were also some men in there. It was really fun to contribute to it and it was also really fun to read the essays of other authors, some I know, some I obviously don't know. It was interesting to see, you know, maybe somebody who writes historical fiction, write this very deep, meaningful essay. Or somebody who usually writes , I don't know, romance or something, write like a very funny essay. So, I love anthologies and Zibby was so great about putting it all together, editing it, and getting it out in the world, I think at a perfect time when we're also re- examining the way we live our lives in the midst of this year long quarantine, so to speak.
Katie Fogarty: 21:59
I thought it was absolutely fabulous. I haven't made it through all the essays. I read your two, and I read the one from Karen Dukess, who had been on my show in season one. Karen published her first novel when she was 56, which was "The Last Book Party." I'm going to link to both the "Moms Don't Have Time To: A Quarantine Anthology" and of course, all of your books in the show notes, but it's a wonderful book.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 22:26
It's a great book. You know, I'm always reading different books. I'm in the middle of reading a novel, but last night I just popped open Zibby's book and I read an essay by Liz Astrof, who is a comedy writer in LA who wrote , "Moms Don't Have Time to Cry," about how she sort of had a cry bottled up in her for many days and she just let it out. And I practically cried reading it. It was great.
Katie Fogarty: 22:47
I have to read that. I feel like I definitely found time to cry during the pandemic. I mean, there were times when I had to put myself to bed at 7:30 at night and just like rage text my girlfriends from high school and like weep about the shit show that was unfolding in my home. It was rough back in March and April and it was, and then...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 23:09
You have to let that out. I mean, I actually wrote an essay about this, of course. My whole life is out there for the world to see, I guess, much to my husband's chagrin. [Katie laughs] No, he's a good sport. But I've been doing the Zoom call every week, every Thursday night with my college friends. There's like seven or eight of us, we live all over the country and we're very close. We used to call it the happy hour but sometimes we call it the sad hour, because sometimes we're just like bitching and moaning and sometimes we're laughing. It's just always really good to connect. I don't make it every single week and not everybody does, but it's always a good time.
Katie Fogarty: 23:43
Your friends are a lifeline during this. And as much as we're all sick of Zoom, it's really been a lifesaver to be able to see people's faces. We've celebrated, you know, holidays, birthday parties, my sister's 50th, all happened over technology. I can't wait until that changes, you know, it beats the alternative. The book is wonderful and it's a terrific snapshot of this very weird time, and I think that it's so enjoyable and it's gonna be so deeply relevant for a while . You know, our kids can look at it and be like, "Wow, that was what was happening during that absolutely insane, insane year." So, the pandemic has been hideous, you know, on so many levels, but it's also generated creative projects, like the one you just talked about this quarantine. But I know you have many creative hats going on, Rachel. I know you're involved with something new that you've been cooking up, which is literally about cooking. And I want you to tell us more about "A Mighty Blaze."
Rachel Levy Lesser: 24:39
Yeah. So, this was probably in the early fall. Maybe I've been doing it, I dunno , since October. I started working with this organization called A Mighty Blaze, which was just started last March, in the very beginning of the pandemic. It was started by a New York times bestselling authors, Jenna Blum and Caroline Leavitt . They came together when the world shut down because they are authors and they have so many author friends, and they're such book lovers and book fans that they said, we have to do something to help these authors whose book tours have all been canceled by COVID. So, they got together a group of a lot of their creative type friends and colleagues, and they all came together to start this organization called A Mighty Blaze. I joined, like I said, a few months into it. What we do is we promote , it's all volunteer based, and we promote all authors through all different channels. We run weekly programming where people interview authors. There's a "Mighty Mystery Show" on the topic of mysteries. There's a show by a guy called "The Thoughtful Bro", and that's sort of, self-explanatory [Katie laughs], he's thoughtful, but he's bro-ish. We have a show called "Authors Love Bookstores," where two of the blazers as we call them interview an author and his or her favorite independent bookstore, and they interview the bookstore owner. We have "Friday Frontliners" where we interview some celebrities. We have somebody who hosts a poet show. I know I'm going on and on...
Katie Fogarty: 26:19
No I love this, I have to tune into the one about...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 26:19
I know there's more I'm not getting to, but we also have some new stuff coming up. I started a show called "Blaze Baking With Rage." I always say, I'm the rage. It sort of started out when I started working with the team. They said, "Oh, you should have your own show. What do you like to do?" And I said that I like to bake. It sort of happened organically because in the beginning of the pandemic, before I was officially working with A Mighty Blaze, I was doing these Zoom baking classes for friends and family, because remember, in March and April, nobody left their house. I have become a little famous in my town for my chocolate chip cookies that I've made and other recipes. So, I started teaching people on Zoom and it grew and grew, and people were like, "What are we going to make next week? What are we going to make next week?" So, this sort of homegrown show that I started turned into a show to promote cookbook authors. So, for the first episode we had on Cheryl Day , the author of the "Back in the Day" bakery cookbooks , who runs a fabulous bakery in Savannah, Georgia, and we made these cookies that I love. Actually this Saturday, February, or whenever, I'm not sure exactly when this is going to air, but on February 27th, we're going to be , having on Allysa Torey, who's the founder of Magnolia Bakery. We're going to make these amazing marshmallow chocolate brownies. You were talking about multitasking right before I got on this interview with you, I was just practicing making a pie in my kitchen, which is baking in the oven right now. If you could see me now, I have like, flour all over me.
Katie Fogarty: 27:49
I'm so jealous. What kind of pie?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 27:51
...who wrote a cookbook? It's actually, it's a chess pie, which is sort of like a vanilla custardy, kind of pie. So yeah, it's been really fun. I mean, I feel like it's great to help out all these other authors and to get to know them and to bake, which I love to do. I feel like it's giving our viewers confidence in their baking skills. It's giving them something to do on a cold, Saturday afternoon, or hopefully in the spring, a warm Saturday afternoon. We usually do it the last Saturday of every month schedules, you know, dependent. So, that's been, that's been a really fun creative outlet and it makes me feel good to give back to so many different authors because so many creative types and authors have been so generous with me over the years. People like yourself.
Katie Fogarty: 28:34
I absolutely love that. We've been doing a lot of baking and I keep joking about banana bread because that's like, kind of my specialty, that's all that I do. But my daughter, who is gluten-free, has used the quarantine to really do a ton of gluten-free baking. Have you done any of that on these shows or are you a flour person?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 28:56
Yeah so my daughter was gluten-free for a period of time. We sort of say she's gluten light now, and I've done that too.
Katie Fogarty: 29:02
It's hard though becuase it's different.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 29:02
It is hard, but with these marshmallow Oreo brownies, for example, which sound like, chock-full of gluten, there actually are gluten-free Oreos that you can now purchase. I think Oreo, their actual real Oreo brand, gluten-free Oreos, they also have them at Trader Joe's. I mean, I think sometimes with gluten-free flour, just because I have it, I think Bob's Red Mill, I sound like a commercial right now for gluten-free products [both laugh], Bob's Red Mill one-to-one flour is good. So, there's lots of ways. I mean, my husband's allergic to certain nuts, so there's definitely, I'm all for baking substitutes. People have a lot of sensitivities and allergies these or sometimes people just want to be a little bit healthier with their choices. So yeah, totally up for gluten-free baking.
Katie Fogarty: 29:47
I'm going to need to get some of those recipes that I can link to in the shownotes as well, because this show , people are listening to it right now on Monday, I believe it's the 1st of March. So , your baking show will have already aired.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 29:59
But you know, all the shows, my shows, and all of the other blazers, all their shows live forever on A Mighty Blaze YouTube channel. So, it's fun to go back and revisit and, you know, meet these cookbook authors and all different kinds of authors.
Katie Fogarty: 30:15
That's perfect. So, I'm going to put that in the shownotes too, because we all need some more inspiration. So what's the favorite thing you've made to date?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 30:23
The favorite thing I've made...
Katie Fogarty: 30:25
With "A Mighty Blaze."
Rachel Levy Lesser: 30:28
I gotta say these, marshmallow Oreo brownies are amazing. They're so good.
Katie Fogarty: 30:33
All r ight, d one.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 30:34
Allysa Torey, who's the founder of Magnolia Bakery said very correctly to me on the phone one day when we were picking a recipe, she said, "The thing about these brownies and most brownies is that they taste better the next day." And that's definitely true. So, you bake them, you let them sit, you eat them, they're good. And the next day they're even better.
Katie Fogarty: 30:54
Okay, your kids are like, better behaved than mine because there's no next day brownies in my house. [laughs]
Rachel Levy Lesser: 30:58
Well, I mean, my kids, they don't realize how lucky they are, but there's always something baking in my kitchen. I can't say there's always something cooking in my kitchen.
Katie Fogarty: 31:05
[laughs] Priorities.
: 31:05
It was my birthday last month my husband said, "What should we do for your birthday dinner? I'll cook a really good dinner." I was like, "Honestly, my perfect dinner is like a glass of wine, a salad, and like five cupcakes." [Katie laughs] You know, so, I definitely have a sweet tooth, I know I do. I try to eat healthy and I do eat healthy, but not with the sweet tooth .
Katie Fogarty: 31:29
Yeah, of course, listen. So, you cued this up, you said you just had a birthday. How old are you Rachel?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 31:35
Oh, I did cue this up. So, I just turned 47. Crazy to me .
Katie Fogarty: 31:42
A baby! I know. Well, first of all, this is like exciting and this is historic, because you are officially the youngest guest that we have had on the show. So what, you know, you're...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 31:54
And I love to be the youngest.
Katie Fogarty: 31:54
Yeah, so you're a couple of years out from joining the 50 club, which is, you know, a fantastic yet underrated club. And I would love to just, before we wrap, hear a little bit more about what's your take on aging and has your writing changed as you've aged and what do you think about 50? Tell us.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 32:14
Well, I definitely, it's funny that I'm the youngest, because I'm the youngest person in my family. So, I always kind of like to be the youngest. I mean, in terms of, you know, the family that I grew up in and cousins and all that. So, I think about aging a lot. I think about it because my mother was diagnosed with cancer when she was 51 and she died when she was 57. So, you know, at the time when all this was happening, I was in my twenties and it was horrible and I felt that she was young, but I was also kind of like, "Yeah, but she's in her fifties and her kids got married." But now that I'm approaching that age, I realize how young she really was. Right. And I still keep in touch with a lot of her friends and they miss her so much. And I could imagine, God forbid, now losing a friend that age. So, you know , when I think of getting older and approaching 50 and 51 and all that, which was a big year for my mom, obviously, I just want to be alive. I know that sounds kind of crude maybe, and maybe funny, but it's true. I mean, my friends and I, we talk about stuff and we joke about when we retire, when we have grandkids and in the back of my mind, I don't often say it out loud, but that's the truth. I just want to be alive. Maybe that sounds weird, but I think that's the perspective. As I approach these ages, I appreciate every single birthday. I appreciate every single year. I think about my mom at every birthday and I think remember her. What was she like when she was 47? What was she like when she was 48? So, it's very much attached to that way. I'm not scared of getting older, I want to get older. It's like the greatest gift, right? To have a birthday every single year. And as far as like aging, in terms of like, how we look, I'm pretty chill about that. I mean, I look so much like my mother and as I get older, I look more and more like her. I look in the mirror every morning and I just see her and I'm interested in the shape, in what my face is turning into. No judgment on people who are changing things of their faces, I know there's a lot of popular things to do. I'm just really not interested in that because I'm just kinda curious to see what my face is gonna look like. Warts, wrinkles and all.
Katie Fogarty: 34:37
Yeah oh my gosh. I so love that, I so love that. I found myself sort of nodding and again, like feeling a little a lump in my throat because part of my spirit with this podcast is I do believe we should be able to age out loud, but I agree with you that it's a gift. I lost two very good friend in high school. My best friend died after a four year battle of cancer, she was a sophomore in college when she died. I had another friend who was killed in a car accident, accidentally. And you know, we still miss them. My friends and I are still close and, and their absence is felt, and I agree with you. It's like, I feel like every birthday is a gift and not one you know, you should be taking for granted. So, I think when you do lose people in your life, especially when they're young and it shouldn't be their time, not that there's any assigned time, but it does make you grateful. I'm grateful to be aging, you know.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 35:33
And by the way, I'm not like a perfect angel or anything. Trust me, I sweat the small stuff [Katie laughs] and I get annoyed at the little things, I yell at my kids, and whatever I have my moments. But then at the same time I do really think I'm lucky to be here, I do. And I think what my mother would do to be here, you know, what she's missing out on and other people too, who I know who experienced a loss and other people I lost. You know, we can't live every day being like, "I'm so lucky. This is amazing. Enjoy every minute." But I think unfortunately I have that perspective and as we age, many more people have that perspective too. That's part of grieving, I think, is gaining the perspective. A lot of people gain it, some people don't. But it's sort of the wisdom that comes with the loss and with the age. And I think that's really important to hold onto and to remember.
Katie Fogarty: 36:29
I love that and I so agree. Thank you so much for sharing that Rachel. One of my favorite recording artists is Warren Zevon. He's got a saying, "Enjoy every sandwich" and that's, you know, you have to...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 36:41
I love that.
: 36:41
Exactly. It's like, it doesn't have to be rainbows and unicorns to feel, you know, just appreciate the things that you enjoy. So, thank you for...
Rachel Levy Lesser: 36:51
I think that's a sign of what's going on in the world with the pandemic. It's very mundane, sort of. It's like, time to make the donuts, Groundhog day, all that stuff. But just try to enjoy it if you can, count your blessings.
Katie Fogarty: 37:03
Love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. So, I'm going to link to all your books in the shownotes, because you talk about the blessings, you talk about, sort of, the magic in just everyday life. And you talk about navigating all of this; motherhood, being a daughter, coming of age, navigating loss. Bu , before we wrap up, I wanted to ask if there's just, I always ask every guest, is there one last thing you want to share with our listeners? Is there something that's kind of like lighting you up? A product or a tool that you want to pass along before we end?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 37:34
Well, this is kind of funny for a product or a tool. I guess it's kind of lighting me up, but it's just like, I've never used it so much in my entire life. It sounds very 1950s housewife, which I don't even think I'm allowed to say that word anymore. [Katie laughs] But I say it ironically I guess, I don't know if I'm even saying that. Right, but it's the Kitchen Aid electric mixer that I got, I think when I was married, over 20 years ago.
Katie Fogarty: 38:03
Oh my god, I love it!
Rachel Levy Lesser: 38:03
It's like one of those things, I think when I got it when I got married, when I was all of 25, I was like, "What am I going to do with this giant thing that is so heavy? I don't even understand, do I plug it in? How does it work?" And now it's like a part of what I'm doing creatively. So, I highly recommend that as an investment to people. If they don't already have one.
Katie Fogarty: 38:20
That is hilarious. I love it. This is like, this is up there. My other favorite recommendation from a guest was Nancy Davis Kho, who is the author of "The Thank You Project ," which is a wonderful book on gratitude. Her product she wanted to share with us all, was her love of kaftans and how she was embracing wearing them during quarantine. So, I'm like picturing you in a kaftan with your mixer, making these insane brownies, and I want to come right over.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 38:55
It's very retro.
Katie Fogarty: 38:56
I love it . I love it. I love it. All right, Rachel, thank you so much for being here today. Where can people keep following you and your work?
Rachel Levy Lesser: 39:02
Sure. Well, you can go to my website, which is rachellevylesser.com. I'm also on Facebook at Rachel Levy Lesser on Instagram @rachellevylesser, I'm on Twitter @rachlevylesser. I'm not there as much as I should be, I'm trying to get there more. That's where people can follow me and see my latest work, and also check out some pretty good looking baked goods.
Katie Fogarty: 39:26
I love it. All right. Thank you so much for being with us today, Rachel.
Rachel Levy Lesser: 39:29
Thanks Katie. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Katie Fogarty: 39:32
This wraps a certain age, a show for women over 50, who are aging without apology. If you enjoyed the show, please head to Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to rate and review the show and come keep me company over on Instagram, @acertainagepod. Do not make me hang out there alone. I would love your company and your comments. Join me next week as I sit down with certified divorce coach, Kate Anthony creator of the wildly popular podcast and blog The Divorce Survival Guide. See you next time. And until then age boldly, beauties.