Reclaiming Identity as We Age, Motherhood, Desire, and the Joy of Loving Something—Anything—Like Your Life Depends on It with Author Tabitha Carvan
Show Snapshot:
Have you ever subsumed yourself so completely in something external—motherhood, career, a relationship that you lost your sense of self? Meet Tabitha Carvan, author of This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch: The Joy of Loving Something—Anything—Like Your Life Depends On It. Tabitha was a mother of young children when she fell hard, from afar for the actor Benedict Cumberbatch. Slowly she realized that her preoccupation with the actor was not about Cumberbatch; it was about feeling passionate about something that restored her sense of self. We get into how aging can erase or rebuild our identities, motherhood, the taboo of embracing desire, and her stunning and hilarious debut book. And if you're thinking, "Benedict Cumber-who?', time to hit Google to see what all the fuss is about. ;-)
In This Episode We Cover:
The magnetic allure of Benedict Cumberbatch.
How Tabitha realized her obsession with Cumberbatch was more than about the actor—it was about rediscovering passions and reconnecting with a sense of self.
The early days of motherhood, loss of identity, and subsuming one’s sense of self to motherhood.
The taboo of desire, shame, and the oppressive culture of endless optimization.
The cult of Cumberbatch, Harry Styles, and the secret (and massive) world of fandom and fan fiction.
How a gendered culture lens often depicts women’s passions as ridiculous or silly.
Permission to be interested in your own life, and ideas to rediscover personal passions, or realize new ones.
Why getting to midlife—can make you feel intact.
Quotable:
"This is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch" is a book about rediscovering your passions, no matter what they are and no matter what age you are, without having to feel like you have to justify them.
One of the women in the book uses the term "intact," and that becoming a Benedict Cumberbatch fan made her feel like a more intact person... And I love that expression because I think that as women, in middle age, we are mothers and we are professionals or employees, and we are daughters and sisters, and neighbors, and wives... We are split into all these different roles, but none of them represent who we are. None of them encompass how we actually feel on the inside.
More Resources:
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Tabitha’s Book:
Transcript:
Katie Fogarty [0:30]:
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. When you think about the last person, celebrity or otherwise, that you were completely, madly, toe-curlingly obsessed with, think carefully. Were you ripping their images out of Teen Beat magazine and taping them to your bedroom walls? Or were you Googling them, say, last week?
I’m joined today by the marvelous writer Tabitha Carvan. Tabitha was a new mom, at home with two young children in Australia when she fell for the British actor, Benedict Cumberbatch. You know the guy, odd name, kind of an alien face, famous for The Avengers movies and Dr. Strange, made the BBC show Sherlock so sexy that it became one of the most streamed shows in the world. The force of her fixation took everyone, especially Tabitha herself, by surprise. But what she slowly realized was that her preoccupation was not entirely about Benedict Cumberbatch at all--even with those cheekbones, even with those thighs. It was about finally feeling passionate about something again, at a point in her life when she had lost touch with her sense of self. She joins me today to talk about passion and aging, motherhood, and identity, the taboo of embracing desire, and of course, her stunning and hilarious debut book entitled, This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch. Welcome, Tabitha.
Tabitha Carvan [1:55]:
Hello.
Katie [1:56]:
I’m so excited to dive in and talk to you about this marvelous book. I have been cackling in bed. It’s the kind of book my husband hates when I read, because I’m shaking the covers and not for reasons that he would want. So, it’s my pleasure to sit down with you. You’re my very first guest from Australia which is history, at least for me, and I’m really thrilled that you’re here. Before we dive into books and Benedict, can you share where in Australia you’re joining us from? And maybe what time is it there? And what’s going on with your season?
Tabitha [2:28]:
I’m glad to be your historic Australian [Katie laughs] first guest. I’m in Canberra, which is the capital of Australia, which is somewhere between Sydney and Melbourne, but no one ever goes there. And it is twenty past 11 at night in winter. It’s absolutely freezing here. I actually went to bed and woke up again to do this interview. [both laugh]
Katie [2:56]:
Oh my gosh.
Tabitha [2:57]:
Staying up till 11 PM, I was like, no way.
Katie [3:00]:
That’s hard to do. Well, first of all, thank you for setting your alarm and getting up to be with us, I’m honored. And I’m excited to talk about this book. I have been so enjoying it. I have been raving about it to people and you know, I’m really curious to hear you describe it to our listeners because when I get going about what the book is about, I’m just all over the map. So, your title is hilarious. It’s called This Is Not a Book about Benedict Cumberbatch, but obviously he is very central to the story. I would love for you to start by sharing a little bit about your midlife fixation with this incredible actor, and when did you decide this might be a good book and a story that’s larger than just your own?
Tabitha [3:48]:
Yeah, it is a book that is really hard to talk about, I have come to realize. I like to say that it is a book about rediscovering your passions, no matter what they are and no matter what age you are, without having to feel like you have to justify them. And that is the story of the book, it’s about how, like you said in your intro, I completely, surprisingly fell under the spell of Benedict Cumberbatch, despite having seen him many hundreds of times before, really. There came a point in my life when I was just... there wasn’t much else going on in it other than child rearing and domestic duties and I found myself mesmerized by his face on the television.
And yeah, it spiraled, you might say, into something that felt completely weird. [Katie laughs] This was not something that I was looking for in my life, at all. I had no sense that this was missing from my life, and I actually didn’t really want it to happen. It felt all-consuming, out of control, and it made me feel ashamed and guilty, and like it was wasting my time, that it was somehow inappropriate for my age and for being a mother. [laughs] The book kind of chronicles my journey into beginning to think, you know, why has this happened to me? Why Benedict Cumberbatch? What does this say about me as a person? What does this say about this time in my life? And over time realizing that it actually might be something else than a problem to solve or a problem to diagnose in that way, and it might actually be a good thing.
Katie [5:48]:
Absolutely. I think you set this up so well. We’re going to explore this notion of shame and how you move through it, why women experience shame when they think about things that they love, or people, or passion, motherhood, identity. But let’s just start also by asking, you know, what causes women to go completely gaga about Benedict? What caused you to be gaga, sort of as a stage-setter?
Tabitha [6:15]:
Well, often it starts with his voice, that’s kind of like a gateway drug, [both laugh] like a jaguar trapped in a cello is how he was once famously described by a British critic. Then it’s... He is a very unusual-looking person; he would freely admit to this. And I think part of the appeal is in that he’s not your kind of typically handsome stud. And if you can see what is attractive in him, that says something about you. [laughs] It seems that it’s a reflection in the eye of the beholder, that you’re someone that can see beyond the merely superficial to something more ineffable about him, which is that he is charming, and kind, and funny and smart and an amazing actor, obviously, that goes without saying. And then the other, you know, component is that he often plays these really prickly, difficult characters, so then there’s this interesting tension between who he is as this person, this kind, lovely person, and these difficult characters, and that creates a kind of erotic frisson, I think. [laughs]
Katie [7:38]:
The sense that perhaps you have an insight into what really makes him tick versus the way he presents. Is that part of it?
Tabitha [7:45]:
I think it makes him more complex. I think it’s kind of that ironic bad boy thing that, you know, you can see the vulnerability in a way that the rest of the world might not. That’s the interaction between who he is as a person and his characters, and it’s a rich text.
Katie [8:04]:
No, absolutely. When you just said all those words, I remember in my mind’s eye I’m seeing him when I first saw him on screen in The Imitation Game, and I was like, who is this man? Because he does have a very arresting face. And in reading your book, when you’re talking, you have actually a very hilarious... This book is rich with the exploration of sort of deep topics, the early lonely days of motherhood, loss of identity, and the taboo of pleasure. But it’s also so screamingly funny, and you have a mention where you talk about your fear of winding up what you call “the club for not traditionally good looking yet extremely attractive celebrities anonymous meeting,” and you’re afraid you’re going to be stuck next to a Steve Buscemi fan and I was like, oh my god, I was cackling. And then it reminded me that when I was younger, I was kind of obsessed with Ric Ocasek, and he too has that kind of I don’t know, I can't speak French but the jolie laide, the so ugly you’re attractive, quality to him. And your book has so much wonderful and funny wordplay too. You’re talking about how extreme fans are called what? What do they go by?
Tabitha [9:24]:
Oh, can I say that?
Katie [9:24]:
Of course!
Tabitha [9:25]:
[laughs] Cumberbitches.
Katie [9:28]:
Cumberbitches. [laughs]
Tabitha [9:29]:
Cumberbitches, yeah.
Katie [9:31]:
And then you wax poetic about seeing his naked Cumberbottom in a movie [laughs] and it’s just so, so many funny things in this book. That’s why I’ve been recommending it to people. You do talk about deeper complicated topics, you’ve already alluded to it on this show, about how you felt this sense of shame about whether or not you should be so obsessed or centering this man in your life. We are heading into a quick commercial break but when we come back, I want to talk about shame.
[Ad break]
Katie [11:28]:
Okay, Tabitha, we’re back from the break. You shared how much you fixated on Benedict Cumberbatch, how it gave you great pleasure, but it also gave you great shame. Walk us through what that looked like and how you moved through it.
Tabitha [11:45]:
So, yeah, as I mentioned, he came to me, he arrived in my life [both laugh] at a point when I was extremely preoccupied with raising two kids, kind of under three at that point, almost under two. As everyone knows, who has been in a similar situation, time is just such a premium at that point in your life, where the concept of free time is a bit of a joke. But you know, every moment you have that is not in service to your family, you know, or to the domestic duties of your life, has to be directed. It feels like that time has to be directed toward something productive and purposive. It has to be exercise, or it has to be contributing in some way to the community, it has to be making you a better person, you should be reading the classics, you should be you know... all these things which we have sold ourselves mean...
Katie [12:54]:
By the way, I’m so delighted, Tabitha, to hear that this is not just an American thing.
Tabitha [12:58]:
Oh yeah!
Katie [12:59]:
I’m like, okay, other people feel this way too! And you know, I grew up in New York City, so sometimes I wonder, like, is this just the go-go-go, hustle culture of New York? It’s interesting to hear that this has been your experience way across the other side of the world in an entirely different environment.
Tabitha [13:21]:
Yeah, and I think it manifests in different ways in different places. But I think that idea of always optimizing, always being your best, most switched-on self, it’s oppressive when it’s not available to you, [chuckles] which when you’re stuck at home with kids, and you do not have the time or the resources or the energy to be fulfilling.
Katie [13:47]:
Yeah, you can't even optimize your outfit [Tabitha laughs] let alone your life. It’s like, what? Motherhood is like a flattening truck when you first go through it.
Tabitha [13:59]:
Oh yeah, absolutely. And all your needs are subservient to those of your kids. I remember wearing my kids in a baby carrier and just holding in sneezes and just being like, I absolutely cannot sneeze because I’ll wake the baby. The extent to which you can, your actual physical body is subservient to the needs of these little creatures is amazing. So, that was the vibe.
And in that setting, the idea that I was dedicating my precious, valuable resource of time to watching endless YouTube videos of Benedict Cumberbatch, Googling images of him, listening to his voice on audiobook, just... I found that incomprehensible to me that that was the choice that I was making at that time. That I would choose something so pointless, so trivial, so silly as to spend my time researching and becoming obsessed with a celebrity at a time when that was the least important thing that I could be doing, quite literally. And that was the source of the guilt, was that I could be doing so many more important things with my time, and I was choosing to do, quite honestly, literally the least important thing. [Katie laughs]
But over time, that is what I realized was the point. The reason that I was doing it and the reason that it was fulfilling to me was that it was just purely for me. There was no way that I could try and swing this to say that it was in any way of benefit to the children, or my husband, or to the washing up. It was something that served no other need than making me feel good.
Katie [15:59]:
I think you just sort of put your finger on it. It serves the need to make you feel good, which is probably the most important reason to be doing it because we need to be happy and engaged with things in our lives in a way that lights us up and gives us energy. So, when did you... Because I know you evolve in the book from feeling guilty and a sense of shame to feeling acceptance. Can you put a finger on when that happened? Was it a particular event, or was it a gradual awakening to the sense of, hey, what I’m interested in is important?
Tabitha [16:38]:
Yeah, I think it happened slowly. The initial feeling of, “this feels good therefore, it must be bad,” took a long time to unpack [laughs] for me to understand why it was that I felt like it was wrong that it felt so good and so personal. And in many ways, I still haven’t properly undone that feeling. I think it’s so ingrained in us, especially as women.
But the thing that really launched the start of that process of changing my perspective was meeting other Cumberbitches online, in real life, and hearing them talk so passionately and joyously about the change that this fandom had brought into their life. And then hearing them say in the same breath, “Oh, but I would never tell anyone. Oh, of course, but it’s actually really embarrassing. Oh, of course, but it’s just silly fangirl behavior.” And hearing other people express those conflicted thoughts made it so much more obvious to me that there’s something wrong here; there’s something wrong that we are stopping ourselves short from fully enjoying this positive feeling because we think that we should feel bad about it.
Katie [18:05]:
Tabitha put this fandom in context. For somebody who has not yet read the book, I was blown away by some of the numbers, by the scale of the passion. Can you put this in context for our listeners? When you talk about Cumberbitches, what are we talking about?
Tabitha [18:22]:
Well, I mean, at the height of his popularity, which has waned because Sherlock is no longer airing new episodes, it was enormous. We’re talking millions of people across the world absolutely dedicated to him. Now, every corner of the internet is seething with Cumberbitches [both laugh] still, and in terms of fan fiction, for example, there are hundreds of thousands of stories based on his work available in fan fiction form.
Katie [19:02]:
And what’s fan fiction for somebody that that term is new to?
Tabitha [19:05]:
Oh my god, all the way, deep dive. So, fan fiction is fiction written by fans. It is stories written by “amateurs” which take a piece of media such as a TV show, or an actor’s life, or a movie, or a book, or a comic, whatever, a piece of pre-existing material like that, and then transforms it in some way through their own storytelling. So, for example, there’s a lot of fan fiction that takes the characters of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson as they’re portrayed in the Sherlock TV series and puts them in new, alternate universes, or puts them together into a relationship, or just gives them new life in a way that doesn’t exist in the original source format.
Katie [20:08]:
Right. And it’s no surprise that this is such a rich corner of the internet with millions of people participating. I think you shared a statistic that the average novelist if could get this level of attention... I’m forgetting what the number is now, but it’s astronomical. The “book sales” of fan fiction it’s just this huge universe of people.
Because people love to be obsessed. We have a long history of obsession, probably dating back to the pyramids; people put those up because they were obsessed with their pharaohs. Beatlemania, Harry Styles is now breaking the internet every time he wears something new. Why do we obsess, and what do you think about the word obsession? And why is there a sense sometimes of shame attached to it? And why is there this sort of encouragement to outgrow these obsessions and move on?
Tabitha [21:05]:
I think we....
Katie [21:06]:
I’m asking you to unpack a lot; that was a very big question. [both laugh]
Tabitha [21:11]:
We’ve done fan fiction; let’s move on. I think the reason we obsess about things is it feels really good. I think, you’d have to talk to the Egyptians [both laugh], but to throw yourself headfirst into something and to just give it your everything is wonderful. It feels joyful, and I think it also, it hits that communal pleasure center that humans seem to be hard-wired to have. That you get from church, or you get from dancing, or you get from any kind of mass, communal experience, where you’re all enjoying the same thing or experiencing the same thing together. And that now can happen online in a way that makes it able to extend far beyond the reaches of previous fandom experiences.
And I think to get to your next point about why we are ashamed about obsessions, is I think that it’s not evenly doled out, that sense of shame. And I go into that in the book. That it’s heavily gendered, I believe, in a way that men are not socialized in the same way to have that sense of their obsession, or their passion, or even their hobby, whatever you want to call it, as being something that is a waste of time. If you look at sports fandom, for example, that is something that we just culturally have decided is so normal and so acceptable that I don’t think many sports fans would feel bad about the amount of time they invest in watching sports or thinking about sports or talking with other people about sports. Whereas a boyband fan or a Cumberbitch, for example, can end up tying themselves in knots trying to justify it as a use of their time. I think that just comes down to the fact that women’s attention is encouraged to be directed toward other things once we leave adolescence, namely caring responsibilities and domestic responsibilities, in a way that does not happen for men.
Katie [23:54]:
Yeah. When you talk about sports fandom, I live in the US, I’m picturing... When you talked about a communal experience, I have an image in my mind of a stadium full of football fans, everyone’s waving and screaming, and their faces are painted in colors. I know across the globe, people maybe have soccer or rugby where they’re doing the same thing, and you know, I wouldn’t say no one thinks that’s weird, [both laugh] I would put myself in the category of people who is not generally face painting and waving. But I agree, there has been an acceptance that to be a raving sports fan is completely acceptable. And there seems to be an acceptance that a teen girl who is also in an arena screaming about a boyband, that’s acceptable. But somehow when you get to be a woman, somehow, it’s kind of ridiculous or worse like, you’re defective.
And I agree that there’s this gender notion that women are not allowed to have those sorts of interests. You have some wonderful conversations and interviews in the book where you talk to these amazing women who are so passionate, and some do have a sense of embarrassment or shame. I think it’s sort of connected to that taboo of pleasure. I want to ask you about a direct quote in your book. You say when you’re talking about feeling shameful about your love of Benedict, and you keep it hidden away, you realize, “It’s not a clever trick to keep your inner world invisible from the outside world; it’s a trap. It splits you and your real self, and your pretend self in two.” Do you feel like getting to midlife has in any way changed your ability to reconcile these two selves, or is that still a work in progress?
Tabitha [25:46]:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think that that is, for me, the biggest outcome of the book, personally, is that sense of feeling confident to just display my inner workings to the outside world in the same way that those football fans are. Just the confidence to wear some silly piece of Benedict Cumberbatch memorabilia, a badge, or a hoodie, or whatever, [laughs] just makes me feel like this is a side of myself that I am presenting to the world that allows people to see that I am more than how I might look to them on the outside, at face value. And I think that one of the women that I speak to in the book uses the term "intact," and that becoming a Benedict Cumberbatch fan made her feel like a more intact person. And I love that expression because I think that as women, in the stage entering middle age, we are mothers and we are professionals or employees, and we are daughters and sisters, and neighbors, and wives and we occupy all these different roles... cleaners, in our lives.
Katie [27:08]:
Keep going, there are more roles Tabitha. There are far more roles. [both laugh]
Tabitha [27:13]:
Yeah. We are split into all these different roles, but none of them represent who we are. None of them encompass how we actually feel on the inside. So, to be able to demonstrate some part of you that means something to you and that you have chosen for yourself as being meaningful and being able to display that on top of all those other roles that you occupy makes you feel more complete. It makes you feel less in pieces.
Katie [27:50]:
I love this notion of being intact and not being in pieces and sort of pulling it all together, displaying your inner workings to the outside world. How you talked, you wrote a book, so you did this in a very big way, a very grand gesture. You do it in smaller ways where you have conversations, and you wear clothing that may help represent your interest. Do you have any advice from either yourself and your own lived experience or from your interviews that you would share with a listener who is thinking, how do I display my inner workings to the outside world? Where do I begin? How do I get going? How do I manifest this?
Tabitha [28:32]:
Yeah, I think it was very important in the book to not try and be prescriptive about it. I don’t want readers to feel bad. I feel like we already have enough that we feel bad about ourselves. And that sense of if you feel like, “Oh, well, I don’t have anything. I don’t have an obsession, there’s nothing I’m passionate about that makes me want to slap their face on a hoodie,” that’s completely fine and normal.
I think the first step is to just open up yourself to the idea that such a capacity for these kinds of feelings does still continue to exist within you. And if you felt that way before, maybe when you were reading Teen Beat, it’s possible for you to feel that way again about something else or someone else and to have that same pleasurable experience as you might have previously. And once you’ve opened yourself up to the possibility that you have that capacity, just be curious about everything you engage with, and if something you encounter gives you that flicker of interest, then don’t shut it down. Don’t extinguish it because it seems age-inappropriate, embarrassing, silly, or a waste of your time. Nourish it and fan the flames in such a way that, over time, it could end up becoming this fulfilling passion or this fulfilling kind of identity-generating mechanism.
Katie [30:15]:
Yes, just start with a flicker, I love that.
Tabitha [30:18]:
Exactly. And I think this just comes down to not everyone is up for wearing their insides on their outsides. And that’s completely natural. But I think a good way to think about it is just to allow it to occupy a part of your mind. Our minds are so taken up with the to-do lists and all the stuff of everyday life. If you just allow a little bit of trivial, silly, personal pleasure to colonize a part of that mental space, you’ll get the same satisfaction, there’s more going on in here than it might seem from the outside.
Katie [31:06]:
You are reminding me of what Eve Rodsky, who is the author of Fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, said when she was a guest on this show. She said that unicorn space is permission to be interested in your own life. And I know that Eve is referenced in your book, I know that she gave one of the cover quotes for your book. Unicorn space, beyond permission to be interested in your own life, it’s this creative, deep engagement with something that lights you up and that is a passion, and that’s of interest, simply for the sake of engaging with something that you’re passionate in, with no other purpose, truly.
We talked on the show that podcasting was my unicorn space; I love having conversations with women, I love sharing their stories. And my podcast has now become a bit of a job. Not in a negative way, but I have sponsors, I have obligations, and I’m looking to grow it. Benedict Cumberbatch was your unicorn space for a while and your passion. Has turning this into a book diluted any of the pleasure?
Tabitha [32:17]:
No, not in that way. I absolutely understand what you’re saying with the podcast but writing for me, writing the book was nothing but a joy, to be honest. And being able to parlay that obsession into a creative project was so wonderful, and it’s something that so many of the women I spoke to did. That you have so much energy around your passion that it ends up spilling over into creative practice or into communal spaces and sharing that with other fans.
In terms of my feelings for Benedict Cumberbatch himself, though... [Katie laughs] That’s another story which is, that the events I describe in the book did occur about 6 years ago for me now. So, just as with all loves, the passion, the intense passion, has died down to just a kind of lovely adoration, and admiration, and I will never not love him. But that kind of all-consuming, crazy, thunderbolt and lightning love that you have at the start of a relationship [both laugh] has died down.
Katie [33:42]:
It does ebb a little bit. So, in a few minutes, we’re going to be needing to wrap, but there’s so much I would want to ask you about, there are so many questions I’m sure that listeners have. You talk in the book about your husband and his reaction to this, you share a little bit about your children. There’s wonderful information about fandom in general, its history, sexism as it relates to obsession, sexism in the music industry, and the way that women are allowed to tell their stories. You have interesting information about Taylor Swift not getting reviewed in magazines, the book is just bursting with so much content that we can’t cover. But I do not want to move into our speed round without asking, have you figured out if Benedict Cumberbatch knows this book exists?
Tabitha [34:30]:
So, as of last weekend, yes, I can confidently say he knows it exists. Because a Cumberbitch in the UK, someone I don’t know, took this book to an event that he was appearing at for him to sign, and he did. And he wrote an amazing message, a very Cumberbatchian message, [both laugh] he says that this was the first he had heard of the book, which was not through lack of trying.
Katie [35:01]:
[laughs] When you say *trying* do you mean stalking Tabitha? Or trying?
Tabitha [35:08]:
No, absolutely not, I do not advocate that. No, my publicist, my agent, the UK publisher, everyone was trying to get him a copy of this book, [laughs] even just out of politeness to show him.
Katie [35:22]:
Of course! I love it, I love it.
Tabitha [35:24]:
But he seemed, through his comment, he was very amused and said that he wrote, could he borrow it after the reader had finished? Which was, you know, promising. But I mean, the thought of him reading it just makes me want to die.
Katie [35:41]:
[laughs] Oh my gosh. I bet he would appreciate it. He just seems self-aware and funny and like a good sport. That’s my impression of him. Not being a Cumberbitch myself, but I do think that he would appreciate and enjoy it. Anyone would appreciate and enjoy your writing and thinking. As I said, it is my husband’s least favorite kind of book, the kind that I will not shut up about and the kind that I will not stop shaking the bed in laughter about. So, I recommend, This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch, to anyone, even if you’re like, I can barely say Benedict Cumberbatch.
So, Tabitha, let’s move into our speed round. I know it is late in Australia, we’ve had a lot of your time, and I want not to take too much more of it. So, these is just quick one- or two-word answers. You ready?
Tabitha [36:35]:
I’m ready.
Katie [36:36]:
Okay. Writing This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch, was _____.
Tabitha [36:41]
Life changing.
Katie [36:42]:
Nice. Peak favorite Benedict Cumberbatch movie or TV show?
Tabitha [36:47]:
Oh, Patrick Melrose.
Katie [36:49]:
I would love to see Benedict Cumberbatch star in this book or movie: _____?
Tabitha [36:54]:
Oh... My book? [laughs]
Katie [36:57]
Yes! Yes, let’s make that happen. If my love of Benedict Cumberbatch ever wanes, you might find me Googling this celebrity: _____.
Tabitha [37:08]:
Harry Styles. Me and everyone else.
Katie [37:10]:
Ugh, yes, with you. This is a book about joy. What other than Benedict Cumberbatch gives you joy?
Tabitha [37:19]:
My dogs.
Katie [37:20]:
And in your book, Sherry, a young fan says, “There is no age limit on liking things.” What is a surprising new thing that’s giving you joy today?
Tabitha [37:32]:
I have... Is it really supposed to just be one- or two-word answers?
Katie [37:37]:
I’m going to let you have more. Go for it.
Tabitha [37:41]:
Dancing with the lights on. Like, unembarrassed dancing in public outside of the lounge room. I have rediscovered.
Katie [37:51]:
I love that. Okay, finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, I feel _____.
Tabitha [38:00]:
Intact. Can I go with intact? The person from the book that gave that amazing answer, and I can just steal it? [laughs]
Katie [38:06]:
Yes! Yes. Intact. That’s something we’re all shooting for. Perfect note to end on. Thank you, Tabitha. This has been such a delight and a total pleasure. How can our listeners find you, follow your writing and find this marvelous, fabulous, witty, whimsical, heartfelt, joy of a book?
Tabitha [38:25]:
Well, I’m @TabithaCarvan on Twitter and Instagram and tabithacarvan.com has got all my writing and book stuff. But the book is just available at all good booksellers everywhere.
Katie [38:38]:
Perfect, thank you so much, Tabitha.
Tabitha [38:40]:
Thank you!
Katie [38:41]:
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology.
Join me next Monday when Sally Mueller, of buzzy menopause brand, Womaness, shares how the brand is taking big box retailers by storm, first landing on the shelves of target and now as the first menopause brand to be stocked at Ulta Beauty.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini, who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time, and until then: age boldly, beauties.